TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So nothing next week.

THERAPIST: Nothing next week, that's right, yeah.

CLIENT: I know it's following Spring Break, for UMass at least. Is it a vacation or…?

THERAPIST: Yeah it's a vacation actually.

CLIENT: It is?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Cool, have fun.

THERAPIST: Going down south.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: It's some warm weather.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: What's there? So there's warm weather…

THERAPIST: No just…it's totally staying in hotels, stuff like that. (over talking) I'm not visiting people or anything.

CLIENT: A real vacation.

THERAPIST: A real vacation, that's right (laughs).

CLIENT: Yeah that's cool. Are you going by yourself?

THERAPIST: Going with a friend actually lives down there and yeah there's another one that might be…we'll see what happens.

CLIENT: Cool. Have a blast.

THERAPIST: Thanks.

CLIENT: Wear sunscreen.

THERAPIST: I will that.

CLIENT: So with respect to the bill. The big deductible, I really just didn't even have much time to think much about it this week. [00:01:31] Except to that say that I did file my taxes last week and I won't be getting $1500 back, I will be getting a check for a couple hundred dollars so there will be something to start working with but I'll have to kind of reassess to figure out the rest of it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So hopefully that, not to just push it off but I think a little more substantive discussion about it, what that might look like when you get back, if that's okay?

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, totally. I didn't want to drop on you something like that, not something that is easy to figure out.

CLIENT: Yeah. I was thinking about it and I guess I should say I thought a bit about the topic of that bill, not so much how I'm going to pay for it but I was thinking about like when you gave it to me. I just thought that your mannerisms and the way that you did it seemed really interesting to me.

THERAPIST: What did you notice?

CLIENT: I found myself wanting to ask you something that you would typically ask me in a lot of these situations. I found myself wanting to say to you, almost even at the moment but it was over time but what that felt like for you, to give that to me? [00:03:13] Yeah you seemed…there were a couple things I thought were interesting about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah tell me.

CLIENT: (pause) Well I would be interested in hearing the answer to that question but (pause) I thought it was interesting that when I asked you…I was completely under the impression that that was not a one-time annual deductible but just a one-time deductible with the insurance. My understanding was that that was over with and I didn't even cross my mind for a second that that would have been a yearly thing and I think that's probably pretty evident to you too, that that was my understanding. If you had to guess maybe it would be a concern but…

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. No I thought…

CLIENT: You know? But in thinking about it I suspect that it was something you probably were…you deal with this stuff a lot, even when I kind of asked you I said "Did you know this was a one-time thing or…?"

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: I don't remember what you said but it was sort of like a non-answer. You did what I do, I kind of saw it in your answer, sort of like a set of mannerisms that I do sometimes when I am feeling kind of nervous or something.

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: And (pause) [00:04:55] I just remember (over talking) I was like "Did you know this was a one-time thing?" and you said "You know, I thought I did, kind of thought you might have known about it. I'm not really sure."

THERAPIST: Oh okay.

CLIENT: Which I thought was interesting.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: And I have to assume that on some level, somewhere in your mind you probably have dealt with these sort of insurance processes enough times to have not been completely surprised by it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, no, no, right.

CLIENT: How much money is the discussion that we have. It just seems interesting that it never would have come up, you know what I mean? Given that when the insurance company initially said "We're going to stop covering." Too many appointments…I was like "Alright lets figure something out, we'll figure something out and I was very clear to you this is down to the dollar," you know what I mean? Knowing that it was coming, the $1500 deductible it doesn't seem completely random or hard to think about that like coming up but it didn't.

THERAPIST: Right, right. You mean to myself like that it was coming up, that it didn't occur to me?

CLIENT: Yeah I mean I think I asked the question and you were like "Why would I even have brought that up then?" In January, the one year mark, when we have to totally like reconfigure this and I had to say "Okay we can do this thing with the research thing and that would get me like right to the dollar and I could keep doing it." [00:06:42] I don't think it's hard to understand why that would have been something to bring up then too. This isn't me being upset about it because what's interesting is that you didn't bring it up and quite frankly I probably wouldn't have wanted you to bring it up then. (pause) I guess basically, I felt like I saw for a moment like something I would do when there's something that I don't want to do but I'm going to have to do. You were going to have to give me that, you were going to have to break it to me at some point that I had to come up with the $1500.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: You knew that, on some level.

THERAPIST: Yeah I see what you're saying. Right.

CLIENT: Until you had to hand it to me kind of found a way not to come up.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That's what I do, a lot.

THERAPIST: And you kind of sort of see that in yourself and have to go "I know I do this thing?"

CLIENT: And that's why I thought it was funny when I asked you did you know. Because you even kind of looked away and you were kind of almost as if for a moment you were like "I think I knew," but "I don't know to tell you." You technically looked a little confused almost.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. Like as if in a way you can identify sort of sensing "Hey when I'm in that state I get confused or I feel that it's hard to kind of be in complete awareness of exactly what I'm doing or what I'm feeling."

CLIENT: Mm hm. [00:08:33] It…we spoke about how I'm interested sometimes in humanizing you and like understanding who you are more and that was like a very…

THERAPIST: It was a tell huh?

CLIENT: A very humanizing moment I feel like, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah what did it mean to you?

CLIENT: I don't know. You're not anxious to me, you're not scared, you're not unhappy, you're the calm, cool, collected psychoanalyst dude who knows the answers and probably knows the answers to questions that I have and don't even know that I have yet. That's you, very idealized in a way. And it was just kind of interesting to…

THERAPIST: It harpoons back to the discussion we were having about your dad and the money. Your sort of not even ever imagining him not being able to come up with the money but not being clear or straight forward about it, which wouldn't have even occurred to you until you found yourself thinking "Wait a second, he wasn't being straight forward about this. How long was this in his mind…?"

CLIENT: Yeah I mean, I don't know. [00:10:04] I'm surprised that I didn't preface my comments about this with something like I'm not…I don't feel like I have to say this but I will just to try to make some space between like a (inaudible) that you knew my dad, like I was not upset about it, I didn't bring these things up so that I could say that I'm mad at you for not mentioning it before. I didn't speculate as to whether or not you might have known this before just so that I could get angry that you didn't say it, that's not really what I'm interested in doing because I'm very serious. Even if you did, I probably wouldn't have wanted you to tell me because if you did tell me in January when we were trying to figure this other money stuff out I probably would've stopped coming as much.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, it was a stretch holding on to the status quo right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If you said "Oh well maybe we can do this thing and we can blah blah blah, and there's also this $1500 thing you have to handle," I would have just been like "Forget it, this is too much." I speculated that at some point this week that it might have been sort of sympathetic of you not to bring it up then. [00:11:32] If on some level you were expecting that bill to come.

THERAPIST: Right and knowing that, having the sense that I might have known that you didn't know about it?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah and you didn't know about the deductible…right. No its true yeah.

CLIENT: I don't have any, I'm not trying to...

THERAPIST: Well…

CLIENT: Like (inaudible) stayed in here I just thought it was…

THERAPIST: I think in a way its…not to say that your lumping me in with your dad or we're the same guy or something and it's all the same or its equivalent, I guess more I'm struck by you sort of going "Alright this doesn't seem to be," in some way you feel like it's less, your less (pause) feeling that…more open to a certain kind of wondering who I am beyond the ideal, never has any hang-ups or never has any kind of anxiety and all that stuff. I guess that being the parallel with your dad in the sense of like, what I sense in both in situations is a sort of feeling like "Wait maybe it's not just me (laughs), it's an interactive kind of thing, it's a two way, two people involved, not just me," that's just in this case. You feel like (pause) that you did something wrong or whatever but some way your kind of wondering about the whole, the element of both of us being involved in this. [00:13:43] Like your father having some role in what happened between the two of you and me having some role in what happened between you and me. Does that make sense?

CLIENT: Yeah I'm very aware that I might worry in different ways about doing something hurtful to you whether it's not wanting to go over time or me getting nervous when I have to tell you I can't come to an appointment cause I'm not here to take it, that makes sense to me that I would do that. It was odd for a moment to see, cause I felt like you thought that that bill was going to hurt me. I felt like that was why, I don't know, I speculated that that might have been something to do with why…seemed to just pop out of nowhere like it was being kind of held back or something.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: So it was interesting to see…I don't think of you, I'm the one that kind of does that stuff.

THERAPIST: Yeah, right.

CLIENT: So in a way what I see similar between those two things, which I hadn't even considered before with your family, between that experience and my dad is the way that…that little experience right there the other week left me thinking like "Wow I have a very idealized of you," that surprised me so much. [00:15:25] So obviously I would need those, you know what I mean? It sort of just put a little space between what is like obviously true which is that you are a person and this sort of idealized image that I have of you and I think that's similar with my dad.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Which we spoke about a lot.

THERAPIST: Yeah I think you put it better than I would have tried to put it (laughs).

CLIENT: That was the big thing with my dad was like my shock and amazement when I sort of reflected on what seems so obvious to other people but so unable to fit in with the image that I had.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I liked it when it happened between us and I guess I sort of liked it in a way when it happened between my dad and I but I felt like it was sort of revealing something good in you.

THERAPIST: Oh, how do you mean that…yeah. What was the good part of it? [00:16:49]

CLIENT: (pause) You did the thing that I associate with virtue. You were worried about the way that I speculated you were worried about hurting me, I thought. That's what I do. That's what I worry about. With everything I do. So I sort of identified with what I thought maybe you were thinking.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I liked it because I would have done the same thing I feel like. That's not the case with my dad. I don't know what that's going for us but…I feel some desire to not…to create some space between (inaudible), I don't know, to lump you in a category with my dad I guess. I suppose because that would obviously not be good because you know how I feel about my dad. [00:18:14]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I certainly wouldn't want to say you remind me of my dad.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I don't like my dad.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: That's a special category.

THERAPIST: You don't want any cross-contamination?

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: is that how you feel?

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) And it's so similar to what I'm doing right now. I'm doing almost exactly what I suspect you did. I have a bomb to drop.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah. That's very…

CLIENT: And I don't want to do it.

THERAPIST: Right, right.

CLIENT: And I think I'm holding off for noble reasons, you know? I think maybe what I'm doing not telling them yet isn't good but I feel like the things that are animating my concern with doing so are noble concerns. I just don't want to hurt anyone what's wrong with that like…I don't want to make people mad. Maybe it's that I will have like a bad consequence but it's not my intention. (pause) Which I feel is definitely what I'm doing right now. [00:19:52]

THERAPIST: Yeah and you saw that kind of like in me, a similar reaction to something?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: A similar reaction in a similar situation.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: It was funny because I was talking with Laney about it and I told her I was like "Yeah I got this bill, $1500," she was like "Really?" and I was like "Yeah…" She's like "Did you know that?" and I was like "No," she didn't even ask but I kind of said "I don't …I think the doc (ph?) either knew it or probably…" Yeah probably you knew it or at least you know how insurance companies operate enough that it could've come up, you know? And Laney sort of…she was like "Oh wow! That's too bad."

THERAPIST: (laughs) Really? That's too bad?

CLIENT: Yeah and I felt like she was sort of like "Wow, why wouldn't…" I think I presented it to her in a way that was almost like saying this is something that like you could get mad about but…just to I could say to her like "I'm not mad about it." [00:21:36]

THERAPIST: Uh huh, yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: I don't know why that…I don't know why it would have been something that was on my mind so much but…I thought about it a bit.

THERAPIST: Yeah was there…you sort of said like does it seem kind of…does it feel kind of evident to you that you were making it such so that you wouldn't get mad, like it was presented so you wouldn't be, there wouldn't be a mad quality to it? Your feelings as far as being mad? (pause)

CLIENT: I guess the significance of it I suppose would have been that I felt that you did something similar to me. I speculate that maybe you did something like I did. I feel like I do these things, we can draw a parallel to what I'm doing at my job, not telling them. I feel like I'm not telling them yet because I genuinely care about them. [00:23:17]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: If I didn't care about them, I don't know, I feel like it wouldn't be as hard. So I guess when I said you do it I…from my own way of thinking it seemed to suggest like "Wow, seems like you care about me in the same way," or something.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: That's what I think I took away from it and why maybe it kind of stuck out, I suppose.

THERAPIST: Yeah, uh huh. Well I guess I'm also thinking about the other side of it which is that your sort of feeling that…I mean one other way that you view yourself though in this situation with your current job is that there's a way that you kind of wonder or question about is it right, what you're doing, is it right what you're doing, to be dropping this bomb and be moving on somewhat and I was thinking in some way…there's that element that one could look at me dropping the bomb on you and that… I think it's fair to say it's kind of difficult to be aware of potential feeling of feeling mad or unfairly treated by me. [00:25:01] That's the bottom line (inaudible, noise).

CLIENT: No, no, no.

THERAPIST: Not trying to force the issue, I'm just thinking that's what comes to mind.

CLIENT: What that maybe in so far I see the parallel between the two? If I get mad at you then you'd get mad at me? Is that what your…

THERAPIST: Well that there's a way that would go to say your kind of like working through…your trying to determine "Is this right or wrong?" with what you're doing in this situation with your job and what I did to you, sometimes it feels like "Of course, it makes sense," there's caring and thoughtfulness about it and anxiety and there's also that level of is it right or wrong in some way.

CLIENT: That's the thing, that's why…because I genuinely, your always limited in your ability to make these interpretations of yourself, I don't feel mad like in a way, I even thought about this this week (pause) I wanted you to do it for the reasons you did, I wasn't mad in a way. [00:26:29] I wouldn't have wanted that to be…I wanted to talk about that like this thing with Laney, if I'm to run with the analogy that maybe somehow I figured out a little conversation I found something that I could try to play out in my head, this thing with my work and if I was assuming the role of the person who's getting bomb dropped I wanted to be like "It's okay, yeah it's cool."

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Like who cares you're not…

THERAPIST: I gotcha.

CLIENT: Like is if I was almost vindicating myself or something. Like that analogy.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Like proving to myself…that, you know what I mean? I thought about it a little bit and some terms on (inaudible) which is why I almost wanted to present it to Laney in a way that maybe she would have been like "Oh are you mad about that?" just so I could be like "No." I don't know.

THERAPIST: She would have acted, when she asked and you sort of said something did she end up asking in a way that you might be mad about it?

CLIENT: She seemed to…she did but because I didn't, I really literally presented it to her in a way that almost tried to set that up.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:28:12]

CLIENT: Almost just so I could then kind of come back and say like…because if I just went to Laney and said "My insurance company is make me pay another $1500 but I'm not mad about it," she'd be like, literally "Ok, why would you be?" I feel like that was the way that I presented it to her, so that made more sense. It made more sense why I thought it was significant that I wasn't mad about it where I could even say it. (pause) I'll tell you man I was at work for three days because last Thursday I wasn't feeling well, I didn't go in on Friday so I've been there a lot this week, the last few days I've spent all my time there and I sit in this room as close to you with my employer or my supervisor, really nice guy and it's almost like tell-tell heart, like the guy's in the room and like his guilt is like all he can hear is the beating, you know what I mean? I almost feel like that when I'm sitting in that room quietly working, like this heavy sense of guilt. I don't know.

THERAPIST: For the bomb to drop?

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:29:58] In the same way it's like suffocating me…I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah that in a way too that you're going to be dropping something kind of…the bomb isn't just the news it's this kind of…I was thinking the bomb is also like this side of like self-interest, you feel really, really deeply ambivalent about at times and that you'd be showing them that too. Showing some side of yourself, some self-interested side of yourself, that's kind of the bomb. Does that make sense?

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: It's like it's kind of constructed along those lines.

CLIENT: So that would part with the idealizing it in myself to them or something?

THERAPIST: Yeah, idealizing (over talking)…

CLIENT: Or whatever. But like in the same way that would…

THERAPIST: A definition.

CLIENT: A view that your mad or something…

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) [00:31:12]

CLIENT: Yeah it's definitely just more…more than just going to law school. It's all the stuff that follows, the self-interest, the (pause) selfishness, I don't know which is I suppose is a different way of saying (inaudible). You know, revealing it from the self or something. This flip side becomes real.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's a thing I have to face then, it's real yeah. (pause) Seems like a valid thing to be concerned about. I try to work around it, I try to tell myself why I shouldn't be worried about it. I try to do what people tell me when I talk to Laney, like "Yeah you have the right to…" she always puts it "No one would ever have a right to be mad at you for leaving a 20 hour a week job to go to law school with this scholarship. No one would genuinely be able to think poorly of you for making that decision." [00:33:04] I try to follow that through in my head, like really how it makes sense, I can barely do it because it seems to me like a very respectable concern, like not wanting to do something that would (pause) hurt or inconvenience... Yeah it seems like a very noble thing to do. I have a hard time getting around that. I have a hard time sort of finding the irrationality in that, it seems very rational to me. Finding the (inaudible), you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) I think…what I was thinking it kind of leads back to that question of…in part it's about them and how they would respond but it's also how do you feel about it? Some framework inside of yourself, I don't know if there's room for that kind of element inside of…that kind of self-interest. [00:34:46]

CLIENT: And I don't want you to play that fantasy out with them getting really, really mad about it. (pause) This seems like an impossible thing to get around without someone getting hurt. It just seems like which way do you want to go, so who ends up getting hurt. It doesn't seem like there's a "everybody wins" thing here. Like why don't I just play it out in my head when I'm thinking about it during the day?

THERAPIST: That's right, yeah.

CLIENT: But when I do that I never can…I suspect maybe there's a possibility that maybe I could tell them and they might definitely "Oh wow that's great! You should definitely take that opportunity. We'll find someone else and make it work." I suppose they could say that. In all honestly I think if they did I think I would be really happy but like the place I brought myself into thinking about it…like right there that's the most I've ever actually thought about that possibility. That's the most literal sort of imagining it going that way. It just seems like the fork in the road and a big detour, there's no point in actually thinking about that as you imagine and on the situation. [00:36:35]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: There's no percentage wise possibility that would happen to rely on or something, you know? (pause) I genuinely cant, like I know I'm an anxious person, I know I am and I know it leads me to deal with certain situations to varying degrees, in different ways than other people do. I know that I probably have a much harder time leaving paparazzi's and I think at least most of the people I'm close with would, I recognize that in myself. (pause) But I can't, again in an instance like this I can't apply that principle and say "Yeah I'm a little bit…I have a tendency sometimes maybe to overblow things," but when I'm looking as a (inaudible) I can't say "That's what this is (inaudible due to noise) out here," you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well I think the anxiety, I mean yeah you can kind of depict yourself as that anxious person but the anxiety seems to be an outgrowth of the feelings that you have about doing this. About what it means for you identity wise, meaning wise, the anxiety comes from a concern that you showing them, telling them about this specific instance but who you are and what interests you have and how they diverge from what their needs are really puts you in the mouth of the lion so to speak, of your own questions about yourself and so "Is this a good part of me or not?" [00:38:46] "Is what I'm doing right or wrong? Am I…" (pause) It's almost like "Am I good or am I bad?" That's what I (inaudible due to noise)

CLIENT: Mm hm. (pause)

THERAPIST: And its deep, it's not some sort of throw away thing. It has a deep reverberation into who you see yourself, how do see yourself as a person. Very core level. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah in a sense, in a way. It's almost like, I have to almost modify that though.

THERAPIST: Yeah what do you…?

CLIENT: The question like "How do I feel about myself as a person?" If I felt good about myself as a person or bad about myself as a person I could…I feel like I'd almost be reacting to this differently like right now there's definitely a question of the goodness and badness of my person but that only exists on the other side of this. [00:40:31] It's like "Am I going to be good?" Seems like that thing that would take on all the good or badness in this…just something you can actually…

THERAPIST: It's going to be how people respond to it? Is that what you mean?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: By the other side of it?

CLIENT: Yeah it's not that I…

THERAPIST: How people react, yeah. Is that what you mean?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, just the way you put it "Am I a good person," like…I don't know. That doesn't fit or something.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I don't know, it's (pause), like that totally depends on how this plays out.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Like it's, I don't know, that's a consequence, it's not something I bring it to it almost.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Its (pause) that thing my math teacher said in high school, I never forgot, it's like the principle "Your only as good as your next test," or something. [00:41:54] It's a (inaudible) type thing.

THERAPIST: Okay, okay.

CLIENT: I did this, I was worried about some of the same things on a smaller scale, played out as good as possible, could not have gone better then it just stuck because I moved forward. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah (pause).

CLIENT: Does that make sense to you?

THERAPIST: Well yeah I think…are you saying it kind of gets defined less by how you internally feel about yourself in more how you truly feel about yourself ends up getting, is resolved in what the response is. Is that?..."

CLIENT: I guess the question is like when you put…it raises the question of "What kind of person am I?" That seems to suggest that I could almost think that through to figure out. But for some reason the way that I think about it, it seems like that's something that's going to be like bestowed upon me.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Not something I'm going to, not something I can like discover myself, like some hidden or repressed thought. That's something that's getting gave to me. I don't have…

THERAPIST: So often it is.

CLIENT: What do you mean? [00:43:24]

THERAPIST: Well I was thinking about that's how…I mean I was just thinking about you and your dad in some way the way you form your…anybody that's like growing up develops their sense of what's…if they're good or bad is from the outside, not from inside. (laughter) Morality of what you're doing, if it's right or wrong. Is that…?

CLIENT: Yeah, no, I mean that's what I want to get away from though. That's not…there is that idea and it's definitely the case, that's the way that I think I see myself acting a lot more but what about the person who has their notions of right and wrong and can assess something, can handle the ambiguity, can say "You know what, this is a difficult situation but this is what I feel and I know it's right." But that seems like a thing?

THERAPIST: No, I get it. Well yeah this situation evokes that sense of it comes from the outside not from the inside.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's…I don't know if that captures what you're getting at?

CLIENT: Yeah I'm not a good or a bad person right now. That's where this is going in a sense like do I have these self-interested, selfish things inside of me that are leading me towards possibly doing this thing as if then once I do it and people react to it then I will have figured out what's like in me right now. Like "Oh wow I am a bad person," or something. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Okay. [00:45:11]

CLIENT: Do you know what I mean? That is me, you know, that's…(pause). Yeah I don't know, that's just not…that seems like it would be a better way to think about it almost. That would seem more comforting demeanor.

THERAPIST: I'm trying to get at what the experience of it is, the raw experience of it is.

CLIENT: A good person who's confident could handle someone being mad at them. I don't know, I don't know if that makes any sense.

THERAPIST: Which part doesn't make sense?

CLIENT: (pause) I'll be a bad person if they get mad at me.

THERAPIST: And I'll be good…okay, if they're not?

CLIENT: Yeah. Nothing about me right now, almost.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: We need a revelation or something, the way that there was or something. I don't know.

THERAPIST: There will be what?

CLIENT: You know, a revelation of myself or something, that I'll know myself better or something. It's just going to move forward.

THERAPIST: It'll be the next one, it'll just be what happens the next time, happens the next time.

CLIENT: Does that make any sense? [00:46:52]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: I think so, it's almost like…stay dependent. In other words its dependent on that particular instance not something that's like inside of you on the day of the event.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's femoral, its…

THERAPIST: Yeah. Or that's just the nature of that particular brand of right or wrong, good or bad, its dependent upon how the people that perceive it look at it.

CLIENT: Yeah "Look at you." It's not something you are, it's the way your looked at. The way your perceived.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: I feel like that captures it somewhat.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: Its time. I know it is.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah.

CLIENT: I imagine on Tuesday I'm going to meet with or on Wednesday I meet with…and I think it will be very informative and it will give me a lot of calm…confidence and as someone who's part of the executive committee of the union, someone I'm close with, someone who knows this law school thing, is bringing me there. I don't know I just feel like it would help me start to gauge right and wrong in this situation.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:48:28] So she kind of is enthusiastic and knows what the applications are, it's a good sign…

CLIENT: Yeah she's on the executive committee. She's not my employer but…

THERAPIST: But she'll be an indicator?

CLIENT: Yeah, I'll be able to start getting kind of a pressure check or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I know what your sort of saying, it's a lot to live with in this place right now though.

CLIENT: Yeah it feels familiar. It is a lot to deal with, it is, it is but it's not unique. It just…by way of…Have a blast on your vacation.

THERAPIST: Thanks.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: I'll see you in a week and a half.

CLIENT: Yeah, thank you.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Thank you very much, so on Monday right?

THERAPIST: Monday the 25th.

CLIENT: Yeah, great, thank you. Have a blast.

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