TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: One other thing to tell you about my summer plans is I will be out, starting Thursday (this week), and then gone the following week. Then the 22nd, which is the 4th Monday of July, I'll be out as well. I'll be out the Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of that week.

CLIENT: (pause) So then July will be a light month.

THERAPIST: July will be a light month.

CLIENT: I think, I'll make sure that you have my plans in hand, too. [00:01:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. You've got your sister's wedding.

CLIENT: So you're gone, starting this Thursday.

THERAPIST: Starting this Thursday, yes. We won't meet, obviously, on Thursday...

CLIENT: The 4th, and nothing on the 8th or the 11th...

THERAPIST: Nor the 22nd. (audio fluctuation) And the 18th. And (inaudible).

CLIENT: The 22nd.

THERAPIST: Not the 22nd, and then back on the 25th. (audio resumes)

CLIENT: So then, basically then, it will be today, for July. It will today... (pause) The 15th, the 18th...

THERAPIST: 25th...

CLIENT: And the 25th. That will be it, then. Because then I'll be gone the 29th. [00:02:06]

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: All right? And... (pause)

THERAPIST: And when are you back?

CLIENT: So I'm back on Sunday, the 11th. I have a direct flight home from London.

THERAPIST: Oh, you're gone for two weeks? Oh, wow, that's...

CLIENT: Yeah, I'll be gone two weeks. I get back on the 11th, but I start... So we're going to have to, this will be with the new, my new schedule. We'll have to come in to check (ph) because I get back on the 11th, I start school on the 12th of August, 9(:00) to5(:00), that whole week for orientation. (therapist affirms) So, we may have to kind of just see how that takes shape. (therapist affirms) [00:03:07]

That week, they just said 9(:00) to 5(:00), that whole week is orientation. My classes start on the 19th, and I'll get my schedule for what that's going to look like the week of the 12th. So it may not be until then that I'm even able to see what, you know, what times would be schedule-able. (therapist affirms)

Yeah, but when I get back, too, it'll be the new thing with the new insurance and everything seriously will be, plenty of stuff to try to figure out.

THERAPIST: To hash out, yeah. I mean, does it kick in August 1st, or is it...

CLIENT: I believe so. That's my understanding, is August 1st, I don't know. But... yeah, yeah. (therapist affirms) So lots of stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. What are you thinking about all that? All the, you know, we're going to have some extended gaps. What, you know, what does that all, how's that all...? [00:04:09]

CLIENT: I don't know. I mean, it kind of just falls into this greater topic of, you know, just like everything transitioning then, you know what I mean? Leaving my job, my job's... You know, it's a whole, everything is kind of getting kind of flipped on its head, you know what I mean? So it's just kind of seems to fall into that category of like...

THERAPIST: Yeah, like a transition, things changing...

CLIENT: Yeah. Just seems like one piece out of a big series of changes that will be coming into effect. I'm looking forward to getting to the other end of... I'm looking forward to getting to the trip. That will be fun, and when I get back, I'll be on a bit more of a predictable, kind of, schedule. My money will be a little bit more planned out, because with my loans and everything, so... A lot of the stuff that kind of has been the essence of this year, in terms of just money and stuff will be sort of taken care of when I'm back into a more familiar routine and everything, so... I look forward to that. [00:05:27]

(pause) Yeah, that'll be a long time, though. That'll be a big, that'll be a big, ah... It will be maybe like over a month of pretty limited touching base. (therapist affirms) Which will be like the longest that we've really kind of done that, I suppose. I don't know, how do you, what do you imagine? I imagine that will be weird, not being into that while I'm (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yeah, in terms of, what do I imagine...?

CLIENT: Like what's the, what's the impact...

THERAPIST: It's so... it really, it really, it's so unique, it's so...

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: So... Yeah. I mean, it's going to be...

CLIENT: I don't...

THERAPIST: Like, in my mind, I don't have like a kind of an idea of exactly what it will look like for us. It's... But, I think it will be... I don't know. Something that... you know, if you... kind of... I'll be curious about what you're finding it to be like. [00:06:37]

CLIENT: Yeah, I'll be curious what it feels like on a day to day thing, to not be kind of coming here, and seeing what that's like. Yeah. It will be interesting to see.

THERAPIST: And yeah, in any particular, any specific way that you...?

CLIENT: I don't know, just in a way that, you know, sometimes, if I try to stop smoking, you know? It's like, "Oh," you know? You just, you notice what it's like without this thing that you do regularly, and don't even... It just seems it's part of your everyday routine, you know what I mean? I wonder, yeah, if it will feel like there is a gaping hole or something, or if not.

But I will say, though, and I mean, I don't know, don't take this the wrong way; I feel weird saying it. But I feel... You know, obviously, I really, really enjoy coming here, you know what I mean? I really, really like it. But there does, something seems sort of nice or maybe novel, about having a couple of weeks off a bit, a little bit. (therapist affirms) [00:07:57]

I don't know why, I don't know. I mean, just me saying it and uttering that, I feel like I want to like, redact it and modify it or something, you know what I mean? Because I feel like it's sounding not like what I think, but...

THERAPIST: Huh!

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like what I was saying, I think a little while ago. It's an energy commitment of... (pause), kind of emotional and mental kind of resources commitment, you know what I mean? I don't know, I don't know. [00:08:56]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Like you're kind of spent from it, in some sense.

CLIENT: Sort of, yeah, yeah. It's... You know, sometimes... You know, like this morning, you know what I mean, like I'm really... You know, I was tired this morning, I worked until like, you know, 12 last night in Yale. There is... You know, they had shuttle buses replacing service, I didn't get home, I guess, until like 2, you know what I mean? (pause) Sometimes I just feel like I don't have the wherewithal to dig into some of the stuff that we talk about, you know what I mean? I feel like some of the things we talk about, it's... yeah. It takes a lot out of me, sometimes. [00:09:58]

THERAPIST: What do you find? What do you, yeah, what do you find about that, that takes a lot out of you (ph) /blocked?

CLIENT: It's not... You know, I think I was explaining it to you a while ago. I mean, this is totally separate from it being like, enjoyable or worth my time or something, but sometimes it's... (pause) It doesn't feel like just pure relaxation sometimes, you know what I mean? It feels... (pause) You know, sometimes I leave and sometimes I'm really glad with where we got to, but sometimes it's like... You know, it's not the happiest type of stuff, you know what I mean? It's not like a 50 minute like, boost all the time, you know what I mean? (pause) Am I making sense? You know what I mean? [00:11:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. You mean, like...

CLIENT: Like I don't want to think about the stuff that we talk about here, you know what I mean? Which is like, what I did before I came here. I just didn't think about it, you know what I mean? I didn't do that, you know what I mean? On some level, there was like a... you know, escape from that stuff, from some level, you know what I mean? (therapist affirms) But that's the same reason that I appreciate coming here, because it's a... It's providing something that pushes me into thinking about the stuff that I wouldn't do otherwise, you know what I mean? So obviously there are the two sides of it, you know what I mean? [00:11:41]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. No, and... but you're giving that some of the impact this has on you, which is... you know... I realize there is that element of like, if you're talking about the kind of the, you know, some of the cost it has to you, the way you feel spent by it, emotionally or like financially, but there is like a, I think you feel, risk of like, it... Well, you end up feeling like, "Does that need to be redacted? Does that need, do those feelings need to be, you know, like... What do you do with those when you feel appreciative as well? What, you know, how... you know. Is that going to, you know, sully something here, between us or...?" (client affirms) [00:12:35]

You know, and you brought up things recently, you know, about how you feel like this, how you want this to affect you and help you, feeling like you want more from me, and, you know, and... And yet worrying that, to say those things, what's it going to do? What's it going to do? I think, though, that it's... Well, that said, yeah, there is something here about the impact of all these feelings it has on you that it actually... while you're able to say it, because there is something that... you know, until you say it, I wasn't kind of really clued in on. You know, I was thinking about your message on Thursday, or I was talking on Thursday about, you know, you being under the weather. You know, I felt like it also sounded like you're tired. (client affirms) You were just, you were kind of spent. [00:13:41]

CLIENT: I was exhausted, yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: And something about coming here and having to kind of push your way through, something about...

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, it's... yeah. It's 50 minutes of, there is an energy to it, you know what I mean? Like I know on some level, I was talking about it a while ago, it's like I feel like I have to perform here or something, like... (therapist affirms) Which was thinking about it in a way that I'd like to get away from, sort of like, feeling like I'm being judged on, and so forth, but... (pause) You know... That being said, I mean, yeah, I mean, I feel like I... (pause) Yeah, it's not something that I just sort of like, just glide through, you know what I mean? It definitely requires more energy than 50 minutes spent somewhere else, you know what I mean? [00:14:43]

THERAPIST: I also think you put it pretty well, starting about the whole piece about, you know, you've been doing, you know, you've felt like a lot of your life, you've been able to kind of... Well, not... It's with its cost, but you know... It's been a lot of thoughts and feelings that you've sort of say, like, holding at bay, in some way.

CLIENT: Yeah, I can do that. I can do that with a lot less sort of immediate sort of expenditure of energy, you know what I mean? (therapist affirms) You know? But (inaudible), I mean that's also what is unique and makes this worth it, that it, for whatever reason, is the set of circumstances and dynamics that, for whatever reason, I do kind of expend that energy when I wouldn't otherwise, you know what I mean? But... [00:15:47]

THERAPIST: Just so you're clear, all right? (both chuckle)

CLIENT: Yeah! But, you know, I just sort (inaudible/blocked) of repeat it to myself, seriously.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I guess I didn't, I guess I've never really completely thought about it that way, but... (pause) Yeah. You know, because this, this is... You know, I commit a lot to coming here. You know, financially for me, you know, which is... In my mind, there is just always like just sort of like a quantifier (ph), because I'm always planning out my money, dollars, my dollars and... It's just a constant reminder to me, just seeing it like, just a, like a dollars and cents, like it literally can like put it next to other things, you know? And seeing how, you know, comfortable I am always doing it, you know (inaudible) of doing it always reminds me, but... [00:16:57]

You know, there are times when... And sometimes like when things are getting tighter, you know, if I'm tired and just sort of like mentally, emotionally I feel a little bit kind of stretched, or financially... You know, sometimes I just have these thoughts like, (pause) of just sort feeling even more resentful towards whatever it is that might bring me here, you know? As if I'm, it's just another way that I'm trapped in it, trapped and beholden (ph) to these things, as opposed to breaking free from it, or something. You know what I mean? [00:17:55]

THERAPIST: Yeah! And work you have to do, cost you have to pay, and that kind of thing for working this stuff...

CLIENT: In order to deal with some of it, and then as such, that I'm still sort of reacting to it and having, you know, like, having things dictated by it, you know what I mean? Beholden to it, or something. (pause) Yeah, I think that sometimes. I don't know.

THERAPIST: What, what just...?

CLIENT: No, I don't know what to, what to infer from that, but... Sometimes I want to say, to like my parents, like, you know, I imagine saying to my parents, like, "You guys should pay for this!" [00:18:52]

THERAPIST: "Chip in!"

CLIENT: Yeah! I feel like, "This is, you know, at least in a large part of it, you know, about cleaning up your mess, right? Maybe you should be paying for this!" You know? I don't know; does that sound crazy? I think that in my head sometimes!

THERAPIST: No, it's crazy in a (inaudible/blocked)

CLIENT: I feel like weird talking about it like, I feel like this before we talk about it, you know? More than after the time, you know? Especially recently. Because I think that, you know? (pause) Like, I remember when this stuff started, like my money problems started kind of happening with my dad, and I had to go to my mom and ask her for money. Then she started lecturing me about money. You know, in the back of my mind, I was just like, "This wouldn't be a problem if I wasn't spending as much on rent, you know, going to therapy, you know; to deal with your mess!" You know? [00:19:49]

THERAPIST: Who's not being responsible?

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly, yeah! You know, even my mom. I remember, I just don't know why, I'll never forget what she said; "Geoffrey, you've got to get on top of your money!" You know? And in my head, I was just like, "Oh, geez! You've got to get on top of, you know, being a mom or something!" I don't know. I don't know, I just, it's like...

THERAPIST: What is, yeah. What did you mean by that?

CLIENT: I felt very, I just resented it so much, what she was saying.

THERAPIST: (pause) Yeah. Huh! Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause) Yeah. I imagine saying stuff like that to my mom and my dad sometimes.

THERAPIST: Well, it's great that you said, that you asked me like, "Is this crazy?" What, what did you feel about saying...? [00:20:46]

CLIENT: That idea, of like, you should be, I don't know. Like, is that, is that like an oversimplification of it? Do I have to come here every, you know, because of my parents, or whatever, I don't know.

THERAPIST: It's a feeling.

CLIENT: It's a feeling that I have?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's definitely a feeling that I have. Yeah, definitely is.

THERAPIST: Yeah, like What the hell! I'm trying to work on this stuff that I never got a chance to... You know, or I was left to deal with and I had to find my own ways of dealing with it! (client affirms) This is not what I asked for!

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if I didn't have, yeah. I would have gladly have never gotten to the point where I felt like I had to call here, you know? No disrespect to you, of course (therapist chuckles), but you know, if I had, yeah, you know? Like, that was a really unfortunate time for me, I really don't, wouldn't want to be back there. [00:21:45]

THERAPIST: No, it's so, it's yeah. I was thinking like is it...I mean, there is a lot to it, but I was thinking like... or just one thing that I'm thinking... You know, you schlepping back and forth, you know, working late last night, hopping a train back, coming back in. I was wondering, does it feel at all like, yeah, you're doing almost like, you know, cleaning up, all to clean up somebody else's mess, in a way. Is there that kind of element (inaudible/blocked)? CLIENT: Yeah, I just, yeah. I think about it that way sometimes.

THERAPIST: Yeah! Yeah, that's really important.

CLIENT: I definitely do. I definitely do.

THERAPIST: Huh! Huh! [00:22:38]

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah. It's a very different way for me to think about my relationship with my parents. Even to think about there being, like a mess to clean up. That's not something I would have, you know. even probably six months ago, probably not the way I would have ever thought about it.

You know, I think when I first started coming here, I... I don't think I would have had as direct of a line or a nexus between some of my discomfort and my relationship with my parents, you know what I mean? It's a different way for me to just conceptualize my relationship with them, you know? [00:23:40]

And it's interesting because on one level, you know, through our discussions here, the way that I view my relationship with my parents, just in a more abstract, even like, historical narrative sort of what is, you know, who's deserving of what, x, y, and z. All these things have definitely changed and... On the other hand, and I don't usually think about these things as being totally connected, but, just my day-to-day relationship with both of them has changed so much over the last couple of months.

THERAPIST: Huh!

CLIENT: So, so much! Where I don't talk to my dad now for like, a week and half at a time. Then he'll text me and be very kind of like... Whereas before, if we didn't talk for a day or two, you know, it would be kind of like this very sort of indicting like, messages, like, "Oh, you're not calling me back! What's going on? Call me! We're all busy, you can find a few minutes to call me!" Whereas now, he won't even call me for like a week and a half, and then he'll send me a very kind of gentle text message, just like, "How's it going? I miss you." You know, how did he, he just takes a very different approach, you know? [00:25:00]

I don't' feel as... he doesn't really call every single day like he used to; but if he did, I wouldn't feel like I have to stop every single thing I was doing, and go somewhere where I could talk to him, where it would be quiet, and there wouldn't be background noise, so he wouldn't get angry on the phone, you know what I mean? (therapist affirms) He doesn't pester me about going up there anymore, ever.

THERAPIST: Is that right? Huh!

CLIENT: Yeah. Anymore, ever!

THERAPIST: Wow!

CLIENT: You know, I talk to him, you know, he's like, "Oh, I'd love to see you," and he'd be like, "Yeah, you know, anytime you want to come into the city, Bethany and I'd be more than happy to see you." I think a while ago, he asked me once, "Are you guys, you know, when are you going to come up for a weekend?" I was like, "I work seven days a week, Dad. If you want to hang out for a weekend, you can come and crash in Belmont with us, but I don't imagine you want to sleep in someone else's house for the weekend. Laney and I don't really want to, either," you know? [00:26:02]

THERAPIST: I was wondering, um... Oh, you mean, you don't want to go up there!

CLIENT: Yeah! Yeah, it's not my home. You know? I don't know. I work a lot to have a place in Belmont, you know? Not just to go sleep in someone else's home, I guess, you know what I mean? So there is none of that.

(pause) Yeah, I guess it's just interesting, you know? One would have to assume that, on some level, one is following the other, you know? Like those changes are sort of a result of the discussions that we're having here. I would feel pretty confident in saying that. (pause) But I guess it's just worth saying that out loud, because... (pause) I think sometimes I feel... (pause) In light of it, in light of... how much I feel like I commit to this, sometimes I get frustrated that everything's not great, you know, everything's not perfect. You know what I mean? [00:27:34]

That like... Did you see Good Will Hunting? You know, I didn't have one of those moments like a Tin Pan (ph) movie and then everything was fine afterwards type experiences, do you know what I mean? But I think it's worth reflecting on the fact, that there are certainly tangible changes which are pretty big in this area (ph). Like, I never thought that that type of shit with my dad would ever really stop. I couldn't imagine it, you know? (pause) Yeah. Do you get what I'm saying? (therapist affirms) It is worth, like, acknowledging some of that stuff. [00:28:38]

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. I think too, it's you're trying to... Seems to me like you're sort of... you know... finding room here for, finding room here to kind of acknowledge the frustrating aspects of this to you, without it kind of polluting something or messing something up, you know? What I think is, that is a pretty important thing for you to do as well, because I think, in a way... You know, one thing that seems like you've been articulating to me is how difficult it is, it's been in your life to be kind of in contact with feeling, you know, frustrated with your folks about any number of things, but particularly, about when the issue of what it's like to be the son of your two parents comes up. (client affirms) [00:29:45]

And really, or in different ways with each parent, yeah, but, worrying about the kind of... the almost like, the polluting effect of the frustration you feel and wanting to... (pause) You know, it's always kind of, it seems to me like, been a question in your mind in some conscious and unconscious way, like... You know like, what is this going to do in our relationship? You know, like what do these feelings mean in the context of relationship with them, with my folks? In different ways? And you having to, I think, feel like, "I have to keep those at bay in order for, for you to sustain something with both of your parents." (client affirms) You know?

And it seems to me like, with your father I see it, you know, really clearly, because we've been talking about it very specifically, about you bringing in this other element to your father. You know, you really kind of being like... You know, "I'm not working for you anymore," (chuckles) you know? "I'm not going up there, I'm not calling you anymore. It's going to be a little bit different." And... You know, finding the space for that. [00:31:15]

And I think that's kind of what it seems like these discussions around your mom and her kind of... You know, her imploring you to kind of check in with grandparents more often (inaudible). And, of course, you need to be able to feel like, if you want to feel like it's gotten to a place here too, frustrating things about therapy, about you know, stuff that you're feeling from me that isn't, that might not be happening as you've pointed out a few weeks back. You know, that kind of stuff.

CLIENT: Um-hmm. (pause) Yeah. (pause 00:31:55 to 00:32:10) Like, with my dad, I felt like... And I don't think I totally acknowledged this, because I guess I just thought of it as just very self-evident, but I think I've spoken about this. I think the frame that I kind of assumed in the past with him was that... Yeah, yeah, I guess we've spoken about this explicitly, that there was either like, status quo, which was sort of me rolled over on my back, or me sort of asserting any of my thoughts and feelings, which would inevitably just turn into just like a brutal fight, argument, like fist fight on the front lawn, never talking to each other again type thing. You know what I mean? [00:33:03]

I guess... On some level, I feel like I still resort back to that kind of crude binary (ph) or something, you know? Which I think are lessons (ph) sometimes I overlook. The fact that it doesn't really seem to playing out that way, ultimately. It's playing out in a better way, of what I mean, ultimately would be a much more preferable sort of intermediary sort of dynamic. Or I feel like I'm much more able to be a little bit more assertive with some of my thoughts and feelings towards him, on a very superficial level, even. But in a way that plays out, in a way that I didn't think really, would even be able to. Even just like the, just the way that we are now, even.

(pause 00:34:00 to 00:34:10) Which definitely feels different. (pause) And definitely provides some kind of a vague answer, I think, in reflection. You know, if I was to sort of step back and look at it, like to that question, like what happens if there are kind of two different things going on there, you know what I mean? Like what room is there? I think on some level, I have to say that, you know, apparently that there, there is likely a little bit more room than I think maybe I had initially suspected. Does that make sense? See what I'm saying? (therapist affirms)

(pause 00:34:54 to 00:35:05) Yeah. Which is odd, though, because on some level I feel... like right now, I feel a little bit better even with my father than I do with my mom. I feel like there has like, been a little bit of progress even, with my dad, which with my mom, I don't feel that quite as much, to the same extent. (pause) There is still a lot of the... (pause) A lot of the same stuff going on around my grandparents, and what not; I don't know, about seeing them and stuff. And I feel a little less... I still feel a little scared when she calls, that were going to get into one of those conversations again. I still kind of fear those talks. You know what I mean? [00:36:23]

Which is odd, because it was always kind of the other way around. I always felt like I felt way more comfortable with my mother than with my father. That would like, that was just sort of always the dynamic. But right now, right now I worry about talking to my mom at times, because when these conversations come up (which I feel like are just kind of continue to get more and more sort of charged as my grandparents get older and older, and inevitably approach their demise), that type of stuff is going to just get more and more kind of emotionally charged. But...Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, like it's almost as if it will push you both to kind of confront what you're real, what's happening, or what you're really feeling. (client affirms) I think that does bring up some anxiety for you. [00:37:33]

CLIENT: And it's not the way that I typically... I don't know. I guess I always felt more in control with my mom, in some of those ways. Do you know what I mean? Less at the mercy of (ph) /blocked) her, kind of judgments or something. Which was really kind of what encapsulated my relationship with my dad, you know?

But I think one of the things here that I've really sort of unearthed about my mom (if I, again, if I sort of step back and look at it), was, I think there are things about my mom and the way that she relates to me, the way that she talks to me, and the way that she does a lot of things that really, really, really irritate me (some of which might have to do with my dad), but maybe I'm not just purely like a ricochet off my dad. [00:38:39]

Things that I couldn't actually hold her... I don't want to say hold responsible for, but... Like the things that we've been talking about with my mom. The... (pause) Her sort of not acknowledging the difference or pulling factions between her and my dad and sort of glossing over some of those complications with the way that she tries to get me to talk to and to relate, and to act with (inaudible) some of my family. (therapist affirms) To think about that as just something that like she's not doing, is different than the way that I've always thought about her. [00:39:44]

THERAPIST: To think about her as something she's what?

CLIENT: Something that my mom isn't. (therapist affirms) (inaudible/blocked) It's just not her, just being a victim of my dad. That's a really, really, really different way for me to think about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I hear that.

CLIENT: My mom was always the sort of like "sacrificial lamb" in a way that I thought about it, you know what I mean? And anything that she did that frustrated me was just sort of like, the by-product of something that my dad did to her. Which made me feel like I just had, I couldn't get upset with her about it, couldn't get upset with her about anything that she did that bothered me with respect to family because it was... You know? It wasn't her fault, or something. You know what I mean? [00:40:39]

(pause) But to think that I could actually like, say, like, "Mom I think that you're doing something that I think is problematic on some level, but I think that the way that you're... behaving in the context of family could use some modification. And I think that you could be expected to think that and be held responsible for that." And that is totally new. Does that make sense to you? What I'm saying?

THERAPIST: Radical and new...

CLIENT: Like that's, yeah. Sometimes when I say things, I feel like it's just really, it sounds really like simple? It doesn't seem to... Yeah, like I feel like on some level, you should be able to say that you could make a very sort of un-radical statement like that about like almost anyone, that they could be expected to be held responsible for the way that they behave and the way that they act or something, that if you do something, then you should be able to be held accountable for it. Like, but that's... that feels like entirely new ground for me with my mom. (therapist affirms) You know? [00:42:04]

THERAPIST: Yeah, and when you say it, though, you sort of get this feeling that to me, it's almost self-evident like, "Oh, yeah, it's just now dawning on you now," or something?

CLIENT: When I say it out loud. When I say out loud what I feel like I've been thinking, then I almost (inaudible) saying it to myself.

THERAPIST: Is that right? Yeah? What do you say? Yeah. Obviously...?

CLIENT: I'm just like, "God, like... Of course!" You know? It makes me feel almost silly or something.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (pause) That's a very different, it's a very, very different way for me to think about my mom. (therapist affirms) By saying it to you, I worry if it's even right, you know what I mean? I don't know. I feel uncomfortable saying it on multiple levels. [00:43:03]

THERAPIST: If it's right in, what, how do you mean?

CLIENT: I feel uncomfortable if it's just so obviously right, so self-evident that it's like, I'm revealing that I was thinking something so silly prior to realizing that. And then I also wonder if... Maybe that's, maybe that's not right, you know? I don't know.

THERAPIST: I see, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

CLIENT: I feel like I'm taking a stand and like planting a flag somewhere that I'm not that confident about, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Have you planted it in the right place?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (pause) But nonetheless, it seems something I can quabble (ph) about (chuckles), which I couldn't even before, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: No, that's right, yeah, yeah. [00:44:01]

CLIENT: Even being able to say it and then back up from it is like, it's pretty different (chuckles) in itself, you know?

(pause 00:44:11 to 00:44:24) I don't know. I guess for the last few minutes what I just really wanted to do was... I mean, what are you asking me like, "What's that going to feel like, not being here for awhile?" (pause) I guess I kind of, I see, after this trip and starting law school, as like a new stage of my life, a new dawn, a new era.

(pause 00:44:50 to 00:45:00) I don't know. I guess I don't want to, I guess I just wanted to just reflect a little bit on some feelings of progress that I've made. (therapist affirms) You know? (therapist affirms) In the light of the effort and the energy. (therapist affirms) It feels really good to talk about this stuff. (therapist affirms) You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's funny, it seems like I was thinking about... You know, just for what it's worth, I guess what was in my head, everything we've talked about seems like really relevant and important. I was thinking in addition to that, you know that... I guess what came to my mind was in the next, you know, month, it's going to be a bit more of, yeah, less work or something. But also maybe in that like, you're going to be, I think... I was thinking about how you put it in terms like, "I'm very good at, I can handle putting that stuff, a lot of these feelings, aside." I was thinking about how maybe this month in some way is going to require that you feel you have to do that a bit more, you know? [00:46:35]

CLIENT: It's going to feel on some level like a release; on another level, it's going to feel like having my training wheels taken off. (therapist affirms) In different ways. (therapist affirms) You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: I see, yeah. That's right. It's got the, it's certainly got that... you know. You can see what it's like (chuckles)...

CLIENT: Yeah, it'll make more work and less work, in different ways. But...

(pause 00:47:05 to 00:47:29) I recognize it's time, so I'm hesitant to...

THERAPIST: Well, we started a couple of minutes...

CLIENT: Did we?

THERAPIST: Yeah, we started couple of minutes late.

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah, I don't know. I'll definitely... Yeah, like I'm going to be going to this like wedding, you know? Me going into a lot of family, seeing some family I haven't seen since before I started coming here, you know what I mean? So I, when I think about it, there are moments where I imagine to myself like... that I would want to be able to like come here, and I wouldn't be able to. It would be out of reach, you know what I mean? Whereas it is... I don't have to reach for it now, because it's here, you know, it's here twice a week, you know what I mean?

(pause) There are definitely a comfort that comes with that, you know what I mean? A lot of times when stuff comes up, I can just almost say to myself, "I'll table this." It's only ever going to be like two days before I get to come back here, you know what I mean? I don't' know. There is a comfort with that, but... You know, I don't know. [00:48:51]

THERAPIST: That's right, that's right, yeah. Yeah, two weeks in mostly Wales, right?

CLIENT: France and Scotland. She lives in Scotland now, so it will be in Edinburgh.

THERAPIST: And the wedding is in...

CLIENT: Edinburgh.

THERAPIST: It's in Edinburgh?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh! And then everybody from Wales is going to come...?

CLIENT: Some people from there, but not everybody. I mean, I don't think we know exactly who yet, but...

THERAPIST: Wow! Yeah. That's two weeks of family. (pause) That's right, France. (client affirms) Who's up in France?

CLIENT: My friend, Phil (sp). I don't know if I mentioned to you.

THERAPIST: You did mention that, yeah.

CLIENT: I'll probably try to stay with him for as long as I can, before going down to Edinburgh and family.

THERAPIST: Where is he in France?

CLIENT: He's in Le Havre, France. I went and I visited him once in high school.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah?

CLIENT: On break, for vacation, yeah. It was great, a lot of fun. So it will be good.

THERAPIST: I guess we'll have, well, sometime before you head out on that.

CLIENT: Yeah, absolutely. So Thursday?

THERAPIST: Yeah, Thursday... No! Not this Thursday.

CLIENT: You're gone; that's right.

THERAPIST: That's right, yeah.

CLIENT: So what's um...

THERAPIST: Yeah! So, yeah, I'm...

CLIENT: This here, next time I come in?

THERAPIST: It's not going to be till the...

CLIENT: Well, I have that written down.

THERAPIST: The 15th, yeah.

CLIENT: So the 15th. Is it cool if I give you a check for this then?

THERAPIST: Yeah, sure.

CLIENT: And that's okay? (therapist affirms) All right, great. See you then!

THERAPIST: Yeah, cool.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's great.

CLIENT: For some reason this whole meeting, I was telling myself that it was Thursday I was going to be here, but... Great, so the 15th.

THERAPIST: 15th, yeah.

CLIENT: All right. Thanks.

THERAPIST: All right, see you then!

CLIENT: See you then!

THERAPIST: In a couple of weeks.

CLIENT: Okay. Have a good time.

THERAPIST: Hey, thank you. Thank you.

CLIENT: You're welcome.

THERAPIST: Yeah, thanks.

END TRANSCRIPT