Client "D", Session May 23, 2013: Client discusses the anxiety he feels over performing well in his therapist sessions. Client wants to make sure that he is getting something out of his investment. trial
TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST : How are you?
CLIENT: Good. Can I bother you for a glass of water?
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: (inaudible)
THERAPIST : No problem.
CLIENT: But I just get here from work sometimes. (pause) Thank you. [00:01:13]
THERAPIST: You're welcome.
CLIENT: I should try to bring a water bottle [and spill it on myself.] (ph)
THERAPIST: No big deal. I'm probably going to get like some cups and just keep them in the cabinet and keep them out on the sink.
CLIENT: Or a water bottle, I think. Yeah, there were cups in the bathroom in your old place. I remember.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That's what I recall.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So how are you doing today?
THERAPIST: Good. Good. Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah? I don't know. I'm just kind of tired.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I feel, yeah, I just had a busy day at work.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: A busy couple of days and I feel almost mentally unprepared to be here almost.
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: Does that make sense to you. [00:02:18]
THERAPIST: Yeah. What? How so? What do you notice?
CLIENT: I guess I could compare it to like going to class in the sense that I've never really thought about it this way, but I suppose it can be phrased as almost feeling like I have to be able to come here and sort of perform or something. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Well. Perform. Yeah. Perform? What do you mean perform? (pause)
CLIENT: I don't know. I don't even know. I guess just it's a time that I need to be able to, (pause) to think. Not even just to think, because I do that all day. Do you know what I mean? But this is I guess I feel a certain amount of effort is required to be able to do well here or something. [00:03:44]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: Which sounds weird to say. It sounds different than the way I think about it or something, but yeah.
THERAPIST: [Do you want to] (ph) do well?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: I want to do well when I come here.
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: I want to do good.
THERAPIST: Huh. What? How do you know you're doing well? What feels like you've done well? You know, that kind of thing.
CLIENT: There are definitely times that I've left here feeling like I've done well and times that I've left here feeling like I didn't do well. I mean, that's very evident to me. I think a lot of the times when I say to you, "I feel like I'm rambling." Which I think I notice I say sometimes. I feel like that's a way for me to express me feeling like I'm not doing well or something. Do you know what I mean? [00:04:56]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I think I judge it off of you. I think. A lot.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: What my reaction is to things.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think I judge your response to things that I say.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: Or body language, stuff like that. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And then I, based on that I feel like I've performed well, or I have not performed well, or been interesting, or I've (pause) Yeah, I guess it has a lot to do with my impression of how you've been moved by our fifty minutes together. [00:05:59]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, are there certain things about my reaction that, you know, you're in particular looking Like is it how interested I seem to be? Or, I mean, you mentioned -
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: how interested.
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess how interested you seem to be. How that plays out.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Maybe I'm a little less certain of. It's something that I feel pretty strongly but I guess I couldn't articulate as clearly as I seem to feel it. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Or react to.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely something, it's definitely a way that I sort of view this fifty minutes. You know? I better be on my game or something. I think the closest thing I could compare it to would be like going to class. [00:07:09]
THERAPIST: Well what element of going to class? Like you're going to -
CLIENT: I couldn't go to class You know, if I was going to class and there was going to be a discussion that day, I'd want a cup of coffee first. You know? I'd want to be well rested because it wouldn't be good to go to class and not perform well. To not do the things that you come to class to do well. Do you know what I mean? (pause)
THERAPIST: What the, if it was a discussion? Are you thinking about a particular kind of class?
CLIENT: I'm thinking about just my classes with Kaley (ph).
THERAPIST: Oh okay. Yeah.
CLIENT: I'm thinking about it. I guess the way I'm trying to like I would separate this from like me being at home and like just sitting down and thinking and relaxing. I wouldn't call this my relaxation time. It's not that. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean it's bad. [00:08:16]
There's a lot of things that are not relaxation time that are good. But in the sense that I see this experience as something that I am, in the same way like at class, that this is like I don't know how to phrase it. (pause) There's a sort of like a higher kind of authority or something that I am appealing to.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: As opposed to setting the terms or something. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Like a kind of evaluation that's going on that you're aware of that you're (cross talking at 00:09:08)?
CLIENT: Sort of. Yeah. Yeah. An evaluation, I think. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Definitely something like that.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I feel like I'm free to talk about anything I want here, but with that freedom I feel like I just try to talk about the things that are worth talking about.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Based upon what I suspect you think is worth talking about or interesting.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That's what I would do with that freedom. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of reminds me a bit of like you wondering, "Am I going down the right road if I'm talking about my Dad, or back earlier," kind of thing.
CLIENT: Yeah. It's a similar. Yeah.
THERAPIST: I don't get that sense as much. I haven't gotten that sense about it lately about why you've been talking about your folks, or whatever. But it seemed like you would kind of mention that earlier. [00:10:10]
CLIENT: Maybe it's still there, that element. There was definitely a shift, you know, towards me feeling more comfortable talking about it. But I think it could probably be said that I may have just started to feel more comfortable that it was something worth talking about.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Based upon my reaction.
CLIENT: What you would consider worth talking about.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: So in a sense I was still sort of playing that game.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about it, I guess, in one way of like you knowing that I'm going to be with you, or I'm going to be I mean it has a lot of me in it, but one thing is that I'll be kind of engaged and stay wanting to have some participation. Maybe there's elements of approval, but I guess when you say interest I was thinking about that. Huh. [00:11:18]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Wanting me to participate. Wanting me to be -
CLIENT: Mm hm. (pause) It's funny. There's something I thought, I was thinking about talking about when I was doing what I do. Thinking about what I'm going to talk about when I come here as I'm walking here. And I kind of did what I usually do. I think about what things happened in the last day or two that I could, you know, search for some significance in or something. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Like, "Here's this thing that happened with my Mom last night," or something. Maybe I can talk about that.
THERAPIST: Ah, okay.
CLIENT: You know, that could be something I could talk about here. But I kind of started to feel frustrated with that. I felt (pause) I felt I didn't want to be doing that anymore. [00:12:29]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: I didn't like that I was doing that. I didn't like that I felt compelled to do that. Do you know what I mean? And I started just thinking about, you know, other, just a different way of talking about things here. And I guess one of the things I started to think about was certain things that would be very hard for me to say here to you at times.
And the thing that I kind of like, I think that I feel and think on some level a lot, but I don't ever actually even consider it as something I could talk about here.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: And I started to think about it and I just sort of starting playing around with little images in my head. And one of the things that I think I kind of stumbled upon, which I thought was interesting, was that Maybe this isn't totally different from other things that I've said, but I've been coming here for a long time. You know? [00:13:53]
And I'll preface it. This is like really difficult for me to say on some level. And I'm more interested in sharing it with you because, less because I want to actually say it, but more I want to even almost just like talk about my discomfort even in saying it or something.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That I want to keep doing this, like indefinitely. I don't want it I want it to be better than this though.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: I want more out of this.
THERAPIST: Yeah. What?
CLIENT: I want to do it, moving into the future, such that it can get better.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: You know what I mean? (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah. What did you have What's better? What would be better?
CLIENT: I don't know. I didn't really get that far with it. [00:15:02]
THERAPIST: But something though, huh?
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: [You want it to be better.] (ph)
CLIENT: I want to (pause) be challenged more, I think.
THERAPIST: Huh.
CLIENT: This is real hard for me to talk about because usually I don't like to talk about things unless I feel like I have kind of a grasp of it. You know what I mean? Like these are things that I think I intentionally sort of keep out of the realm of discussion topics, because then they just kind of, you know, (inaudible at 00:15:48) to me in a way. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But I think it's something I definitely feel. I'm pretty sure that I feel that I want more out of this. You know what I mean? But it's very worrisome to think about saying that to you or something. You know? Even to communicate it to you now I feel like I had to preface it with all these kind of modifiers and conditionals. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.
CLIENT: But that's kind of like what I started to feel when I was walking here again. You know? Like I almost feel like I've Like some of the habits and patterns of behavior and thought patterns that I feel like I came here to get into have almost just sort of like spread their web around this or something.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Can you say (inaudible at 00:16:53)? Like is an example just the ability to say something like, just like you just did? Part of it. You know, being able to go, "Listen, I want more." I don't want to have to worry about " Or, "I don't want to have to struggle to say that I want more or that I want to feel uninhibited enough to be able to say something like that." If you need to, if you want to, if the mood strikes you.
CLIENT: Yeah. Like literally though, almost even like enough to even actually think that. You know? That's something that I feel like I have felt but not really thought consciously. You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: But that kind of like act. Like I feel like that's putting [it all] (ph) on you. It's like asking a lot of you or something. [00:18:10]
THERAPIST: Huh. Uh huh.
CLIENT: And it feels very It feels uncomfortable from my perspective. You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) Well in a way, yeah, I guess you need to be out of the position of being the student in a way, or being graded. By saying that you're not trying to, you know, get the good grade or whatever. You know? (laughs)
CLIENT: Mm hm.
THERAPIST: I feel like you're just telling me something else. You're trying to get something out of this.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Is that right?
CLIENT: Mm hm. Yeah, yeah. It's paying attention to a different set of cues that say things are good or bad. (sigh) You know? [00:19:11]
THERAPIST: Yes. Yeah.
CLIENT: Which this feels in certain ways not unlike other aspects of my life in that those fears are completely like You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Here I go again. I'm having the same experience here that I'm like looking to try to get the hell out of sometimes. Is that what you mean?
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Not Yeah.
THERAPIST: When you say "challenge," what do you mean by that? You want to be challenged here. (pause)
CLIENT: (sigh) I don't know what I mean by it, but I guess for some reason I feel like it would be more to the point for me to say like, "I want you to challenge me more." [00:20:25]
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: And again, I'm just saying I feel like I'm hurting your feeling or something just in saying that.
THERAPIST: Oh yeah?
Do you know what I mean? Like it's just, yeah. It just feels, I don't know, nervous.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: I would say that. You know?
THERAPIST: But, yeah, challenge you more. Challenge you more.
CLIENT: But what makes me nervous about that isn't anything about like that specifically, but like that type of whatever relating to you. Even like I want more. I need, I want you to do anything. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Right. Right. Like that goes against your grain.
CLIENT: Just in that sense it's sort of a little nervy. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah. No, I think it's a good venue (ph) for you to say it though. I think it's a good thing that you can kind of tell me. You know?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You know? I mean, yeah. I know the risk it entails to you. But to be able to kind of speak to something that you're really looking for. [00:21:36]
CLIENT: Mm hm.
THERAPIST: Including, I think, just stepping out of that position of having to speak from a place of kind of concern about I mean not that there's anything wrong with being concerned about people's feelings. But, you know, to be able to, nonetheless, even though there's some concern about what I'm going to feel or something, that you can still say what you just said.
But I am curious. The challenge though. That you want to be challenged. You want to be, (pause) by me, challenged more. (pause)
CLIENT: So it seems to -
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:22:31)
CLIENT: Sorry?
THERAPIST: [How it could be better.] (ph) Just thinking of -
CLIENT: When I think this it brings to mind feelings of (pause) frustration with the fact that in some ways I feel (pause) like I'm not growing or progressing in certain ways. You know?
THERAPIST: Hm. (pause)
CLIENT: Like I'm stagnating or something. Like not enough (pause) is being done or something. I don't know. (pause) I don't know. (pause) I guess I thought that, I don't know, I would be I want to be better than this. Do you know what I mean? [00:24:31]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: And I don't know if it's coming through [in what I'm talking about] (ph), but I want to, I don't know. I think it stems from a frustration with that. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: Like a call to action or something. I don't know.
THERAPIST: Hm. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah, I want to go. I don't know. (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, what do you, where are you going?
CLIENT: I guess I feel like I've been for a long time, like coming here for a long time, and I guess I (pause) I guess I feel like I may not be honest when I come in here or something. You know what I mean? [00:25:37]
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: Like, I don't know. I'm feeling really lost when I'm talking about it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I feel like I'm (pause) not doing what I need to do or something. You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. And a feeling that I'm not, in some way, helping. Doing my job the way I could. Well not my job, but in some way you want something more out of me too.
CLIENT: I want you to I feel like there's an ability for me to just like (pause) I feel like I would be able to come here for the rest of my life and talk to you twice a week, and in no way would that necessitate me getting below the surface. [00:26:53]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: And I feel like that's like a feature of my own doing. And I want you to challenge that. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. Get at something else that is there that is hard to bring in.
CLIENT: Yeah. Or call me out or something.
THERAPIST: Call you out.
CLIENT: If you think I'm, I don't know. I don't know.
THERAPIST: Well I guess from what you're saying today is that, I don't know if it's calling you out as much as it is maybe saying something about, or reacting to what you have to say, is that I think you're saying it's (pause) It's just been very difficult to bring in aspects of what you see here and in me that can be more, you know, more at odds with some degree of, you know, complaint. [00:28:17]
Or not complaint, but something that you feel is off to you. And that you're trying to find a way to bring that element in. And I've got to say, I think that is, I think that's very important because it's precisely sort of something that I think, you know, as we've been talking about your folks and everything. It's like, how do you have a relationship that isn't just about it being cool? You know?
And, of course, it would make sense that it's not just, you know, with your Dad but some element of how you feel in your life more generally. And something about here that you're wanting to go, "Alright, we can act like, yeah." Not that it's an act but there's something that you're getting out of the work we're doing together, yeah. And yet I think you're also saying that there's all this other side of you that is harder to bring in. [00:29:29]
CLIENT: I guess it's just I'm presuming that there are things to bring in. But I feel like I wouldn't even know where to begin because I feel like all I focus on is you. (ph) Do you know what I mean? Like similarly to a lot of other things. You know?
THERAPIST: What do you mean? When you say it [feels similar?]
CLIENT: Like I don't even know what about. Like both of my hands are pretty occupied just paying attention to you.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: To try to like make you happy. That it's like I don't even have like, I don't have any other time or any other energy to even consider that. Like everything is already being spent on Do you know what I mean? [00:30:39]
THERAPIST: I see. Yeah, like the access to this other side of things?
CLIENT: Yeah. I presume it's there but it's like I don't have a hand to even like [go there] (ph).
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. And that's frustrating to me.
THERAPIST: But you are more Are you saying though that there will be, that you will notice yourself thinking about things when you're not here about therapy, about me, that you'll go, "This is I wish we had, there was more of this or "
CLIENT: I don't think about what I wish there was more of. I think about what I'm frustrated that there is. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
CLIENT: And I'm frustrated that I have That this, yeah. (pause) That this seems to have been like assimilated into the way that I -
THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay.
CLIENT: deal with so much other stuff.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And that feels like a defeat to me. That feels like That feels You know? I don't know. [00:31:57]
THERAPIST: I mean is it kind of like you don't want it to be another situation like you kind of can feel like with Kaley (ph), where one element of it is, yeah, you wanting to, you know, kind of get something from her. You know? Some degree of like, yeah, approval but also that she would see something important in you. But on the other hand, you also describe having trouble going like what are some of the frustrating things about Kaley (ph) that were harder to bring in.
CLIENT: Mm hm.
THERAPIST: And is it kind of like that in that way? Of like here you are in the same kind of dilemma. You're here and in the present there's this power of the interaction where you feel like your focus and attention is on keeping my interest or doing, you know, doing well.
CLIENT: And keeping things cool. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Keeping things cool. And in some way your needing to bring this other element of things that is harder to get to in the moment or in the present, because the focus goes to this other "keeping things cool." [00:33:04]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Is that?
CLIENT: Yeah. No, I (sigh) (pause) Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Are you finding it hard to talk about?
CLIENT: Sort of. Which is weird because I usually feel like the most difficult thing here is to like not just talk on and on and on and on.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know what I mean? (laughs)
THERAPIST: It's different. (ph)
CLIENT: Sorry.
THERAPIST: Well, it's something different though maybe.
CLIENT: Yeah. It frustrates me that maybe this isn't different. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That this is -
THERAPIST: Here I go again, kind of thing?
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.
THERAPIST: And yeah, I can see though that you're also feeling like you came here to maybe get out of that. [00:34:12]
CLIENT: Yeah. And that's like what I wanted to come here to get to [the meat of stuff] (ph). To get challenged and now I feel like it has like infiltrated in here almost or something.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And I think, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if part of it is just like generally me lately feeling kind of frustrated (pause) with not feeling I don't know. I'm feeling like things, you know, aren't going to get better or something. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like I'm -
Like the flipside of the (inaudible at 00:35:30) that I feel like I (inaudible) to a lot. That this is sort of like a stage. That it has to do with x, y, z. You know? Living at college, living at home, or you know, this thing I'm going through or that thing.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Like this will pass or something?
CLIENT: Yeah. You know, but then like when, I don't know. I guess I look at it sometimes and it seems more pervasive. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't know. And it's (pause) Yeah. I don't know.
THERAPIST: I was wondering about, because you know you brought up, I think when the whole deductible stuff came up back in January or February. I could tell that there was something about that to you that didn't feel right.
CLIENT: What about it?
THERAPIST: Well the whole, like the thousand dollars. And, you know, you sort of said, "Didn't you know about this?" You know? (laughs) You were asking me, "Did I know about this?" And in some way it just felt, I could tell there was something about it that you didn't feel right about. The way I handled it or the way it came about. I wonder if in some ways there is something about that too. [00:36:52]
Well maybe not the reason, having it being a reason or anything that you feel frustrated or something. But there's something about that being maybe a case in point of you feeling like, "Can I really go there." Can you really go there with me and tell me what all that meant to you and what it felt like.
I mean, you did. It's not that you didn't. But it also kind of was something that was dropped or it wasn't sort of We didn't talk about it anymore.
CLIENT: Yeah. No. It was, yeah. (pause) I don't know. I think at the time I might have It might have been sort of a (pause) like a boiling over point or something with feeling something kind of similar to this maybe. You know? (pause) And again, this is like, I don't know why, this just feels really [00:38:18]
This is something I would typically not only not say to you, but literally try to create the exact opposite impression or something. But I think at the time I think I may have felt like this is taking up a lot of my energy.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: And I think it might have I think I might have felt resentful or something. You know? Because I feel like (pause) I don't know. I was getting frustrated with like Just frustrated.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: You know.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Well it was a lot of your money, a lot of your energy (ph).
CLIENT: I think the money was the thing that could be talked about. You know? It was just a different kind of investment or commitment. Do you know what I mean? [00:39:28]
THERAPIST: Along with energy?
CLIENT: Yeah. With time, with -
THERAPIST: Ah.
CLIENT: The energy it takes to try to perform well here. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: To x, y and z. You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I don't know. (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah. Well where (inaudible 00:40:03)? (pause)
CLIENT: I feel like I'm going to leave here and leave you with the impression that, I don't know what impression, but the type like the opposite of what I feel like when I'm here and I'm doing this thing that I'm talking about that I do everywhere else. Like that I'm saying that I feel has infiltrated here. Like I feel like what I'm doing now is the opposite of that. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Undoing all that stuff?
CLIENT: I'm doing the opposite of what I feel kind of comfortable doing. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah.
CLIENT: I mean I could leave here and you could think about it for a couple of days and just be like, "God." I don't know.
THERAPIST: God?
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:41:04)
CLIENT: That I'm angry or I'm frustrated at you or something. I don't know.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: You know. And that, I don't know, makes me uncomfortable.
THERAPIST: What if you were angry? I mean, what do you think it would mean to me if you were angry or frustrated with me? (pause)
CLIENT: I'm not sure. I don't know if I'm angry and frustrated with you. So I don't know if I want you to feel that or think that.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Or not even you or like with this. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: Yeah, no, I think in a way that it might be hard for you to kind of, at least here, tap into those feelings that you're having because of some kind of concern about what's it going to be for me. What is it going to leave me with? What impression would the potential for various feelings mean to me? [00:42:24]
Almost so, I would imagine, it would make it hard then to kind of get into to your feelings. Is that It's like, don't even look over there because if you are pissed or you're angry or whatever, you know, it could really upset the apple cart or something like that. And leaving me with the opposite kind of sense of what you want to be, what you want me left with.
CLIENT: It seems to Yeah. It's the opposite. It's that opposite seems to come with a set of obligations that I don't feel prepared to take on or something like that.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah. No. But I'll tell what I heard when you said what you had to say about you wanting more out of this. You wanting more from me. You said that with a lot of kind of "umph." And it will leave an impression with me. [00:43:33]
CLIENT: And that makes me really uncomfortable. You know?
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: And just to, you know, full honesty, because I don't know if I should. You know? I don't know if I'm justified in wanting. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Justified?
CLIENT: I don't know if that's okay for me to I don't know if that's a good thing for me to say. Do you know what I mean? I don't know. Do you know what I mean? So it's -
THERAPIST: Well you're left with a lot of Well, yeah, it's a lot of ambiguity to me. But it's some way that you're trying to get into another aspect of things, it feels risky and different. But you said something. You know? (laughs) You said something to me. You said something to me that I didn't know about and was unfamiliar to me. You know? And I think if in some way you let me know something about it, you know something that it's hard for you to let me in on. [00:44:42]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And I heard you.
CLIENT: (laughs)
THERAPIST: I get the message.
CLIENT: And what do you think about that? What does it mean? Because that's all I'm thinking. You know, like how you received that. I don't know. Does that make sense?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, how do I receive it? I think it's to me it's very important. It's getting that something that you feel is going on here. That it doesn't seem to me to discount any of the work we've done. But instead to try to grow.
CLIENT: Huh. (laughs)
THERAPIST: And that it's been unsatisfying to have it feel like it's been hard to kind of get to some level of work that you've been wanting to get at with me. And you want me to help you with it. That's how I hear it. And that it's upsetting that I haven't been able to, or you, you know. Yeah, that the therapy hasn't been able to. [00:46:10]
It also makes me think of, I was thinking about, yeah, if you're going to work your ass off to get here two days a week while you're in law school, it better be worth it. (laughs) It better be worth it. It's your life.
CLIENT: Mm hm.
THERAPIST: You want something (laughs) You want this to You want something different out of this. And you don't want a therapy analysis if you want to call it that, which I think it is you don't want it to be half of what you're looking for. Or whatever percentage it is.
CLIENT: I don't want to fool myself and say that I'm -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I'm doing something about it if I'm not.
THERAPIST: Yes. That's why -
CLIENT: And I tell myself that I'm doing something about it. You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah. And I think in a way you saying all this, you know, at that moment is doing something about it.
CLIENT: Yeah. I mean it is funny because this definitely (pause) For what it's worth, this session has definitely broken with some of those characteristics that I'm talking about feeling frustrated with. [00:47:28]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, even just like the tautological (ph), but like yeah.
THERAPIST: I know. It was. It really felt different to me too, you know.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it feels I had a hard time explaining to you what I meant by "challenging," earlier. Like this feels more challenging for sure. Just merely by the fact that sometimes I feel like I talk for like 98 percent of the time that I'm here. Do you know what I mean? And then I leave and I'm like, "God I wish he talked more." Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: (laughs) But this just feels very even different in that sense, in that it's hard to even just kind of like get a couple of words sometimes. Do you know what I mean? [00:48:35]
THERAPIST: Mm. You mean, yeah, with how much I talked.
CLIENT: Or usually I feel like I talk way, a ton. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: And sometimes I'm angry. Sometimes I feel like I do it because I'm trying to take up space or something.
THERAPIST: Ah. Okay.
CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: Except as a way of deflection or something. Do you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And I feel like I'm not doing that.
THERAPIST: [Allowing the space to be there in some way.] (ph)
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. This definitely did feel a different whatever. Yeah. I feel inclined to want to tell you now that this was great. You know? [00:49:37]
THERAPIST: (laughs)
CLIENT: You know?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And obviously it was.
THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, no. But you're also talking about there's some sort of feeling, "I need to do it."
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Well. Alright.
CLIENT: Well, hey, Monday is a holiday.
THERAPIST: Monday is a holiday. Yeah.
CLIENT: Are you doing stuff?
THERAPIST: Yes. No, I won't be here. Yeah, I guess we didn't talk about that.
[recording ends abruptly]
END TRANSCRIPT
