TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

(start at 00:00:43)

THERAPIST: Hi. Come on in.

CLIENT: Sorry I'm late.

THERAPIST: Come in. You know what? I realized, [one quick matter on] (ph) housekeeping. So next week I give out statements.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So we still haven't decided on what the fee was. I was starting to make up the statements.

CLIENT: Oh, okay.

THERAPIST: We still haven't talked about that.

CLIENT: I thought eighty five?

THERAPIST: That's fine. Normally, I think I had said that I normally when people are working That's fine. We're meeting twice a week and so I understand that's pretty costly. Eight five will be more than fine.

CLIENT: Okay. And then you'll just send the bill.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'll e-mail it to you.

CLIENT: Oh, e-mail it to me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And then I can just bring you in a check?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. I usually just ask people to pay within a couple of weeks of the statements.

CLIENT: Okay. That should work out fine.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: (sigh) I feel like I haven't seen you in so long. (laughs)

THERAPIST: We didn't see each other on Monday.

CLIENT: No. Oh which reminds me. This coming Monday I am going to be in Ohio and like I won't be back in time. So I just don't want to like take a chance of missing and not being able to be here. So I'll just come next Thursday. [00:02:00]

THERAPIST: Next Thursday? Okay.

CLIENT: Okay. (sigh) It's been kind of a long week. I'm trying to think. So we went to court last week.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. I haven't seen you since then.

CLIENT: He got arraigned on the charges and then the trial starts on March 22nd. So hopefully between now and then we can, I guess the goal is to be able to get the charges dismissed. So hopefully, but we'll see. Kevin was here all weekend and he was very detached on Friday, well Thursday night, and I thought, "Okay, well that seems pretty normal because we're going to court."

And then after court we sort of talked and then he kind of just sort of like disappeared almost. Just he was there physically, but he just sort of went away. And eventually, I guess it was early Saturday morning, we were talking and I think he just is really nervous about everything going on. [00:03:18]

And he keeps saying like he doesn't really know if we're going to be able to, I guess, make things work. And he keeps saying that he's trying to sort of keep everything that's happening legally separate and not really integrate our relationship into all that stuff.

But I'm not sure. I'm feeling a little confused as to what he wants. And I don't even think he probably really knows right now because he'll be really distant. And then he says, "Like I don't want to fall back into a pattern that we had before. I want, you know, to start over and make things, you know, better," on the one hand.

But then on the other hand, you know, like Saturday and Sunday when we were together we went out and we had a good time and we were talking. And it was sort of not completely back to normal, but in a way it was. [00:04:24]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I feel like how do we completely keep things separate and not really fall back into a pattern and like start over? But he keeps saying like, "Oh we can't start over until, you know, after all the legal stuff is taken care of." And I'm just like So I don't even know what is happening right now.

And he keeps saying like he wants to still see me and like travel back and forth and all this other stuff. So I'm sort of just confused as to what he, I guess, what his feelings are about everything.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I know that he, you know, falling back into a pattern of, you know, not talking and not being able to communicate correctly and fighting, is definitely not where we want to go. But at the same time it's like if you're trying to keep it separate and then you want to start over, should we be seeing each other now? But he doesn't want to break up. So I'm sort of like just going with it at the moment. (laughs) [00:05:39]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And not really sure what to do. I mean I tried talking to him and stuff, but he just keeps saying, "I don't know."

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I guess, you know, he doesn't know. And maybe he just needs some time to sort of figure that out, I guess. And he's just trying to I think he's just trying really hard to not fall back into a pattern of what we did before. And so his way of doing that is whatever it is that he's doing now. (laughs) I don't know.

But I'm supposed to be going there this weekend. I leave tonight. And, you know, I was feeling nervous because I didn't really want the weekend to kind of go how last weekend went where he was just completely detached and almost didn't even talk to me for all of, you know, most of Friday. And it was just very awkward. [00:06:43]

And he knew that I felt really uncomfortable about it. And I sort of just said, you know, "I just don't really want that to keep happening if that's how it's going to be every time we see each other. You now, maybe it's better if we just push back and we don't really spend too much time together."

So he said he's nervous too about this weekend. But he also said like, "Every time we get nervous we can't just be scared and not do anything." Like if we talk about it or something then maybe it will make it a little bit better.

THERAPIST: Do you know why he wants to keep sort of the legal, you know, what's going legally, from other things in your relationship?

CLIENT: I think he feels like, I guess, what happened, he just keeps saying, "That doesn't happen in most relationships. Most people don't have this happen. Like this doesn't happen all the time. Like what kind of relationship is this? If this is happening, is it even a good relationship?" [00:07:54]

And I guess he's like, "I can't focus on putting back together our relationship until I can focus on, until after I'm done focusing on dealing with the whole legal stuff. But now that the arraignment's over we sort of have two months where we're just kind of sitting in limbo. I mean, we can't do anything.

We'll talk to our lawyers when we have to, but there's not really a whole lot that we can really do. And I don't want to think that like we're just wasting the next two months sort of not moving forward and not really doing anything. You know, I'm coming here and, you know, hopefully working stuff out. And I was kind of hoping that it would all sort of coincide. [00:08:53]

You know, like after it happened then, yes, okay we're going to fix it and we're sort of going to move on as we go. And, you know, if he wants to start over, which in my opinion I don't think that you really can completely start over. Once you sort of have a history with somebody you can't start from the very beginning.

I mean you can go back and sort of fix the things that went wrong. But in my mind it's sort of like, "Why isn't that happening now?" Like, "Why aren't we fixing it now and working on how we communicate and all that other stuff now?" Like, "What's the point of waiting until later on?"

THERAPIST: Well it sounds like he's really scared about the implications of this happening in your relationship and he doesn't know what to do with it.

CLIENT: Yeah, he's really nervous about having to tell his job and how that could affect, you know, basically how it's all going to affect his career and stuff like that down the line. So I think he's really having a hard time sort of focusing on our relationship right now and like fixing it because he's too concerned about what's going to happen with his career. [00:10:14]

And I think once, you know, that gets figured out then he'll be able to better focus. So, you know, I said to him, "We agreed that we were going to stay together and work through this together. So if it's going to take a little time, it's obviously going to take a little time. You know, nothing is going to change overnight. We're not just all of a sudden going to become different people and everything is going to work out.

"But I don't want to sort of be in limbo in this relationship for a long period of time. You know, like if March 22nd comes and then we have to go back to court again in two or three months, like it's just dragging this our. And right now we're not doing anything to fix our relationship."

And, you know, I know that I need to work on myself personally but I can do that without being in limbo and sort of in this weird gray area of having a relationship with him. Because he just, I don't even know. Like there's things like he won't always say that he misses me. You know? [00:11:36]

And I said something to him about it. And he's like, "Well it's not that I don't but it's sort of my way of keeping things separate." But like he will say it or he will say that he loves me, or then he won't. It's becoming very hit or miss, I guess.

So, and like I don't know what to say to him sometimes. Like what's appropriate to talk about or anything like that. And I guess as time goes on it will sort of be a little bit easier. But right now it's just a very awkward sort of situation.

THERAPIST: When he says, you know, "This isn't normal. This doesn't happen in most relationships," how do you feel?

CLIENT: I understand. I know that it doesn't. And when it does it's something probably has to happen. But at the same time I've tried to say to him, "I think it happens." I know that it happens a lot more than people think. And I know that when it's happening to you it's the end of the world. [00:12:49]

And, you know, it's really bad but, you know, I try to think like, well this is not like an isolated (ph) You know, it's not like it's never happened before in the entire world, like we're the only people that this has happened to and we can't move on from this.

And, you know, so I feel like well it happened, we're fixing it. It sucks that it had to happen. Something so dramatic and so bad for us to finally like the light bulb to go off. But at the same time, you know, if we're going to stick through it then we should probably be sort of working on something.

And I said to him last week like, "I'll still go to court and I'm not going to press charges and I'm not going to do anything. And we can just sort of not see each other and just work on ourselves and revisit the situation at another time." [00:13:58]

Then he sort of got upset and he's like, "Are you breaking up with me?" You know, "What are you saying?" And like, "Well, no, but if that would make it easier for you." Because he seems to be the only one that's struggling with keeping it two separate things. I feel like we should be working on it now, but he doesn't see it that way.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So it's sort of we have differences of opinions. But, you know, I'm not the one who is facing legal charges either. I mean, maybe if I was and, you know, the positions were flipped, I may feel the same way as he, like I can't focus on anything else. But, you know, whether or not I'm going to have my career that I've worked almost twenty years on and, you know, all this other stuff.

So I'm trying to see it from his point of view and, you know, be more sympathetic than I guess empathetic in taking on his pain and depression and stuff like that. [00:15:01]

THERAPIST: Is he feeling depressed now?

CLIENT: Yeah. He said this morning he feels like he just wakes up depressed and he just kind of, you know, goes about his day and isn't really overly excited about anything. And when we were talking I said, you know, I usually ask him like how he's feeling. And he just says, you know, "Okay." And, you know, "He's like 'good' isn't really an option right now, but I'm okay I guess."

But he said this morning he's just been feeling tired. And he's like, "I feel like I'm just waking up emotionally drained every day and that's probably why I'm so tired all the time."

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: It very well could be. So I'm hoping that he finds a therapist or something to see down there to just to talk and sort of get whatever he's feeling off his chest. Because he's definitely holding on to a lot. [00:16:06]

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Does he want to see a therapist down there?

CLIENT: Yeah. He keeps saying he does, but then I feel like sometimes by the time he gets home from work he's too, I don't know, I guess depressed to feel like looking for someone. And I don't want to push it, but at the same time, you know, I keep asking him like, "You really need to do something. You really need to go see someone soon."

And he's like, "I know, I know, I know.' And, "I can't do it at work because they block all the websites. I have to do it when I get home," and, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." So I don't know if he's making excuses or not, but I keep asking him, you know like, and saying, "You really need to go. You really need to go." And he says he wants to but a matter of actually going, I guess.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I'm feeling a little uneasy about the situation. And then my Mom, of course she always, (sigh) it's always something else with her. Thursday night she texted me and said, I don't even know what. Something about, "I hope everything goes well tomorrow." And then Friday morning she texted me, or Saturday morning she texted me and said, "I hope everything went well yesterday." [00:17:33]

And then Sunday she texted me because she was dropping off my goddaughter's gifts. And she said, you know, "I'm going to drop off Madison's (ph) gifts. What do you want me to say?" And I said, "Well, you don't really have to say anything nor do you have to drop the gifts off." And she said, "Oh well you won't be home for a while so I'll just do it and we're going that way."

So she dropped them off and then my friend who is no longer talking to me because I didn't make it down for my goddaughter's third birthday party, and then she stopped talking to me. So it was her birthday presents from November and her Christmas presents. She just texted me and said, you know, "Thank you. I got the gifts."

And then my Mom texted me again on Monday. So she's like reaching out but she said, "Oh, I'm going to send a box of stuff that you left here and some stuff that Duffy had left," the dog, "and I thought maybe you would want them. And then I'll send back your suitcase of clothes." Which it's like a huge fifty pound suitcase of clothes. [00:18:49]

And she said, "I think you'll probably need them since you won't be back for a while." And I just texted her, you know, "Thanks for sending the box." And, you know, "You don't need to send the suitcase. I'll come and get it at some point." And she just said, "No problem." And I think in there it was, you know, "I really miss you," and whatever.

But I don't know if she's sort of feeling like I don't know how she's feeling. And I know, obviously, she's trying to reach out. But I still feel like I should be standing, you know, putting my foot down. And not, like I'm not apologizing to her. You know, she can text me and say whatever she wants, but that's not going to change the fact that she hasn't been supportive at all and she can't be. And that I don't feel like I can talk to her. [00:19:49]

And, you know, in the past she's tried to say things and she's been nice and I've sort of given in and went back to, you know, it sort of just went back to the way it was before. And then she just keeps doing the same thing. And I don't want to give in and I don't want to just ignore the fact that she's been doing all this stuff.

Whether she texts me and says how much she misses me or whatever. You know, I'm sure she does and that's fine. But at the same time it's like, if she really misses me then why can't she just pick up the phone and call too. She always just text messages and sends me messages.

If it mattered that much to her then why wouldn't she just pick up the phone and call and leave me a voice-mail if I don't answer or just take that chance. Instead she just sends me a text message because it's easier.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I feel like, yeah, she's trying to be nice but it's also sort of just a cop out because she's just texting. [00:20:53]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: You know, if she sincerely cared about wanting to change stuff then I feel like she should be calling me and making a verbal effort and not just sending a text message. It's much easier to do that rather than actually call somebody.

THERAPIST: It sounds like both with your Mom and your boyfriend there are similar frustrations. That their actions are not coordinating on concurrent with what they are saying.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so I feel like confused and just sort of I don't really know how I should be acting.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And what I should be doing. And I definitely, with my Mom at least, you know, I feel a little bit more like I know which way I want to go with her. And then I don't want to go back into having the same crazy relationship and the yelling and the drama and, you know, I've already made that decision. [00:22:01]

And it's sort of a hard decision to make, but I can't continue to let her control my life and, you know, blow everything up when, you know, I need her during important times. And so I think as hard as it may be, as she keeps sort of text messaging me or whatever, I just have to I guess stay strong and not sort of just let her back in like I would normally do.

But, you know, with my boyfriend I don't know. Like I want to work on things and I want to make them better, but I just, what he says and what he does are sometimes two totally different things. So then I'm not sure what I should be doing.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And it is becoming a little frustrating and, you know, I don't know. Like even when I try to talk to him, it's sort of he just says the same thing all the time about trying to keep everything separate and all that. But I don't know if I need to sort of dig a little deeper and just say like, "I'm not sure if this is going to work." Or, "I'm not sure if this is, you know, this sort of approach is okay for the time being." You know? [00:23:25]

It's not going to Like if he doesn't know He doesn't think or he doesn't know, I guess, is what he's saying, you know, if he can get over everything that's happened. And that's fine. But I feel like he's also not really trying to figure that out right now.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: He's sort of just being depressed and sort of wallowing his own self pity. Which for a certain period of time I guess everyone's allowed to do that. But at some point he needs to kind of do something about it and make an effort on his part to sort of figure out his feelings and what he wants and all that stuff.

Because I care about him and I love him but I can't wait around forever to figure out, you know, if this is going to work or not.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So it's sort of frustrating. I kind of just want him to (laughs) do something. But I don't want to be pushy. And, you know, I guess everyone has to do it on their own time. [00:24:33]

You know, I know years ago that I probably should be here in this room and I just never did. So I can't, you know, point fingers at him and say, "Like you need to start doing something," when it took me years before I finally decided that I needed to come.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But I just don't like being in this sort of limbo. (sigh)

THERAPIST: Well it sounds like what happened scared him. And it didn't simply scare him in terms of, you know, possible impact of his future. But as you said, he was scared that he was capable of that. That he saw something in him that scared him.

CLIENT: Yeah. He says, "I just didn't know that I had such anger and such feelings inside of me," when he thought that he had sort of gotten over them. And I think that we've had a few conversations where he sort of has looked back and said, you know, "Oh well, there were some red flags over the years that, you know, I'm now seeing that maybe have indicated that I didn't quite get over everything that had happened before. And, you know, I should've done something about it." [00:25:59]

But he I guess thought after such a long period of time that he was just bitter and not really, you know and over things. But, you know, now I think he realizes that he wasn't.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And the fact that he still feels that way is sort of, I guess, scary to him.

THERAPIST: Mm. Well what happened before? Before when?

CLIENT: So I guess it was six, maybe seven years ago, he dated a girl when he was living in Maine. And she apparently was very untrusting and very kind of controlling and didn't, you know, always felt like he was doing something and was going to hurt her emotionally. And where she would make him open up his e-mail and she would read his e-mail. And she would read his text messages. [00:27:06]

And if he mentioned another woman, whether she was married, single, he knew her really or didn't know her, she would freak out. And just, you know, he's like, "I feel like she just emotionally abused me." And there was a lot of different, you know, she said a lot of things to him that were nasty and mean and condescending. Telling him that he was, you know, a terrible person and all kinds of stuff.

And he's like, she used to take all kinds of, like I think she was on anti-anxiety medicine. He said she was taking Xanax and all kinds of stuff. And then she would go off of it and then she'd go back on it. And then I think there was just a lot of emotional turmoil that happened. And I think it was only like two years or two and a half years that they were together.

And eventually he said he just was taking it and taking it and taking, and he thought he could help her and fix her. And, you know, it came to the point where he just couldn't do it anymore and like kicked her out. But I don't think he ever really got over that whole situation. [00:28:19]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Because he still sort of talks about her in a very bitter way and how she, you know, did so many things to him and all that stuff. So I kind of, you know, it seemed to me at first like he really wasn't over it. But I didn't realize that it was as bad as it was and he had so much anger. And he didn't realize it either.

So I guess realizing it is a positive thing. But now he sort of needs to get some sort of help with, you know, dealing with all of the emotions and feelings that he sort of has that are related to that. So that, you know, I guess it doesn't come up again.

And I think part of him is scared. Like, "What if that happens again. What if the same thing happens between him and I that happened a month ago." What if we think everything is fine and then it happens. And I'm like, well, you can't really live in a mode of "what ifs," because if you just always think, "What if it's going to happen again." and, "What if, what if, what if," then you're never going to do anything. [00:29:32]

You're just continuously going to be sort of scared about how everything happens. And, you know, you sort of take that chance but you realize, you know, I sort of do things to I guess help your own mental status and get your own feelings out so that it doesn't happen again.

But you know it's not to say, who knows? We didn't know it was going to happen at all the first time.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: You know, so we're doing everything we can to try and make sure that it doesn't happen again. You don't normally expect that. It's not something that you can predict and say like, "This is going to happen today."

THERAPIST: Except you don't feel like he's doing everything he can.

CLIENT: I don't. I don't. I feel like he really needs to see somebody about it. And I've sort of felt that way. He has a really bad back. So when he was younger he was working for a company or something before he went in the military. And a refrigerator had fallen on his back. So he just is in constant pain all the time. [00:30:44]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And he doesn't want to take any medication for it. And he does all this stuff. But, you know, in the military, if he does go to the doctors too much and they say that he has to have spinal fusion or something like that, then he has to have a waiver. And it kind of messes with his career a little bit.

So he's always been nervous to do something. But he's always complaining like, "My back hurts, my back hurts, my back hurts." And to me I'm like, "Well if it hurts so much then go to the doctor or go somewhere." And you know like, "Do the stretches that you were given to do by your physical therapist or by your doctor from before. Or go see a different doctor. See if you can get the injections or like do something instead of just continuously complaining about it." [00:31:43]

And I said something sort of in trying to be nice about it but, you know, trying to be a little bit firm.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And a few months ago, and it sort of resulted in an argument where, you know, he was like, he was upset because I was being, I guess, not really mean but not necessarily supportive or whatever.

And I'm just like, "But you're always complaining and you're never doing anything about it. And it's frustrating when someone's on the other end and all they hear you do is complain. And, you know, I can see you in pain and you're visibly like you can't walk sometimes. But you're not really doing anything or trying anything to help." So I sort of feel like the same thing -

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: where he's saying that he needs to do something and he doesn't want it to be this way, but he's not really doing anything right now.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It's sort of frustrating me.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Because he (inaudible at 00:32:53).

CLIENT: Yeah, it's just like he complains about stuff but then he doesn't do anything to like change it. So I'm just like, you know, if you want to fix something then you should probably put some effort into making some sort of change no matter what you have to do. So I kind of gave up on asking questions or giving, you know, about his back.

It was sort of like I just stopped asking questions or stopped asking what he could do, because he said he just felt like I was being too badgering.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: But I was, in my opinion, I just felt like I was just asking him questions like, "Well, what can you do? Where can you go?" You know, "What are your options?" And he's like, "I just feel like you're being pushy."

And I was like, "Okay. I'm sorry." So I haven't really pressed the whole going to see a therapist subject at the moment. But every once in a while I kind of make a comment about it. And you know, he's like, "I know, I know, I know," but sort of says the same thing about his back. So it's kind of becoming frustrating. [00:34:06]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I don't want to just ignore it, but I guess he just needs to do it on his own time or whatever he wants. I mean, I don't like being told what to do either.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But sometimes I feel like I don't really complain all the time without doing something about it.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So maybe that's just the way my Mom was with me. Like, "Don't complain about it." And so that's sort of how I feel about stuff.

THERAPIST: Did she say that often?

CLIENT: Yes and no. I mean she definitely wasn't like the very lovey kind of person. She was more of a tough love kind of person. So I guess that's probably a little bit where I get it from.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I sort of was just forced to get over stuff or deal with it and not have to You know, there wasn't like very big emotional conversations. It was sort of just like, "Suck it up and move on," kind of thing. [00:35:21]

So part of me, I guess that's part of my mentality where I just sort of end up sucking things up and moving on and not really, either not saying anything or, you know, just letting people walk all over me and not actually saying like, "No," or whatever. I just kind of let it happen.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So the people I work for I usually let them I feel like probably walk all over me with, you know, watching the kids and always being home and everything. But actually yesterday they asked me to watch the kids at night and I had planned to go to a yoga class. And they always ask me like the morning of if they can go out that night.

And it's frustrated me ever since I started. And I finally got the courage to say to her yesterday like, "I don't mind if you go out but I would really appreciate it if you would give me more than, you know, like a twelve hour heads up. Because I do have things that I would like to do at night when you get home from work considering I'm the one that's home all day with the kids." [00:36:35]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: You know Wednesdays are half days at school in Wallingford (ph) so they get out of school at noon. So I have them from noon until six or seven when their parents get home.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And I finally just said, you know, like, "If you're going to go out that's fine, but I need you to tell me beforehand not the morning of."

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And that was kind of a big deal for me because I am usually just when it comes to them or a lot of people I'm just like, "Okay, okay, okay, whatever." And I'll probably complain about it or get annoyed and then just don't really say anything to them.

So finally saying something to her and trying to, you know, convey it in a nice sort of way. Like, "If you can just give me a little bit of a heads up." And she was understanding about it. And she was like, "I'm sorry. I get that. We'll try and, you know, plan a little bit better."

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So to me that was like a big deal. (laugh)

THERAPIST: [Do you feel okay?] (ph)

CLIENT: Yeah. It was like she Because I think sometimes I'm always so afraid that people are going to be mad or she's going to be upset with me. And so I don't want to say anything to really make waves. And I would just sort of let them do whatever they wanted. And saying something and her just saying, "Oh, no I understand. That's totally fine," was kind of a relief for me. [00:37:58]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Because I didn't expect it. I sort of expected her to be annoyed. But she wasn't and she totally understood. And I think she does understand that I have a lot on my plate right now. So if they could be a little bit less, I don't know, less pushy. Or not really pushy, but if they could be a little bit more, you know, I don't know what the word would be. I'm blanking on it. But considering my time, I guess, instead of always just considering theirs.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And you know, because they will come home from work whenever they want to. And they only have an hour or two with the kids. And then sometimes they go out. And sometimes one has a meeting and they leave anyway.

So, you know, it's fine but I would rather them be able say things. So they did. I feel pretty good that she wasn't annoyed and I was able to say, "No." [00:39:00]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Plus I also feel like at this point I've pretty much just lived to always be there. I'm always at the house, always do stuff with kids. And, you know, I wasn't there on the weekends a lot when Kevin was living in Maine because it was only a three hour drive so I could leave. But now that he is living so far away I can't fly there every weekend.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And, you know, when I was there on the weekends I was always doing stuff with them and always being with them. And I'm like, "I can't be here all the time because it's making me nuts." You know?

THERAPIST: What is your agreement with them in terms of how much you work?

CLIENT: Technically I only work after school Monday through Friday. Like I pick the kids up from school Monday through Friday and then if one of them has to She always leaves for work at 7:20 but he usually takes the kids to school. But if he has to go in early or something then I'll take the kids to school. [00:39:54]

So that's sort of the agreement. And then I have the weekends to myself and they'll go out like once or twice during the week. And that's fine. But it sort of got to the point where, you know, if I was there on the weekends they were like, "Oh, well we're just going to run to the store. Would you mind watching the kids?" Or, "Oh we're just going to for a walk. Would you mind watching the kids?" And, "Since you're home," sort of thing.

Kind of like they were taking advantage of the fact that I was just there and that I live there and I don't have anywhere else to go. It's not like I'm leaving and going to my own house. So it sort of was getting really frustrating. And they were taking up all of my time. And they were taking, just clearly taking advantage of me being there.

And I was getting really frustrated and annoyed. And now I kind of feel like, alright, well if I'm going to have to be here on the weekends I'm going to have to start finding other things to do and sort of separating myself from always having to do stuff with them and not really feeling obligated that I have to. [00:40:59]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Like I don't have to eat dinner with them. And I don't have to sit down and have breakfast with them. And I don't have to go everywhere and sort of can do my own thing. And, hopefully, as that happens over the next six months it will make me a little less stressed out and just feeling trapped.

Because when you're living and working all in the same house and then on the weekends you're not really getting a reprieve from the same people. And you're with them seven days a week. And I'm with the kids, you know, seven days a week. It's just a lot.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And, you know, a normal job I would have my weekends free. And there was a lot of times that, even when I was in Maine, they sort of didn't really respect the fact that I was away. And they would, you know, they wouldn't call so much but, you know, they'd send me e-mails.

And, you know, one time there was a snowstorm. I think it was back in November or something or maybe it was October. Or there was the hurricane. [00:41:58]

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I was up in Maine. And they were like, you know, the kids don't have school but they e-mailed me at eight o'clock in the morning and said, "Can you be home by noon?" And it's a three and a half hour drive for me. So I finally called and I was like, "No. I can't be home by noon because it's, you know, eight o'clock in the morning and you're asking me to be home in like three hours." Or, you know, "No. I'm away."

It's just like little stuff like that that to them I don't even think they pay much mind to. It just sort of, "Yeah, whatever." But to me I'm like you're sort of invading my personal space, I guess.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. Because that feels familiar.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like my Mom's always done that. (laughs) She never really gives me a break. And I just wanted to kind of have some time to myself.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And they kind are always just taking advantage of stuff. And it gets very frustrating. And they don't, I think unless I say something to them like I did yesterday about not asking me the day of about watching the kids, that they probably won't ever really change. [00:43:18]

So I feel like now I have to sort of do things and not be around so much. And I don't really think they care, but it's like to them if I'm there then what's the difference? And so there's sort of like a little lack of respect in the whole boundary situation.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: So that sort of adds to some of my stress. Being there all the time and not being able to sort of get out.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But hopefully I'll be able to be a little bit more assertive (laughs) about my own time on the weekends if I'm going to be there.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And that should help. (pause)

THERAPIST: Hm. Because it takes I mean certainly they should be more thoughtful of you, they definitely should. But it takes two to be taken advantage of. It's both people who are either intending to or just not thinking about another person. And then you are not setting the boundaries. [00:44:22]

CLIENT: Right. And I sort of as I was thinking like, you know, I let them because I don't say, "No." And I don't want to upset them by saying, "No," or, you know, anything like that. So they're not intentionally trying to take advantage of me but they are.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And so it does, you know, it works both ways. You know, I've sort of allowed them to do it.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And they just continue to do it whether they're noticing or not.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So even though this is my last sort of six months there, I feel like I'm going to have to really start putting my foot down over the next six months or I'm going to go crazy (laughs) being there all the time.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It's just a lot never having a break. Especially with the kids because they don't really have There's no boundaries in when their parents come home that they can sort of leave me alone. They don't kind of thing. It's just they constantly ask all of us for stuff. And, you know. [00:45:32]

THERAPIST: There's no separation.

CLIENT: I've become Yeah, there's not really any separation. I've sort of become less like the nanny and more just a part of the family.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So, you know, when we go places she doesn't even like to introduce me as the nanny. She's like, "I just always feel so bad introducing you like that because I feel like you're more like family." I'm like, "Okay. That's fine and that's great." But, you know, then it comes to things like having boundaries and separation of giving me my own personal space.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: When I need it. Especially when I'm there all the time.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So, oh boy.

THERAPIST: Well, we're going to have to stop for today.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Can I just ask you. I don't if I'll need this, and if you can't do it that's fine, but I'm wondering if we would be able to start ten minutes earlier on Thursdays. Is that a possibility?

CLIENT: Yeah. That's fine.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: At ten after one?

THERAPIST: It would be ten I'm not entirely I'm teaching until the end of the month and my schedule is shifting a little bit.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So I'm not even sure that would work. But would it be okay?

CLIENT: Yeah. If we need to that's fine.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay.

CLIENT: Yup. Absolutely.

THERAPIST: I very much respect times and don't like to move them.

CLIENT: Oh no, no, no. I usually would be here on time. But today I got a late start. But, yeah, that's fine.

THERAPIST: Okay. So I'll let you know. Let's do 1:20 unless I contact you.

CLIENT: Okay. Great.

THERAPIST: Okay. Very good.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Have a good trip.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Okay. Take care.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:46:54)

THERAPIST: Yes. Yes. Thank you. Press the button it makes a noise.

CLIENT: Oh. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Take care.

END TRANSCRIPT