TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Yeah I know. But I'm going to check after like a minute just to make sure it's recording.

CLIENT: Absolutely. I don't how to explain it. Kind of an eventful week with respect to things that I need to talk about or something. I kind of found myself at some point towards the end of last week or this week just kind of looking at my money situation like I typically do. I usually am pretty serious about keeping written records of everything and putting on my calendar when my bills are coming up and a little bit more so than Laney is. Laney, I think, probably because I do it so scrutinizing, she probably doesn't pay much attention to it. But it just sort of, as if it just came out of the blue at like the beginning of the...probably the beginning of this week, I was just like man, I just don't have no money. You know.

[01:38]

Typically, I would pay a little bit more for rent most months, particularly when Laney was in school when she did, which I was fine about. But I just kind of looked at it and did the math. I was just like, my God; I'm not going to have enough money for rent. I'm not going to have enough for my half. And it's really weird because typically I'm so; I see these things coming for weeks and stuff. I had a couple of days where I was just really down and hard on myself and I felt like I had really messed up. I felt angry at myself. I felt like a shame. I felt immature. I felt irresponsible. I don't know. I was just really really bothered by it.

And I was also bothered by the fact that I didn't seem to be able to figure out why based upon the fact that it just hadn't really been a problem up until now. Up until now I had been tight on money, but we had money all the time. We pulled everything off. I didn't understand what as different. I didn't understand why it wasn't working. And I was just getting mad at myself.

And I don't know what it was. I think it was a...is it gone?

THERAPIST: It is gone. Thanks.

CLIENT: I think Tuesday, I went to see my dad; needed to drop off some of the stuff that I had been working on for him. And I thought I was going to be able to go over stuff because we're usually rushed and everything and I just dropped it off. I wasn't even able to finish the last couple of pages of printing stuff off that I wanted to because I ran out of ink and I didn't have any money to buy any more ink.

THERAPIST: Oh, you were printing stuff at your place?

[03:26]

CLIENT: Yeah, and that's like a lot of the stuff that I was doing; I was printing out like jury instructions and stuff. And I kind of said to my dad I was like maybe if you could just front me a few bucks for like some ink, I could finish this or something. He was like oh, I don't have any money on me now or anything. And I was like alright, whatever. And he gave me a printer that he had in the office that he thought would work and didn't have any ink in it. When I got home, but then later that night I was like my dad hasn't paid me. My dad has paid me once. I've been out of work for three weeks at my other job this month, and he paid me for one week, basically. And it was really really bizarre because on Tuesday, this like consumed my entire day.

THERAPIST: The thinking about the money part or the realization that he your dad didn't pay you?

CLIENT: Yeah, this realization. Like me like stumbling upon that piece of information. Me sort of saying like why isn't there so much money here? And then all of a sudden this like incredibly obvious sort of reason came out. I was like well, I quit a job and nothing took its place to a satisfactory level. Or like my dad and I had discussed very clearly it would. And yeah, I mean I had been thinking about it like crazy since then.

One of the things that really struck me was the fact that even though my dad and I were super super clear when we set up this agreement, you know, I told him how much money I'm making at the job that I'm leaving, I told him how much money I needed to make, I told him that I needed a certain amount of money before the first of the month; I was very, you know, multiple times we had this conversation and made sure that it was clear. I wasn't just going to jump in to this and be like, oh, this thing can work because I knew that I was living paycheck to paycheck, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[05:38]

CLIENT: And what I thought was so interesting about it was the fact that I just didn't consider that.

THERAPIST: Like it didn't even occur to you.

CLIENT: It was very evident. He had, in multiple ways, like really really failed to live up to the set of terms that we very very clearly laid out for each other.

THERAPIST: What were they...did he...?

CLIENT: I said multiple times that I don't want to stop my other job until I know I can start with you because I need money at the end of the month. I made it very very clear multiple multiple times. And granted, I probably could have been maybe a little articulate about it, but that's even like the fact that I didn't do that is what I think is interesting.

And even when I went to see my dad and I told him, I said dad I don't have any money. I can't even finish this for you, you know, because I don't have enough money to get the supplies to do this for you. And it didn't even occur to him.

THERAPIST: It didn't occur to him why you...

[06:55]

CLIENT: It didn't even occur to me.

THERAPIST: And what was the deal? Like he was going to pay you at the end of every week?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: Yeah, because that's like how I get paid at all my other jobs.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: The restaurant paid me like that, the university paid me like that, but...what I was thinking about a lot was like he did this and for like four or five days I just like blamed myself and was just like so angry at myself. And was completely unable to consider the possibility that he might have been like in the wrong to the point that when I went and I saw him that day I was like embarrassed to tell him that I didn't have money.

THERAPIST: It still wasn't clicking in that...

CLIENT: No, it wasn't until I actually got home later that day and I couldn't do anymore of the work he wanted me to. I was just like sitting at home and I was just sort of stagnating in the living room and...

THERAPIST: Wow, yeah.

CLIENT: And it just, wow, yeah. I don't know. I remember thinking it and it was like revolutionary idea or something. I don't know. I couldn't get off of it.

THERAPIST: Wow, yeah.

[08:29]

CLIENT: I don't know; jus the fact that I wouldn't...I don't know. It literally took something like my dad did, like a failure of my dad and...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: I just like blamed myself for it.

THERAPIST: It was as if like that in that old school jargon like that part of your consciousness was not available to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, and this is the only way you could put it. Like there was something that was deeply kept out of my like conscience accessibility. And the way that I just happened to stumble about it, it was like 1 + 1 = 2. It was just like how could anyone with a brain not put that together. You know what I mean? And yeah, I don't know. I just thought about it for days. I talked to Laney about it for a long time. And after a while, what I...it felt good to get access to that, you know. And when I was talking to Laney about it and it reminded me of our conversation on Monday because it was, I was thinking about where we left it; like I think my dad's like a really...you know I could really really criticize my dad about a lot of things, but it's typically always about things that he has sort of done to other people.

THERAPIST: To other people. Right.

[10:05]

CLIENT: And like what I drew from that was I really can't like think of anything that my dad did to me like was bad. Like even like little instances, the little things like the vent in the car kind of sticks out because it was just like the only thing I could think of, you know what I mean? And I don't know; it just made me think like this must be what exactly my mom goes through with my dad all the time, you know. Like if I ask my dad about money now or something, you know like even when we talk to him, he came over that night; like when I ran around trying to clean up the house, I would even like try to broach the topic of money and try to like figure it out; we could set up this payment thing right now online so you can just pay me online or something, and he was just kind of rolling his eyes and said we'll figure it out.

THERAPIST: Oh is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: He said we'll figure it out.

CLIENT: Yeah, oh yeah, we'll figure it out, yeah. And it's just that it wasn't pressing to him, you know what I mean. But it has put Laney and I, literally, living on scraps for like the last few weeks.

THERAPIST: Wow, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It's funny too, because I was speaking with Laney on must have been Tuesday night about it, and I was telling her about it and she was like you know I was thinking about it when we were talking last week when you were first starting to get worried about money this month. And she was like I kind of thought that; that just seemed really obvious to me, but I didn't want to ask you because I think she's like very sensitive to prodding or insinuating things between me and my dad.

[11:56]

THERAPIST: Even she caught on to whatever...

CLIENT: Yeah, but she was like aware of it. I would have thought...she said she would have felt uncomfortable or something asking me, as if she would be like saying something negative about my dad.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: If I said to Laney, Laney I need [inaudible 12:13] on this one. You know what I mean? And she said that she at the same time, she was even kind of wondering and felt inclined to ask me but didn't, why are you even so excited to work with your dad? You know. And she basically articulated like exactly the thing that I was talking about the last time which was like why are you so sort of excited and eager to sort of get involved in and interact with someone that you seem to be so critical of otherwise? She literally laid it out like right in those terms, you know. And I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm just rambling now. I don't know; it's just it seemed...I don't know. Even when I was thinking about it during the week, it just seemed weird because it just seems like such a simple like not profound experience or something; just if you looked at it from like someone else's point of view. You know what I mean?

[13:37]

THERAPIST: Were you thinking I was [inaudible 13:40] or something?

CLIENT: No, I don't know. Not really. I don't know. I just felt good. I felt like I was able to imagine a scenario where I was sitting down with my dad and I was able to like get angry at him and have him come back and have me be able to completely explain in a way that I didn't or I couldn't imagine it for a while.

THERAPIST: Yeah, well it's like you said that somehow I think this is actually where we left off on Monday in some ways was this feeling that you had that your anger; you can find an anger within yourself towards your dad when he does something to somebody else, but not to you. And then you found it in yourself.

CLIENT: I found it, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't imagine that there was a...that there wasn't some sort of nexus between that, those two things on some level, but like I felt like I was almost wanting to like call you on Tuesday to see if I could come on...

THERAPIST: Yeah, right.

CLIENT: You know. Like I never felt...I come in here and I'm always anxious about the fact that I'm speaking about something that's worth speaking about. On Tuesday, I almost felt comfortable enough to like tell you to rearrange your schedule around me because I have something that's so worth us talking, you know what I mean.

[15:41]

THERAPIST: Well yeah, I was; seems like it is. It's pretty significant.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But yeah, now also aware of it, but at the same time you just mentioned a moment ago like is this worth...am I just rambling or am I just talking on.

CLIENT: When I was talking about it with Laney on Tuesday, what I found myself thinking, because I sort of sat at home and thought about this by myself for a long time, then I started talking about it to Laney. So obviously things sound different when you say it, you know. But I was thinking about our conversation on Monday and I just sort of suspected that while I think I had an instance where I was really justified in being mad at my dad, I suspected that even though that's the case, that there was probably some other anger that was sort of opportunistically using that sort of whole to run out, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Some other anger, huh?

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know.

[17:18]

I called him this morning and I told him, you know, I was just like dad I need...I don't have any money for rent, you know. I didn't bring in as money from you as I thought I was going to and now I don't have enough money. I need to get money from you. And I felt confident saying that to him. But a lot of the kind of grand scenarios and fantasies that I had in my head of me being able to get a lot more angry at him than I did didn't really come in to play.

Like I said, I don't know. Like I felt justified like this week, you know what I mean? I felt, I didn't feel selfish about being mad at my dad. And that was always the outcome of me, on the one end being like yeah, you know, my dad is detestable in so many ways, but all I had access to were all of these examples of him being an incredible father, you know what I mean? Helping me when I got in trouble at school and not moving away, not bringing my mom to court, not doing well with my friend's dads, you know what I mean. Me feeling selfish was the only thing that ever came from those two polls. I didn't feel that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it almost sounds like you felt something different.

CLIENT: Completely different. Completely new.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I almost wanted to call my mom and like share it with her and bond over it. You know.

THERAPIST: Like you can relate as somebody also.

CLIENT: I wanted to tell her about it. I wanted her to be like yeah, I know what that's like. And me being, yeah, I know what dad's like.

THERAPIST: Yeah, because you guys don't do that.

CLIENT: Huh uh.

THERAPIST: Okay yeah, that would make sense. Because it's not experiences that happen in a "me' kind of way until this.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Whatever that feeling is that like remember I told you like when my mom tries to talk to me about it, I'll just stop. Whenever she'll try to talk to me about the divorce or something, I'll just make it stop.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you mentioned that, yes.

[20:30]

CLIENT: I'll just tell my mom stop if I have to. Like I'll walk out of the room. Whatever comes over me and like makes me feel like it is not okay at all to go there; just completely as a disadvantage or something. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, what a contrast between that and the thought I had of calling my mom to talk about it. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know, what do you think about that?

THERAPIST: No, I think it's very very important. I think it's deeply important to you. It's an important...you know, it just makes...one way I was thinking about it is you know, it's adding to the...it's like adding your own I kind of put it in this way, I guess but, it's adding to your own kind of, your own authorship of your relationship with your dad; like another facet to add to the relationship between you and your dad that you're kind of writing more. From your perspectives, you know, not that it wasn't before, but it just has a different kind of quality. It's like another; it's a real different lense to be looking at the relationship with you and your father through.

[22:19]

CLIENT: Yeah, authorship is a good way to put it. I'm actually able to put some like, the next space between like him and I are sitting down looking at each other. Sometimes I feel like all I can do is listen. You know what I mean. Even when he says things that I just know are absurd.

THERAPIST: Interesting.

CLIENT: But something like this, I felt like I could actually speak back to him and not just know you're wrong, but not, to the same extent, to just not literally be able to speak or something, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, not empowering your voice.

CLIENT: Very empowering. You know part of it, during the week, it became really clear to me that I just needed to have a conversation with my dad and I needed to tell him that he needs to give me some money. Maybe there may have been a miscommunication or something. He very well may have had other things on his mind, you know, but I found myself like not wanting to call him and have a go. I called him this morning and he was like oh, you do? Okay. And he immediately; I mean he didn't sort it out...we weren't able to sort it out this morning. We're going to have to talk tonight, but he left it as like okay, yeah, let me try to figure this out. I almost didn't want that. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, what were you kind of wanting?

[24:27]

CLIENT: I wanted him to just royally fuck me over.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: I wanted that so...you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I wanted to have that. You know. I wanted to, yeah, I don't know. Something that I felt like I got, but realizing that he was at fault there. It was weak in the way out of sort of pruned down or something when...I wanted him to...like I wanted him to say no and then have Laney and I get evicted or something. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: So then I could never talk to him ever again. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

THERAPIST: Well you know, go with that. I mean...the thing would be that it would have kind of really blown up or something.

CLIENT: It would have gone controversially, uncontroversially hurt me in a way that no one could deny, you know what I mean.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah. I got it.

CLIENT: In a way that I could stand on our roof top and scream it out.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in some ways it would mean then that the position that you're seeing him or the ones that you've seen him through, the kind of story to tell really holds. It doesn't get dissipated by him saying, oh, it's a mistake or an oversight or something like that. You clearly feel kind of entitled to what you're feeling.

CLIENT: Yeah.

[26:22]

THERAPIST: If you were evicted, if you got thrown out then you know, that I can really point to...that really did happen to me. It's incontrovertible evidence.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Can't deny that one.

CLIENT: Yeah, there's nothing cool about that.

THERAPIST: There's nothing cool about that.

CLIENT: You know what I mean. It's just some dirty as that stuff, you know. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, right.

CLIENT: And that felt odd to me. I noticed that. I noticed that I wanted that and it seemed interesting. I wanted my dad to do something, you know, that would hurt; that would be hurtful. Something stripped of the casual language and of the hugs, you know what I mean.

THERAPIST: The clear.

CLIENT: Yeah, none of that manipulative sort of smoothing over of things. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Huh uh. Yep. Something you can really point to or sink your teeth in.

CLIENT: Yeah. Now what does that suggest? When I look at it, it just seems to me like what someone does who is like angry at a person and knows they're angry at a person but doesn't have a first sort of step to take in talking about it or feeling confident talking about it. Like I felt so excited, I felt so confident as to why I could be mad at him, you know. I felt like I had like a [inaudible 28:37] or something, you know. I felt like all this stuff, all this energy, this coiled up energy was starting to take the opportunity to get behind it and you know, latch on to it or something. I got so angry about it. It was just evident to me at the time that I was, that there was more than just this month like, the events of this month that I'm fine with it. You know. It seemed very instructive in that sense because it was very evident to me that it just felt great for me to be able to talk to Laney about something that he did to me, and it really pissed me off. And it made sense to me and it made sense to her.

[29:42]

THERAPIST: And she could witness it. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know. I feel really odd just with how...this is all I've been thinking about since Tuesday. I haven't thought of anything else. It kept me up.

THERAPIST: Hmm, kind of in an excited kind of...?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely excited.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds like a kind of discovery. Really interesting. Important discovery.

CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like you're underwhelmed by this.

THERAPIST: That's interesting. Yeah, why?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know if it's your body language or something. I don't know why. Maybe I'm scared that you're going to be. So I feel like you are or something. I don't know.

THERAPIST: That I'm feeling underwhelmed by it. Yeah.

CLIENT: You're partially just like...because I imagined, I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: No, no. Go ahead.

CLIENT: Laney found it underwhelming when I talked to her. I told her this and I was all excited and I was jumping out of my pants like and she was like yeah, I kind of thought this last week, but just didn't say anything. Like yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, what does it mean to you that it feels that I'm reacting in an underwhelmed kind of way? Because you know, I think even just to say, I think what it seems to me like one aspect of what you're picking up on is that I don't think that I'm matching the excitement that you feel about it. What are you feeling?

[32:30]

CLIENT: The only thing I can think of to like draw a parallel would be like when I was in a class and I would be writing a paper for her and I thought had something really exciting; thought I had something remember when I actually talked to you about that?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And she would have those responses that were just they weren't good, they weren't bad; they were just like...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I thought it was just so much worse than even if she hated it and scribbled red pen all over it. I don't know. It's not like I think you're doing that. Like I can feel similar like; just feeling.

THERAPIST: No right. No, I can totally see you feeling that though. Yeah, no, I think I know what you're talking about. Yeah, that it doesn't; my response does not match the kind of...really all this meant to you. I think that's...I'm not sure what to make of that. I think there's something about that; it's important. And as you say, it's like resonate with like a...but as you notice that in me, where do you go with it? Where do you go with it? You know like what does it mean to you that I'm not?

[34:25]

CLIENT: It makes me scared that I'm wrong.

THERAPIST: Oh. That you're wrong about this.

CLIENT: Yeah, that I...it was exciting because it just seemed to make so much sense, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I guess I worry maybe it doesn't; maybe I actually shouldn't really be mad with dad.

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: As mad. Maybe there are a million things that I could have done to avoid this or something.

THERAPIST: That's not at all what I'm thinking. That's not at all, yeah. No, no, no. I totally; you know, I had a similar kind of thought as maybe Laney did as you started to say; as you started to talk about not getting paid, I'm like, oh has your dad paid you? I was thinking that. And then I thought to myself, I wonder if he's in some sort of financial bind and won't tell you. That's what kind of came to mind. And he's not.

CLIENT: He's buying a new car. He's getting a new car.

THERAPIST: My mind went to what is going on with him and you, and then obviously I was very very struck by exactly what you were talking about, about you...the really important kind of almost, as I try to put it in that language, a repression of the kind of the fact of your dad is the one isn't paying you this money. And in the function of that repression and how it kind of is like, so you're not aware of your anger towards your father and that it's affecting you; that it's not just anger towards your father but that you're the recipient of something bad again.

CLIENT: Exactly.

[36:46]

THERAPIST: And that you've never really experienced that before. You've never really had it authored by you in that way. I've been done wrong by my dad and I see it right in front of me. Except maybe the whole thing with him coming over and coming over and you just can't show up when you want. It was in a car; is that when it happened?

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: That I see all that. But I do know what you're talking about with my response to it. It wasn't because I wasn't aware of all that, all those lows. I'm sure it's a good observation. I'll have to think about it because it does have that resonance with...

CLIENT: That's exactly what it felt like. I was trying to think of words for it all I could think of was that.

THERAPIST: And then it kind of undermines the whole authorship that you've been doing in some way.

CLIENT: Authorship, yeah.

THERAPIST: Authorship. Yeah. Right, writing in your own voice.

CLIENT: My interpretation of text or the thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's very important. That's an important element of all this. And it's funny; as I started to talk, I started to notice more of an animation in me about what you had; what had gone on for you. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What was it like to for me to say all that though? I mean what...?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know. I mean the whole thing was like on Tuesday I thought I had like the key, some room I was trying to get out of. I thought I had my golden ticket. I thought; I don't know. I didn't think that, but that was like; that was like the way I reacted to it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It was important to me only because I witnessed myself react to it that way. I probably couldn't articulate it in a way that I think captures it as well as just my sheer sort of feeling and how different that felt. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: The delight. Yeah. It sounds like a delight. Maybe that's wrong.

CLIENT: It was a delight, yeah. It was a delight. I smiled; I was smiling as I realized that, you know what I mean.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[40:03]

CLIENT: And I just started imagining like all these other things that...I just imagine myself able and capable to articulate like a number of other things in a more...I think in a way that matches my more general feelings about my dad. In a way that seems consistent and not inconsistent with other tests of how I feel he is. Like that's the main contradiction. You know why act towards him like he is not as that what he think he is. I felt like able to do things that were congruent with that.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: You know. It felt good. I mean a whole number of things, you know. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and then my reaction kind of undermines it though, right. Well, did it make you kind of go like, am I on the wrong track here? That I might sense that you're on the wrong track or something like that; that what you were experiencing was kind of misguided or something?

CLIENT: I don't really know how to...the only thing I can think of is another example of like a...it captures the feeling really well. I could write a paper or I can write something, anything that I really really like and that I think is good and meaningful and I enjoyed writing it and loved it. I can give it to [inaudible 41:56] and she cannot like it, and not be enthused about it as I am. And even though I know that I can still like it, it loses all of its; it becomes something that I hate and I don't want to even read those papers anymore. You know what I mean. It's not that I'm wrong. It's not that it's something less...

THERAPIST: Yes. It's something about the lack of enthusiasm that it alters it or something for it.

CLIENT: And it makes me not want to have anything to do with it. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[42:48]

CLIENT: I don't know. That's more to do with it; that's speaking more about the paper, but yeah, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, but I can tell you're sort of saying too that when you notice my kind of reaction you didn't kind of...it started to kind of undermine something... I mean not that you were right; it sounds like it didn't undermine your sense of like I was right to feel angry then, but some way like the telling of it to me and my reaction made you feel like, that it was doing something to the experience; it was making you reflect differently on the experience in some way. Is that right to say? I realize I'm getting kind of wordy here.

CLIENT: It's funny. That's what I say through the entire time I'm here. I don't know. It's just a little deflating.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess I kind of feel compelled to say I'm sorry because I do note how I really do know how important that is to you. I mean it is important. It is very significant given everything we've been talking about. The fact that I think one of the things that I was just thinking of while you were talking about it in my head was boy what a compelling example of how this process can be helpful and useful.

CLIENT: This class, therapy?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

[44:45]

CLIENT: That's how I felt like this week. I felt like I really tangibly saw like a hole that we opened up here in discussion like actually be really impactful. And like what goes on outside, in a way that I can draw these lines that were just like so evident. You know what I mean? I guess that's why I decided to talk to you about it. But...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I felt like when I left here last time I was like, there were two tracks I could get like really mad at my dad about some things; I can't get mad at my dad about some other things. And on Tuesday, I felt like I did.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I felt accomplished.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don't know, I mean, I think something important is happening in that regard. I guess it's one thing I'm thinking about is that as I was thinking about just in some way my sense of you and your father...your father having a hard time the way that I understand it and hear it is your father almost having a hard time or you never really feeling from your father a sense of that the whole thing that you were describing about how he did it one way and you could never really do it the way he did it. The challenges that he faced in life, you never will have that kind of thing. And so you're doing all these great things, yeah, yeah, yeah, great, but there's not an enthusiasm or something about it and not a way of really really sharing in it. And I was thinking about the connection between that and the class. You know, like in some way there's this kind of well that's great for Geoffrey, but...and then it somehow and in some way doesn't feel that way at all here, you know. In some ways it...that's what came to mind and I think it's a very important thing. The weird thing just to throw in there is that...and I think you noticing on my enthusiasm, I found myself feeling more...and I'll have to think about this more this in no way goes against how important that discovery is for you and how actually, how strange it is for me to be saying this, but I found myself more reacting to you telling me about something very personal about you and Laney. I hadn't heard you talk about you and Laney in quite such a personal way. Like Laney and I had this conversation...I felt very drawn in to it. And yet clearly this is much more a substantial discovery that you're talking about with you and your dad.

[47:53]

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: I just thought I'd share that with you because there's something...

CLIENT: I'm happy you did.

THERAPIST: But even though it's clear to me as I look at it, the whole thing with you and your father is obviously much more critical and deep and I don't want to discount what importance that held for me either about you telling me it's not necessarily you and Laney. That's very personal and intimate in some way. I don't know. Just in a way that you hadn't talked.

CLIENT: That's what struck you as personal.

THERAPIST: That's what hit me emotionally more. I don't know why.

CLIENT: Like you interpreting it as a more intimate disclosure on my part towards you or I was opening up more to you or it emotionally resonated with you?

[48:50]

THERAPIST: I felt drawn...I felt very brought in to something that's very personal to you.

CLIENT: Huh.

THERAPIST: And not that you even did it intentionally. Like it just was like you were telling me this is what happened.

CLIENT: I'm not saying this is...but yeah.

THERAPIST: Or in the grand scheme of things and what we've been talking about, the way you talk about your history and everything, of course, the thing with your father is huge. But I don't know; it is what it is. And I thought you're picking up on something, I need to tell you what the response was. I don't know what to make of it. I'll need to think about it. But I also think that there's something there in terms of I'm just connecting up with your father's some lack of enthusiasm you sense with your father with certain things.

CLIENT: Uh huh. It's a really interesting parallel between, yeah, kind of his experience and mine; that's a really...yeah you figure out, yeah. I know we're going...

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's a tough spot to end here because there's a lot more to talk about, but yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, thank you.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I was looking forward to this.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. Just to say, that is pretty damn important.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And maybe that's an understatement.

CLIENT: Yeah who knows. Leave this here or put it in the sink for you?

THERAPIST: Yeah, if you can put it in the sink that would be great. Thanks.

CLIENT: No problem. Alright. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Yeah, a lot there.

CLIENT: Alright, I'll see you Monday.

THERAPIST: Okay, I'll see you Monday. Yeah.

END TRANSCRIPT