TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Come on in. (pause)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:00:10). (chuckling) Hi.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Oh, let's see. It's been a week, right? This last few days have been pretty crappy, I guess. So I went to visit Kevin (sp?) over the weekend. And I was nervous last week when I was here because I wasn't sure how he was going to feel when I was there. And when I got there everything seemed good. We were getting along and he didn't seem unhappy or things weren't awkward. [00:01:02]

And we had a good weekend. Sunday, his sister and brother-in-law came to pick up his old TV that he had sold to them and so he was fine when they were there. And then they left and we were kind of just... I think we were... we went to run some errands. And he kind of seemed a little off but he has a really bad back. So his back had been bothering him on Saturday. And he had said, "Sorry if I'm a little cranky, whatever. I just don't really feel well." And I'm like, "OK." So I kind of thought that was still what was going on Sunday because he had said in the morning his back still hurt, whatever. So I think as the day progressed, we kind of... it kind of got a little bit more awkward. [00:02:00]

And there just wasn't a lot of talking. So I sort of stopped talking because I didn't really know what to say. And we went to the mall and returned some things and then went to a coffee shop, went back. And we were going to stop by the fish store because he has a fish tank and return something and then he was going to get some more fish. So when we got to the store, I kind of just was feeling a little... I don't know if it was overwhelmed or just in sort of like an awkward spot. So I opted to just stay in the car. I was like, "I'm just going to stay in the car." And he went in and kind of felt like maybe I just needed a minute to kind of breathe and sort of figure out what was going on and what to say.

Because when we were in the car, he kind of had said, "I hate the fact that I'm sitting across from my sister and brother-in-law and they don't know what's going on between us, too." [00:03:02] And he's like, "I feel like I'm sitting there thinking, 'I know something you don't know.'" So it's really bothering him and I think that sort of kind of maybe changed his mood a little bit for the rest of the day.

And we were... we had scheduled to go out with our friends that we knew from there to dinner that night. And he said something to the effect of wondering if their names are Dave (sp?) and Ashley (sp?) if Ashley (sp?) had told Dave (sp?) what was going on. Because I had given her a little bit of the gist of what was happening. Because right when it happened, I was supposed to go down there that weekend and then I didn't. And things were just kind of weird and I didn't want them to think we were sort of blowing them off or not wanting to hang out with them. So I kind of told her what was going on and we haven't... we've only just met them back in the end of August when we were in Puerto Rico and they were there, too. [00:04:04]

So he was... Kevin (sp?) was a little... I think he didn't really want me to tell them because he didn't feel like we were good enough friends with them. But I... so I was like, "I'm sorry, I just... I didn't want to lie. I didn't want to try to keep up with what I'm lying about. I just felt it was better if we were just honest and say like we're trying to figure stuff out." And he was like, "It's OK. I understand." So he mentioned in the car on Sunday that... I don't know why he thought that she wouldn't have told Dave (sp?). Or I'm not sure why he thought that. And when I said, "Oh, I'm sure she did tell him," he kind of got a little, I guess, weird about that.

So when we got the fish store, I just sort of took a minute and just while he went in and needed to breathe and was feeling like I don't want it to be awkward at dinner tonight. [00:05:03] I don't want to cancel on them because I still wanted to go out. And so he came back into the car and I offered... I said, "We do have to meet them in two hours but I can always cancel and say whatever. They sort of understand. They get what's going on. I don't think they would be too upset." And he's like, "No, no, no, no. It's fine. We'll go out." And I said, "OK."

So when we got back to the apartment, we were just sort of... I guess we were just sort of sitting on the couch. And he kind of said... he kind of started to talk to me about the whole awkwardness thing. And his perspective was that he felt like I am not being supportive and that I was sort of... he thinks that... I guess his feeling is that I'm being too empathetic and not sympathetic. [00:06:01]

And because he was feeling kind of down, I kind of struck (ph) down and stopped talking. And he was sort of unhappy with that. And it was like, "I'm looking for you to be more supportive and less just going down with me." He's like, "I feel like I'm barely floating above water and you're kind of just sitting there letting me fall and not really doing anything." And I wasn't really sure how to respond to that. He said, "You didn't get out of the car at the fish store. I don't why." And I said, "I just felt like maybe I needed a minute to kind of get it together. And I thought maybe you could use a minute since, you know." And he's like, "Well, you're just assuming now for me what I need." And I'm like, "OK. Well, maybe I just really needed a minute and I don't know if you did or not. But just from the way you were sort of acting, I know I definitely needed a minute so we'll just go with that." [00:07:04]

And he said, "OK." And he's like, "I kind of wish you would've just said that we were in the car. Like, 'Hey I just need a minute and whatever.'" I'm like, "All right. That's fair enough. I could've just easily said that." And so I got really upset because I said, "I'm really trying very hard to be able to communicate better with you my feelings and what I want or anything at any point in time. I feel like my entire almost demeanor and outlook on stuff has sort of changed in the last month. Normally if Sunday had happened and he wasn't talking to me, I probably would've gotten angry and kind of... it would've been some sort of contention and fight about, why are you acting like this?" [00:08:02]

And I just sort of took it as he's having a sort of moment of whatever is going on. I mean, so many things are happening right now and he keeps saying that he's on this emotional roller coaster. And one minute he's fine and the next minute it pops into his head everything that's happened and he's not OK. So I'm like, "All right. Whatever."

So we went out on Sunday night and everything was fine. And we were talking with them and we had made plans with them before it was sort of talking in the works of planning another vacation together all of us and... between now and like September or something just everybody going away for a long weekend or a week or something like that. So Kevin (sp?) kind of made a comment at dinner about the situation. I don't know if he felt like he needed to because I mean, they definitely didn't make anything awkward and they didn't say anything. [00:09:05]

And he's like, "I'm just sorry. I want you guys to know whatever." And they're like, "We don't care. We're not judging you. We still like you. We still think that you're decent people and whatnot." So then we just carried on with the rest of the night. And we were talking about doing vacationing together and all that other stuff. So I'm like all right. Well, I guess maybe he's feeling better. In the whole grand scheme of things, maybe we're trying to move on or something. And I came back here on Monday morning and it was fine. We said bye and I left and I got back here. And I just... like the second I got back here, I just immediately felt so miserable and I was... I just feel like every time I leave and come back I know how much I don't want to be here anymore. [00:10:03]

And I know I only have until June. So I'm really trying very hard to just stick it out because I did tell them that I would stay. I mean, I didn't sign a contract. I didn't do anything like that. But I did feel... I do feel like I made a commitment to them to stay. And I'm just so miserable here. I just don't want to be here. And the more I think about what's going on and having to be here more often on the weekends. It's sort of starting to frustrate me.

But at the same time, I kind of feel like I need to learn to do things on my own and not depend on always going to Kevin's (sp?) or always going to Pennsylvania to see my friends or just trying to be a little bit more independent. I mean, I have lived here for almost two years basically by myself with the exception of a few months here and there. [00:11:02] Or going to Kevin (sp?) on the weekends and seeing him when he was living in upstate New York. But I guess, part of me, I haven't fully just gone out and done stuff on the weekends by myself or just really do anything completely independent. If I was here on the weekends, I was doing something with the family. And I have always been timid as to doing things on my own.

Kevin (sp?) says, "Oh well, I always go out to dinner or whatever." And to me, I'm like, "Well, sometimes it's different for guys. It's easy for you to go and sit at the bar and not have to worry about it. And I'm just not that kind of person. I mean, I'm fairly outgoing. I just I'm not one to sort of just sit there by myself and have dinner." And so I feel like I don't necessarily need to go out to dinner by myself but to start doing things that aren't in Wellesley, at home or anywhere else. [00:12:07] Because if not, I think I am going to make myself crazy between now and June but...

So I felt really miserable when I got back and I said something to Kevin (sp?) about it. "I just don't like being here." And he said, "You only have a few more months." And so I wrote to him about moving back to Ohio because the whole idea was that in June I was moving to Ohio and I was living with him. But I said something to him and that's sort of changed. So now I said, "How do you feel about me moving down there?" And he wrote me this whole e-mail about, "I want you to be... I don't want you to feel like you're whole life is revolving around me. I don't want you to move down here because you think that it's definitely going to result in us living together because this might not work out." [00:13:09]

And I just feel like he's really making sure at every point he can to say this may not work out. But at the same time, it's like right now at this very moment he's not... we're still having a relationship but I don't know what he sees it as. Because he does... he keeps saying like, "I don't know if this is going to work out and I'm really scared that December 30th is going to happen again. And we're going to get into fights and we're not going to be able to communicate and all this other stuff." And he wants to start over but wants the whole legal stuff to get out of the way. [00:14:02]

And it's just so... I feel so confused and I don't understand what he wants or really what's happening. Because I mean, I was there last... this past weekend and everything was fine. It was almost like... it wasn't like nothing happened. But I mean we got along. Everything was fairly normal, I guess, you could say. So I feel like I can sometimes only speculate as to, do we hang out together and everything goes well and we're both enjoying ourselves and having a good time? And then he sort of gets scared and is like, "I don't want to fall back into a routine and then have us to forget about focusing on what we're doing." [00:14:58]

And when he wrote me the e-mail on Monday, he said, "You can't be so afraid to say things to me or like I'm going to leave or whatever." And I was sort of reading that and I was like I don't want him to think that he's the only person that I'm afraid to say things to. I mean, every... like there's everybody that I come in contact with, I'm afraid to say things to my friends, to the people that I work for. I get nervous that it's going to be sort of a negative reaction on their part. And then I'm going to make waves of some sort or anything like that. And so I'm always very conscientious about what I'm saying. And last week I said I was just proud of myself for even making a point to say to them, "Could you please let me know more than a day." I mean, that was a really big deal for me even though it's probably insignificant for other people. [00:16:01]

I just am not the kind of person that says stuff. And I don't know if it stems from being my mom and being scared to say stuff to her because of her reaction. And I just sort of blanket it to everybody else. But that's just how I am. And I had texted him because my kids have swimming on Mondays and I watch another little baby. So I was going 90 different ways on Monday afternoon. And he had called me and he was very nice on the phone. And he's like, "I really wish you were there when I got home and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And I was like that's really nice. And this was after he had written me the e-mail of, "Just don't move down here with the intention of us living together because it might not work out." So I feel like sometimes his actions and his words are seriously conflicting. And so I texted him while we were at swimming and said, "We need to talk later." [00:17:05]

Just because I sort of wanted to address what he said in the e-mail. But just saying like, "I don't want you think you're the only person that I'm afraid to say stuff to. I think you should know that by now, whatever. Please don't think that I'm not saying things to you for whatever reason, especially at this point in time." And so I called him on Monday night and he was sort of already when he answered the phone defensive. And I didn't... I hadn't even gotten anything out yet. And I started to talk. And I don't even remember everything that he said because he was so angry and just sort of yelling at me and telling me what I was going to say and all this other stuff. And I was like I wasn't going to say any of that. And he keeps saying, "You just want to go along and pretend like nothing happened. And you just want to just... you keep planning like when you're coming here next and all this other stuff." [00:18:09]

And I'm like, "Well, I'm going there in February but I didn't plan that." It was when I was there, yea, this past weekend. When I got there on Thursday, we went to dinner and he was talking about the things that he has going on socially at work. And that there is something going on the 15th of February on Friday night that he can bring someone to. And he said, "I don't know when your plans are for coming down but if you wanted to come down that weekend." So I said, "Perfect. It's Presidents' weekend. The kids have off of school on Monday. Their parents have off. They can take care of them and I can come down Thursday night or whatever." And he was totally fine with that. I even bought my plane ticket already and everything. But then Monday he was sort of... he was yelling at me. Like, "I'm planning when I'm coming and I'm planning this. And I want to go along like nothing happened." [00:18:59]

And I just... I was in sort of shock. I didn't even know what to say. And I sort of said, "I don't feel like we can truly start over from the beginning. There's no starting over with 'Hi, I'm Kevin (sp?).' 'Oh hi, I'm Angela.' When all of this stuff... all the legal stuff is said and done just given the fact that we have known each other for a year and a half now." And he said, "Well, I don't understand then why when we were talking that one day in the coffee shop that you were OK with that the whole starting over thing." And I'm like, "Well, it's not that we... I don't think that we can't start over in a sense. But I don't think that it can be quite as beginning and anew as you want it to be. We have already a history intact of a lot of things. And over the last year, I haven't been good at communicating. We've had confrontation. Obviously this thing happened." [00:20:01]

I don't know maybe this isn't such a great relationship or maybe it's just neither of us had time to get over things that have happened from the past. And we could be great together because when things are great, we have a really good time. We get along. We do communicate well. But then when we're apart and things are tense, we don't.

And I said, "Whatever happened... everything happened on December 30th. And I don't know what you think is happening right now, but in my opinion what is happening now and whether we're talking or not talking, it's still going to affect what happens later. It's still going to affect your opinion of whether or not we should be together. It's going to affect my opinion of whether or not we should be together." And he just... and I was like, "I just sort of want you to give me a change. I'm trying very, very hard to sort of change my communication skills. And not be so hair triggered and defensive and nasty and to sort of take a step back and breathe and think before I start talking and not getting angry at silly little things." [00:21:17]

And he keeps acknowledging, week after week, "I know you're trying really hard. I'm really proud of you. I'm so happy you're going to therapy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." I'm like, "OK. Thank you." But then on Monday, it was like he was just bombarding me and yelling at me. And the entire conversation was him just being really nasty and really defensive and I was getting really upset. And he's like, "Well, if you're not going to talk, then I'm just going to hang up." And I said, "I don't... maybe we could revisit this at another day because what I'm trying to say to you you're not hearing. And you're already being defensive." And he's like, "No. Either you say it now or there's just no point in talking about it." I'm like, "OK." [00:22:02]

So I tried to sort of just say what I was going to say originally but it still sort of ended up in him being super defensive about stuff. And I tried to make the point that we had both agreed to come to therapy and he hasn't gone yet and that's sort of raising a little bit of a red flag to me. If he was so concerned about going and he was saying that he needed to go. And when I asked him this weekend, he said that he had found a place. He just hasn't called because he's scared to go and he's scared to... of what's going to come out. And I was trying to be supportive and I understand that you're going to have to, I guess, sort of relive things that you may not want to or talk about things or feel things that you're not necessarily wanting to right now. But in order for it to get better later, you kind of have no choice. And you already said that you were going to go. [00:23:00]

And when I tried to mention that again on Monday, he was like, "Don't lecture me." And he was just getting really angry. And so I kind of just hung up the phone. And then it carried over into Tuesday morning when he was just saying like, "I'm just so disgusted. It's so dramatic all the time. This relationship is so dramatic the fact that we're even in this situation, the fact that I'm this old and I'm going to court for something. This is not normal. This doesn't happen in normal relationships." And I was just like, "OK." And he said, "I'm really struggling with this." And I said to him, "I understand. I'm trying to be supportive and I'm trying to be there for you. The whole point was that we were to support each other through this entire thing. I'm not the one that has to go to court but at the same time, it's not like I'm flying... having an easy time here." [00:24:03]

And it was sort of in the beginning via text message because he was on his way to work. And then he called me Tuesday morning after I sent the whole trying to get through this together. And he was sort of yelling me. He called and said, "I don't... that's not what I need or you're not understanding what I want. And every time I think about the situation, it's your face that I see." And I'm like, "OK." And he said something about, "I'm... we're not... there's no putting any blame. It's no one's fault. We're both... it's both of our faults." But I really feel like he is blaming me for it. I mean, if every time he gets angrier or every time he thinks about the situation and I'm the face that pops into his head, I don't know if that means that he is blaming me. But I feel like he just is holding a lot of anger towards me because of the situation. [00:25:03]

And I feel like, well, if he hadn't called 911 or he hadn't reacted in such a crazy fashion to, I guess, me saying whatever I did and not letting him out of the house which is... it was both of us. And sometimes I'm like, well, if he didn't just... if he hadn't called 911, we wouldn't have any legal issues at all. But he felt whatever he needed to do was to call them and he got... ended up being arrested. And I'll never say that to him but every person that I talked to even his own lawyer is like, "I still don't know why he called 911." He didn't need to. You didn't put him in any danger. And no one seems to sort of understand why he said that or why he did that. [00:26:02]

And I don't even know if he understands why he did that. And so he didn't talk to me Tuesday night. He didn't call. I sent him a couple of e-mails at work. And he was like, "Don't send me e-mails at work. I'm trying to..." Normally, we talk back and forth all day just about anything. And I had sent him an e-mail Tuesday morning just saying, "Look, I don't really appreciate you yelling at me like this and making me feel this way. It's not OK." And he wrote back saying, "Send them to my personal e-mail. I can't deal with this." And then he just never called on Tuesday night after work or texted or said anything. And then yesterday morning I didn't hear from him before work. So I sent him an e-mail and I said, "I hope you have a good day but I'm sorry that whatever is happening is resulting in you not talking to me." [00:27:00]

And he wrote me back and he said, "I just need some time to regroup. I know that's not what you want but it's what I need right now." And I said, "That's fine if that's what you need. That's perfectly OK. Just I don't understand given that we just came off of having a fairly decent weekend." And his response was, "I know. It sucks." And that was it. And so I didn't hear from him the rest of the day yesterday until I guess it was probably when he was leaving for work. He kind of just sent me some very small talky text messages back and forth. And I didn't really say anything.

On Monday when I got back I opened the mail and I had gotten my summons from the D.A.'s office to sort of report on the 22nd for trial as a witness. [00:28:00] And then the people that I live with got one as well. So I had told him and then I called the lawyers or whatever. So last night he just asked me, "Did you ever hear back from Barry (sp?), the lawyer?" And I said, "Yes." And he was going over to some other couple's for dinner last night. And I went to yoga. And then I didn't hear from him.

And this morning he sent me some sort of small talky text message and I replied back. And then I said, "You don't have to make small talk with me. If you don't want to talk, just don't talk. You don't need to feel like you need to make small talk." And then that angered him in some way. And he's like, "Why do you feel like you have to say that kind of stuff. That's the kind of stuff that you always say." And I was like, "Well, I just thought I was trying to be nice. But I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive. I just didn't want you to think that I needed you to talk to me." [00:29:00]

And he's like, "Well, I don't feel guilty for... if I didn't want to talk to you, I wouldn't talk to you." And I was like, "OK." And I had said, "I don't understand why you're being so nasty. I have been trying to be nothing nice and supportive for the last month about everything that's going on. And I understand that had this been a month or two ago and the same sort of situation was happening and you weren't talking to me, I would've gotten angry and probably yelled and it would've resulted in some sort of terrible confrontation. But all I'm doing is saying OK and letting you have the time that you need and trying to be nice so that you don't... I don't know if you felt guilty or felt obligated because you said I know it's what you want but I'm sorry. So I didn't know if you were feeling guilty that you weren't talking to me." And it was via text message at first. I'm like I think he was not reading it correctly or he read it really fast because he completely took it the wrong way and then was being very snarky. [00:30:06]

And I finally called him and I said, "You do not understand what I'm saying. I'm not comparing you and me." Apparently he thought I was comparing him and me in how he would react as versus to how I'm reacting. I'm not sure where he got that but however, that's how he translated it. And I was like, "That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just... I'm comparing myself a month or two ago to myself now. Not you at all. You just happen to be the situation." And he was like, "Oh, OK." And that was it. And he had to go to work. And I haven't heard from him. He was like, "Just don't write me e-mails at work because I can't handle our personal stuff going on. Because I'm super busy at work and I have a lot going on there." I'm like, "OK." [00:31:01]

So that's kind of where we left it at. And it's just I'm feeling very confused and very unsure of what's right and what's wrong and what I should and shouldn't be doing. And I was talking to my best friend and she kept saying, "I don't think he's right for you. And I don't think he... he's being abusive because he's yelling at you. And he treats you terribly and all of this is happening. And I don't like him. But if you want to stay with him, then I'll be supportive." And I don't think... I think sometimes it's either when stuff like this happens, it's like people's true colors really come out or maybe he's just not handling this well. I really... from knowing him for the past year, he's never really been sort of snippy and defensive and nasty and sort of an angry person. [00:32:10]

And he is being that way. Not all the time but this week, obviously. And I'm sure I could speculate all day as to why. I mean, I don't... but I just don't know. And I'm feeling disappointed in him that he had said he was going to go to therapy and he was going to be very forward in trying to find something and he hasn't. And saying something to him results in him getting angry. And maybe just wasn't the right time to say it. Maybe I needed to catch him on a different day because when I had asked him over the weekend, he was fine with his reply about it. It wasn't defensive or nasty. So I'm just sort of feeling like maybe we need to separate because I don't know what we're doing. [00:33:05]

I mean, he still wants to hang out and have a good time and when I was there... or when I was leaving on Monday morning, he said, "Maybe you can plan us to go to..." There is an amusement park in Ohio. And we were supposed to go to the one in Texas last year when he went for a work trip. But now that he lives pretty close to Ohio, he said, "We can go because it's free for military." They give them free passes and stuff. So he's like, "Well, why don't you plan a trip for us to go there?" and saying all of these things. But at the same time, he's very... still making sure that I know that this may not work out. And I don't know if he's just so incredibly scared of it all happening again. [00:34:02] And that he just is trying to make sure that it doesn't happen. Or I really don't know. He just seems very, very scared.

THERAPIST: It's very... yea, it's very clear that this is completely baffling you what he's doing.

CLIENT: Yea, I really... I'm so confused and even when I try to... I talk to my best friend and... but she doesn't know him that well because she lives in Pennsylvania. So she's only met him a few times. And she's like, "I don't like him." But I feel like this isn't him. He's just reacting very terribly to a very terrible situation. And he, himself, is very confused and really scared. And I said to him on Monday, "Why are you still here in this relationship?" [00:35:00]

And because I said, "You keep saying to me, 'Be prepared because it might not work out.' You continually say that. But at the same time when we're together or when things are OK, we talk and things are fine. But... and you're still here and you don't want to break up because I have mentioned that before. Like, 'Maybe we shouldn't be together.' And you kind of..." He didn't necessarily resist it. But he was like, "Well, if you think that's what's best for you," even though he didn't really want to. And I was just like, "I'm really confused. I don't know why you're still here." And he's like, "But I... because I really want this. I really want to be with you but I'm just scared that it's not going to work out or I just... I don't know what's going to happen." And so I am completely baffled. [00:36:01]

Does he want to be in this relationship? And... because he always says he is very straightforward. Don't read too much into what he says. He's constantly like, "Don't overthink things. If what I say is just what I say. And I'm not trying to send you some sort of hidden message or anything like that." And I'm like all right. Because he still says, "I like being with you. I like spending time with you. I still like talking to you," and all this stuff. And he was sort of... on Monday when he was going through his defensiveness and I was bringing up like, "You're always saying that it might not work out and this, that and the other." And he said, "Well, are you just not listening to me completely when I say things?" I'm like, "No, I hear you. You do say things like, 'I love being with you and I love doing things with you.' But you're saying two completely different things. Sometimes your actions are day and night. So I have no idea what's happening." [00:37:12]

And he's like, "I don't want to have all these arguments. I don't want to have all these fights because we're already on thin ice in our relationship anyway. And any kind of ripple is just going to..." I don't even know what he said. "Any sort of ripples is going to turn into some big hole that we're going to fall into," and whatever metaphor he was trying to make out of it. (chuckling) And I'm like, "Well, I'm not... I didn't call you to try and make waves. I was just calling to try and tell you how I feel. And you got defensive and now that makes me not want to talk to you. And that's exactly what my mom does to me. If I wanted to have conversations where before I even got anything out of my mouth you started yelling me I would call my mom and have a conversation with her because that's what she does." And he didn't say anything because I think he kind of knew I was right. He just sort of scoffed and was like, "OK and..." [00:38:06]

THERAPIST: Well, it seems like, aside from feeling... expressing some frustration, I feel like you're talking about this in a somewhat detached way.

CLIENT: Yea. I guess. I just...

THERAPIST: Whether he wants to be with you or not seems like a pretty emotional issue.

CLIENT: It is and it's sort of making... I'm just... I don't know if I'm just feeling detached right now or... because before I was super afraid. I didn't want him to leave and I didn't want to... and I am... I don't want him to leave and I don't want us to break up. And I would like to try and move on now and just start healing from this whole situation. And I don't want to just move on pretend like nothing happened. [00:39:02] And I've even said that to him. Like, "We're never going to move on and forget about it. It's always going to be there but..."

THERAPIST: (sneezes)

CLIENT: Bless you. "We're going to move on and sort of learn from the experience and become better people as we move forward." And he's just not there and he just... so this whole what is going on right now is just completely... I don't even... I feel like part of me is I don't want to be too attached because if I'm too attached then... and I'm trying to make plans or I'm trying to be with him or something like that. He's getting angry. Or am I being detached because I'm just afraid I'm going to get hurt and if I put too much effort into this, that I'm going to get hurt again? Because I said to him when I was talking about moving down there and I was like, "Well, it could work. I could move down there and get a job in June. And if we're still together, work on our relationship." [00:40:10]

But then as I was thinking about it and I'm like I'm not doing that again. I did... that's how I ended up here. I left my life in Pennsylvania, moved up here, lived with my boyfriend at the time for two months three months at tops and it all just sort of went downhill. And now here I am, sort of not necessarily stuck but sort of stuck.

And part of me is like, do I want to go through all that pain and moving down there to be closer to him so that if we're still having a relationship in June or July when I'm supposed to be moving? Do I move my whole life down there? [00:40:58] Or do I move somewhere else and then him and I just continue to have a long distance relationship which has been extremely frustrating and extremely just hasn't really given us a chance to do a whole lot because we've been so far apart.

I mean, there was at one time where we were seeing each other every weekend. But that was only for... before he moved to Ohio. Other than that, it was twice a month maybe we were seeing each other for the last year and a half now. And to me, it's like it's super hard... in the beginning we were doing fine on the phone and talking and trying to build some sort of relationship. But then we just sort of stopped communicating. And I don't know. I felt like I was getting too close so I was pushing back a lot and not really wanting to give everything that I had. [00:42:07]

And now I sort of feel like maybe I'm going back to that. And part of me always has been like if this isn't going to work out, I'm not going to give you everything because I don't want to get hurt again. And now I'm sort of feeling like, do I need to sort of just not talk to him? And just say we don't necessarily need to break up but maybe we just need some time apart and some space so that you... he can kind of figure out what he's doing and I can kind of figure out what I'm doing. Or do we just need to sort of break up altogether? Or I don't know what's right right at this moment.

THERAPIST: And it's really hard for you to relate to what's going on with him. It seems like he seems right now like a black box. [00:43:06]

CLIENT: Yea. And sometimes when I talk to him I don't know what I'm going to get. I don't know if he's going to be angry or mad or happy or sad or whatever. And he just keeps saying how horrible and terrible this whole situation is and it's like the world is ending. And I don't understand how he feels. And no, I don't really understand how he feels fully because I'm not the one going to court and facing all these charges. But at the same time, I don't know what he thinks I'm... how I'm feeling. Or if he thinks that I'm just sort of skipping along and pretending like nothing happened and wanting to move forward without it being there. I just don't want to dwell on it and maybe that's just how we deal with things. But we both deal with them differently. [00:44:03]

But I just have always been one to sort of deal with it or maybe even not deal with it and kind of just push it away and kind of move on. And he's still dealing with it and he's still angry and I sort of just really wish he would find somebody to kind of talk with to get all of his feelings and all of his anger out. Because he's just, to me it feels like he's just harboring anger and building resentment as time goes on without... if he's not going to therapy or he's not finding an outlet to... in any way, shape or form. He doesn't know anybody down there except our friends and the people that he works with. But he's not going to tell them anything. And he doesn't want to tell his sister who lives in the area. So he has nothing. He goes home from work and he stays home by himself. And that's basically all he does. [00:45:01]

So he just sort of sits there and he stews about it, I think. And he doesn't really talk about it because when him and I get on the phone, it's like he doesn't want to talk about it or he doesn't want it to always be the only thing that we talk about which is understandable. I mean, I don't want to talk about it every day because then you sort of talk it to death. And it does make it extremely depressing. It's not like it's a happy situation. But at the same time I don't know how he wants me to deal with it. And I just don't know how he is feeling. And it's just sort of making me crazy. And part of me really does just sort of want to detach from it and stop being overly emotional because then I won't end up getting hurt later on. [00:45:59]

But I'm trying to be supportive. I'm trying to be helpful. But I don't know if that's what he wants or what he needs. And he's not very... he's very verbal about stuff. But he doesn't articulate things so well. And so when I do try to talk to him, it doesn't always... it's not very clear by the end of the conversation of still what he wants. Because I don't think he knows which is...

THERAPIST: I think that's true. I think that's very true. I think your experience in the confusion that he feels I think he's communicating very well although not in an intentional way of what he's feeling. I think he's feeling deeply confused and it's leaving you feeling deeply confused.

CLIENT: Yes. Over this in this sort of state of I don't know. (chuckling) And it's frustrating.

THERAPIST: I hear you.

CLIENT: So I don't know.

THERAPIST: We're going to need to stop today.

CLIENT: OK.

THERAPIST: I will see you on Monday.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: OK. Take care.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Bye-bye.

CLIENT: It's nice and warm today but...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: ...I don't think it's going to stay like that. Bye-bye.

THERAPIST: Bye. [00:47:09]

END TRANSCRIPT