TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: But the [inaudible 00:00:02] to actually stick a heat pack on my leg, which I did while you were out.

THERAPIST: Are you in a bunch of pain?

CLIENT: Mm-hm. (pause) Made a tactical error today, which was so I've been kind of failing to find an apartment, and that's partially because the rent that we want is under market and our apartment's under market, which we like [inaudible 00:00:48]. That's one of the reasons why we stayed, even before our landlord lost his mind. So I called the place, and he's like "I have two places that are close [inaudible 00:01:01] you want." Basically he's like, "Can you meet now?" I'm like "Okay."

[00:01:09]

I did the bus schedule, figured out they could got dressed, ran out the door, and kind of speed-walked to the bus stop, and it hurt. I was like, "Well, it's a little sore. It's not too bad." And then while he was showing me, I'm like "I fucked up." It's like exercising without stretching. And the cold, and every it was kind of like a series of bad decisions all at once. Part of the reason why [inaudible 00:01:52] I want to see it right now, right now, is this was one of the places was I kind of didn't want to spend $1700, max $1900. [inaudible 00:02:07] $2000. And this was $1800. I'm like "Fine, it's close."

[00:02:13]

And it met basically all the criteria, except there's not a dishwasher. Which sucks, but and it doesn't have a big guest room, but a lot of space, it has porches, it has all these things we wanted. They allow cats, which is perfect. And the kitchen is newly renovated, washer, dryer in-unit for free. Actually also really close to Ashby's Yoga class that she likes and it's a couple blocks away from where we used to live. Actually, the same street where some friends of mine used to live. So I'm kind of like, "Well..."

[00:03:00]

So I texted Ashby to see if she could arrange to look at it tonight, and I really hate making fast decisions. I really, really, really hate making fast financial decisions, Ashby makes less money than I do, etc. So I obviously really want her to see it. So about 15 minutes ago, I got out of the subway and she called, like "Do you want to take it?" And (pause) I said yes, and I'm still very flustered about it. Because I said yes at like 5:15. At the foot of the elevator, I'm like "I have to go right now, but..." (pause)

The question that I sort of have that couldn't really be answered in 10 minutes was how much out of her price range is it. And (pause) like I said, I am willing to pay extra. Like if it's really unaffordable for her, I'm willing to pay -

[00:04:22]

THERAPIST: A little more.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I'm still kind of like, "That's a lot of money." Also for whatever reason, I still haven't I'm not sure what it is with the short-term disability, there should be a difference in my pay is varying every pay period by several hundred dollars.

[00:05:00]

THERAPIST: That's weird.

CLIENT: Yes. And I called about it. Well, you know, basically they're like, "Well, that happens sometimes for reasons. It will get evened out in the end." I don't like that. (laughs) I had to make them cut me a check. Right before Christmas, they had given me a check that was less than half of what I normally get, and I was like "I can't pay the rent. Cut me a check immediately." And they did, and whatever, I paid the rent. But (pause) it was stressful, because I'm sick of budgeting. I think it's affordable for me. I think it's affordable for me if I pay $1100 and she pays $700. But I would feel better if I knew what my monthly paycheck was. Yeah. (laughs)

[00:06:03]

THERAPIST: Sure. On the other side of the [inaudible 00:06:07] equation [inaudible 00:06:09] what you're getting paid. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I still and I also I have not successfully gotten in touch with the insurance about how they're reimbursing me, and they called. [inaudible 00:06:26] didn't actually help. Because they were like, "Well, does your provider bill Blue Cross Blue Shield?" I'm like, "Yes." Then they said "call Blue Cross, not us."

THERAPIST: What was your question?

CLIENT: My question was could they tell me more of when I'm going to get a reimbursement check, and then how is that going to work.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah. The only thing I know about that is that they have started sending them out as of this week. I got notice in the mail yesterday indicating that they were starting to send checks out. The only reason they got [inaudible 00:07:11]. I'm not sure why; I submit everybody's stuff at the same time, and I do it every other week, essentially. But [inaudible 00:07:23].

[00:07:24]

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I suspected I could just sit down on hold with Blue Cross and ask them. So that's happening. Also got an e-mail so tomorrow, the various managers are meeting to discuss my return to work. And that's really very stressful for me right now. And then I got [inaudible 00:07:51] e-mail about how long my short-term disability benefits are currently proved for. One person said the 28th, the other person said the 20th. Which is not the same.

[00:08:03]

THERAPIST: Right. [inaudible 00:08:05] far away.

CLIENT: Yes. And I'm just super oh, and then I also decided, while this was all happening, I finally decided to start mentally panicking about packing. Because I've been actually very chill about it, which is weird for me, only today it's just kind of like -

THERAPIST: You're really freaking out.

CLIENT: Yes. And I can't just go home and lay down on the sofa and sort of collapse. I'm meeting a friend for dinner right after this. (laughs) Yes. I just I don't know, I feel like I just made a bunch of mistakes. I don't know.

[00:09:00]

But a part of me is like, I have made some mistakes in planning this day. Mostly just the running out the door was a stupid idea. And I was actually not running; I was walking quickly. I didn't think it would hurt as much. [inaudible 00:09:15] I think that it's really important to have friends drive me to work, because wow, that sucks. But yeah, I feel like I just (pause) I don't know. I feel like everything's out of my control. (pause)

And (pause) I this also there's a disability coordinator, a staff coordinator at Cambridge, someone named Esther. She's the person I talked to that then coordinates everyone else, sort of. Or tells me who to talk to.

[00:10:05]

(pause) So I started feeling anxious yesterday, and I was like, maybe I'll just call her tomorrow and say I feel anxious about this. I'm worried that they'll reject back to work thing, or they're going to reject that they're not going to agree to the modifications I requested, and I'm actually scared about that. But I don't know if it's appropriate to just call her and be like, "I'm really freaked out, hey." (pause)

[00:11:00]

I guess [inaudible 00:11:04] I had not had been doing that with HR in general, and I'm just also, she can't really it's not something she can really answer.

THERAPIST: Right. (pause) Right. (pause) There's not really much that anybody can really answer.

CLIENT: Yeah, it really...

THERAPIST: It would be disconcerting, I think.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I mean, the other thing is that talking to realtors about apartments has been kind of like it sucks for everyone. It always sucks. But the realtors have been like they've all been like, "We just don't have a lot available," as opposed to being like, "Oh, we told you stuff," [inaudible 00:12:17], they're just like, "Mm."

[00:12:19]

THERAPIST: They got nothing, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, he had [inaudible 00:12:22] different rates to show me.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And one of them was way too just too far out and small and crappy. But (pause) that's part of why I said I feel like I want to just take this place, because I'm just kind of like, could we find anything better? I don't even know. (pause) Usually with hunting for apartments, I feel like they have the June 1st, September 1st move ins and move outs, I feel like (pause) part of the problem is there's so many apartments to sift through. So in a certain way, they have to be cat-friendly at least narrowed it down. But this is kind of like, there's nothing available.

[00:13:25]

THERAPIST: Right, often the constraints even in a regular time, the constraints are helpful in narrowing down all the stuff out there.

CLIENT: Yeah. And the other thing is that, just money-wise, if we want to stay within walking distance of the red line and we're like, you know, [inaudible 00:13:50], whatever. We just have it's just going to be $1800 or $1900 a month. [00:14:09]

THERAPIST: Yeah. You don't go on the red line, right? Yeah.

CLIENT: And both of us, as it turns out, could take buses to our workplaces pretty easily, but (pause) both of us want very much to be within walking distance.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah. And I also just like (pause) since I'm the one who saw it and everything, I'm also feeling like, what if it goes badly? My responsibility, whatever. Although she actually pressured me into making a decision where we currently live. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Oh. (laughs)

CLIENT: Because we looked at it and I was just like, "I just want to think on it overnight," and the realtor's like, "You really should now." And I was like, "Okay, Ashby, we'll sign right now, and then you have to buy me a drink, because I'm going to die." So I feel like I just left that. (laughs)

[00:15:13]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Then there's also like hypothetically, we can get money out of our landlord for staying for the [inaudible 00:15:23]. But (pause) that might not happen, in that he may or may not have the money.

THERAPIST: Yeah. For what it's worth and this may already be stuff you know I heard recently about somebody doing that and they take some pains to make it pretty easy to do.

CLIENT: [inaudible 00:15:47]?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. No, it's because of where Ashby works.

THERAPIST: Oh, I bet she knows a lot about that then.

CLIENT: Yeah, her job is sort of getting people out of either super sketchy or unaffordable housing into more affordable housing. It's [inaudible 00:16:05] homelessness prevention. So there are two lawyers in her office.

[00:16:12]

THERAPIST: Great.

CLIENT: One of them was like, "Yeah, I can help you drop the letter to everything." So yeah, no, it's really easy.

THERAPIST: The issue is you just don't have it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What you do then.

CLIENT: Or he might just not even if he doesn't have the money or he's going to try to not pay it, because I'm pretty sure he's going to try that which I know they will then compel him to, but I'm still kind of like, "Meh." (pause)

[00:17:00]

THERAPIST: So (pause) yeah, I wonder if (pause) some of what you're worried about was related to something we've been talking about, that (pause) all this stuff that really matters a lot to you is just going to fall flat, and if no one really cared about that. In other words, that (pause) there's just going to be no housing for you or Ashby in the world, and the managers are not going to care what matters to you and so they're going to screw you over in terms of returning to work not necessarily because they're sadistic, but just maybe just don't care.

[00:18:11]

And (pause) even the whammy with your body, my impression is I thought it was real clear how much you can do or what's going to hurt, and you wind up feeling it after the fact and go, "Shit, I shouldn't have done that." Let alone you're just walking fast. You weren't like running with bags full of stuff for a long way, or cartwheeling or something.

CLIENT: Yeah. And just a couple days ago, I had to walk quickly to the bus stop and I was like, "I did that without pain." I was like super excited, because I was like, "I just feel a little bit tired, as if I walked quickly to the bus stop." And now I'm just like, "Oh, this sucks."

[00:19:13]

(pause) And the other problem, which is also why I'm stuttering more, is when I get really nervous like this, I think just my brain is like it feels like my brain's running a mile a minute, and I'm thinking ahead of what I am able to speak. So it's just hard to get all the words out. (pause) Which also drives me crazy.

THERAPIST: Sure. (pause)

[00:20:00]

CLIENT: Yeah. This is also why I'm like I know I talk quickly, I know I slur my words, etc., etc., and anxiety like this is sort of ramps all of that up a lot. I have yet to find a really great way of not. (pause) My brother also has a stutter. His is more severe, like it happens more than mine.

THERAPIST: I have not been aware of having any more difficulty understanding you than usual. You're pretty clearly aware of it.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm thinking a lot about it.

[00:21:00]

THERAPIST: What is it that you're thinking?

CLIENT: I just get so frustrated that I'm thinking I feel like there's all these things I want to say, and I don't know how to get them like I want to get them all out, but (pause) it feels like it's getting jumbled getting out of my mouth. I know what I think, I know what I'm trying to say, and I have what I'm trying to say is actually what I was thinking about two minutes ago, and so I want to just skip ahead more.

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:21:40].

CLIENT: Right. And (pause) yeah. I feel like when there's like cars stuck in the snow, just hitting the -

THERAPIST: Rrrr, rrr, rrr.

CLIENT: Yeah. Which happened all fucking weekend on the corner of my street. (pause) Yes.

[00:22:05]

And it's just very frustrating, and it also (pause) is one of the times that in addition, too, I'm already freaking out about everything. Not right now, but sometimes I think, "Is this what hypomania is like?" or... especially because of my brother's stutter, and our similarities in how we respond to some things, like medically and psychologically. I'm just kind of like... (pause)

THERAPIST: I think I can appreciate why you worry about that. [inaudible 00:22:59] to me your speech doesn't sound pressured; it sounds like not really opposite, but as though you're having to be sort of more conscious and deliberate in speaking, and that actually you're not conveying information (pause) super fast in the way that somebody who has pressured speech does.

[00:23:37]

It's a little more like, if we were fishing for a hypomanic symptom, I'd go with flight of ideas, because you're thinking so fast.

CLIENT: And is pressured speech more like -

THERAPIST: Pressured speech is "(garbled fast speech)." When I listen to somebody like that, after about five minutes I'm exhausted. I mean, I'm being silly, but...

[00:24:01]

CLIENT: No, no, I know what you mean.

THERAPIST: And this is like, "Whoa," it's sort of this quality of [inaudible 00:24:07] motor and that kind of speech, and you're kind of working hard to keep up, and by the time you have a thought about what happened a minute ago, you're two minutes behind. And that's (pause) it almost sounds like beyond that, as though you're having to kind of be a little more deliberate to actually manage to say the words that are on your mind.

CLIENT: Yeah. The other...

THERAPIST: I get that your ideas are going whoo, really, really fast. But again, I just think it's because you're smart and think really, really fast. I mean, not a very smart how did you do that? But you do. And part of it is your thinking is not disorganized, and again, in somebody that's more hypomanic, it usually would be. There's often a kind of scattered quality to people's speech, and also thought.

[00:25:07]

CLIENT: For me, one of the hugest benefits in the world was getting a computer, because I can type fast, and I write horribly. I have horrible handwriting. My mom has beautiful handwriting; my dad has horrible handwriting; I have horrible handwriting. It's actually kind of sad, because my mom's handwriting is gorgeous. But I always have a problem with papers, because I would write it and half of it was illegible because I was trying to I couldn't keep up. And like hand cramping craziness.

Then I had an electronic typewriter for a little while, which was sort of okay. And having my computer, which I used all through college, black and white. The ability to type as quickly as I can think was so amazing. I felt so much less frustrated, because I'm like, "Oh, thank God. I can write, write, write, write, write, and then go back and edit or whatever."

[00:26:15]

Which is also why I almost always, if I can take notes on my computer, I prefer to do everything on a computer or something, because I can type faster, and it makes me crazy to longhand it.

The other thing I was thinking is that I don't think I've ever actually been around my brother when he was manic. (pause) [inaudible 00:27:00] when he was when we were in Finland and he was psychotic, I think. Or something. He wasn't manic; he was a lot of other things.

[00:27:16]

THERAPIST: I would imagine the experience you're describing is isolating. Because you really can't take the other person with you.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I spent a long time trying to make myself slow down so that my friends could actually understand what I'm saying, and try not to slur when I get excited. But it's super frustrating, because I am totally ready to have this conversation right now, and I know where it's going. Like in my head, it's like, bam, boom. But the other person, they're just sort of sometimes like "What?" or sometimes I get impatient and jump to segue, because I'm like "Argh!" I just want to get to the other part, and then I have to go back and re-explain.

[00:28:28]

THERAPIST: Well, and I imagine there's tremendous pressure to put it out there and share it with the other person, because that's crucially how you're trying to cope with being so anxious.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, you're all full of anxiety about a bunch of different things. Most immediately what's going to happen with this apartment. And you're I think wanting to be able to lay it all out for me and convey it all so you feel a little more contained and can settle down a little bit and we can figure it out together or whatever. And (pause) it's incredibly frustrating not to be able to do that, I gather.

[00:29:14]

CLIENT: Yeah. It's (pause) yes. And the other frustration is, this is when I hate talking [inaudible 00:29:29] in general, but this is the kind of situation where it makes me crazier because I can't see the other person. So I'm like, am I [inaudible 00:29:38] you, and that's not me. I don't know. (pause) So I'm seeing my friends back here at 6:30 and I'm having lunch with another friend, Kayla, tomorrow at 1. And I'm kind of like, on one hand I'm buzzing with all of this. And also, I kind of want to talk it out, just to be like "Get out of my head"; on the other hand, I kind of would rather talk to him about something else, other than my high speed anxiety, if that makes sense.

[00:30:15]

And I think I'm going to have to totally accept help from him to pack, and...

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:30:23].

CLIENT: I don't wanna yes. One of my friends said he's like, "If you would let us, the whole family would just come over, help you pack, and make you dinner." I'm like, "I know, but I have to let you." So (laughs) there's that. We'll see. I think I'm going to have to also because I'm busy all this weekend. And February's short.

THERAPIST: What you're talking about with packing does give me a thought about the speech.

[00:31:09]

CLIENT: Mm-hm.

THERAPIST: (pause) Which may be off base, but here it is: you present it as though it's also a neuropsychological fact, like your thoughts are two minutes ahead of your mouth, and that's how it's always been, and it's incredibly frustrating because (pause) you can't then relate stuff with the person you're talking to, because unfortunately they have to hear what you say, not what you think.

CLIENT: Yes.

[00:32:00]

THERAPIST: Like it's kind of a neuropsychological fact of how things are which it may be. But always looking for the neurotic aspect of things (laughs), I wonder it's like the packing, where there's some part of you that's anxious, also, about putting out there what you think, and that there's some kind of unconscious interference or unconscious interest in keeping a little out of step. As frustrating as I know it is I know it's very frustrating. In the same way that yeah, you got it.

CLIENT: Yes. I also know I mean, I totally know that when I get more anxious, I speed up. Like when I'm in a conversation and we're hitting [inaudible 00:32:49] territory, I'm either very, very [inaudible 00:32:53] I'll slow down, or it's like I don't necessarily notice the [inaudible 00:33:00] that someone else says like "That was a little quick." But sometimes I notice it. It depends.

[00:33:07]

What it also makes me think of is my friend Jamie. Her mother was very abusive towards her emotionally and starved her, and so she used to speak very softly. You could barely hear her. But it wasn't physical, because she could also sing opera loudly. But she would like this quiet kind of mumble. So I can't remember, I think like eight years or so after she'd been out of her mother's house, something like that, she mentioned I said to her that it was easier to hear her. And she's like, "Yeah, it's kind of a problem, because I used to just sort of say things to myself and no one would hear them, and now they can." (laughs) I was like, "Yes." She was [inaudible 00:34:09] just to like was annoyed and said something, and then the person responded and she says like "Oh shit."

[00:34:14]

But also she's like, "I didn't notice quite how" (pause) I think she just was like, "Well, I just speak quietly," and hadn't totally connected it to her [inaudible 00:34:35] mother. And now she speaks much she's still soft spoken, but is now a normal soft spoken, as opposed to always having to lean in to hear her. (pause)

[00:35:00]

But yeah, I don't know. It's kind of (pause) it's hard for me to I guess I don't know if I think of it as a neuropsychological fact; I just think of it mostly as like, "This is a thing about me." I read really quickly, I talk really quickly.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah, that's sort of what I meant, just in like [inaudible 00:35:27] language for no reason. (laughs) (pause) No doubt you think [inaudible 00:35:42] bizarre fact about you, but I guess I -

CLIENT: Yeah. No, but I also see that it's like also a habit or pattern, because I can somewhat I've been able to break some of the habit, or parts of it [inaudible 00:36:05] a lot, but when I get more stressed and anxious, it's very hard to it's hard to think to pause, take a breath, or to not just get everything jumbled.

[00:36:26]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Actually, I don't mean jumbled out of order; just like saying it so fast that -

THERAPIST: It's disorganized.

CLIENT: Yes. And especially after you've given people the segue.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I can recall a few times when that's happened, where I've said "Wait, I didn't get how this led to that," and you're like, "Oh yes, I dadadadada."

CLIENT: Yeah. It's like that's the thing which all my friends complain about. Not in a mad way, just sort of more like "Just give me the segue," and I'm like, "Okay, fine." Then they're like, "Oh yeah, I see where you're going now." I was busy. (laughs) I wanted to get to the more interesting part.

[00:37:11]

(pause) Yeah. But also the friend I'm going to have dinner with is a little hard of hearing sometimes. I'm mentally going "Ahhh!" I'm at high speed always, and I just [inaudible 00:37:37] in general, and I'm just like, "This is going to suck." I'm hoping we can get a quiet table. (pause) And also, this is the feeling of just being like too full of energy. I often will [inaudible 00:38:02] onto the gym or walked around in circles. Not literally, but whatever. Right now, I'm just like "I can't," and I can do a lot of hand motions, but I would feel much more able to get the stress out if I could walk quickly somewhere.

[00:38:24]

THERAPIST: I see. Sure. I would imagine you're quite frustrated about that as well. In other words, not being able to do stuff like that.

CLIENT :Yeah. Like I (pause) I'm not a regular gym-goer. I never really have been, although I've tried. But the ability to be like, "Fuck it, I'm getting on my bicycle" and whatever, or [inaudible 00:39:01] a lot of weight or [inaudible 00:39:02] I got enjoyment out of, and it was very satisfying. Especially bicycling. I'm like, "Oh, I'm going somewhere very quickly. This is awesome."

[00:39:11]

And I'm just feeling very (pause) frustrated about it. My friends that exercise, do physical things, are all doing things that are either beyond my physical level or so my friend Mellie loves rock climbing, which you can do just with upper body strength, because she has little body strength.

THERAPIST: She's the one is she in a wheelchair? [inaudible 00:39:50].

CLIENT: Yeah, she is. [inaudible 00:39:53].

THERAPIST: Oh. And she loves rock climbing?

CLIENT: She loves rock climbing. Because you can do it -

[00:40:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Sure.

CLIENT: Her muscles are amazing. So I'm like, I could totally [inaudible 00:40:07] except for I have a fear of heights. You don't want to go rock climbing. Which is like she loves rock climbing, and I always think, "I really wish I could enjoy that with you. I cannot enjoy that with you."

THERAPIST: That's one of the things I'm sure you guys have talked about and you've thought about it, but I'll say it anyway: even like while learning stuff?

CLIENT: Yeah. [inaudible 00:40:38] rock climbing gym, which was really awesome, and (pause) the bouldering is like kind of okay, but there's just such a to me, I'm like, there's this looming it feels like there's the looming, about to go on the ropes of rock climbing. I feel like bouldering is a slippery slope, it's a gateway drug to rock climbing. (laughs)

[00:41:11]

THERAPIST: Which would be too scary.

CLIENT: Yes, which is ridiculous. But (laughs) I know it's really ridiculous, but I just remember being at the [inaudible 00:42:24], just kind of like... And a couple friends' kids were there, and I'm just like (sigh) "Little kids. Damn it." They also have like a shorter it's like a smaller thing for them to climb, because they're kids. And I was looking at it, and I was still like, "No, I don't wanna do that." Then one of my friends was pressuring me to do it because I was scared. Her theory was if you're scared of something, you should do it. And I told her I thought she was full of crap. So that was also a bit of a [inaudible 00:42:09].

[00:42:10]

(pause) I also kind of want to talk to Ashby right now about it, but I don't know what we would say that would make me feel better. Like (pause) the money is the money. That's kind of... (pause)

[00:43:00]

I guess I kind of feel like it's not so hard when I talk about it, because I'm like, "Well, this is how much the rent is. You can tell me yes or no." Do you know what I mean? We can talk about how I feel about the money, or I could talk about how she talks to me how she feels about it. But if she can afford it is kind of a fact. Our ability to afford it is a fact, and I want to process it in a way that somehow that fact is easier. Because I hate thinking about financials, and (pause) I'm worried that I'm pressuring her into an apartment.

[00:44:02]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And I'm pretty sure she would not that she would say no, but (pause) I am a little worried that this is going to be a secret, like in six months she's going to let me know how I'm trying to ruin her life. And I don't [inaudible 00:44:29].

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:44:34], yeah.

CLIENT: Especially not in [inaudible 00:44:38] like right now.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I think it's time to stop, but there's something that I feel like I don't understand well, or I'm not putting my finger on, to do with (pause) I feel like I am also having a hard time figuring out a way to talk to you about this that will help you be reassured. I mean, clearly, it's not like I'm going to go and negotiate the rent. That's not what I mean. Or do your budget for you.

[00:45:19]

But there's something going on where your anxiety is such that (pause) it's hard to find a way of yeah.

CLIENT: For me, it feels like I am coming up with ways to disagree with you before you have a chance to say something reassuring. (laughs) Which is really irritating to me. In my head I'm like, well, [inaudible 00:45:51] someone could say, "No, I'm sure you can afford it," and then I'm already thinking of the reassuring things someone would say, and then the defensive "No, but this all sucks" that I could then respond to. But also thinking actually, maybe you're being a little knee-jerk; you could sort of...

[00:46:12]

THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:46:14] about it sort of like you're probably pushing me away.

CLIENT: I'm thinking of the defensiveness, like me feeling defensive or responding defensively, but also thinking about trying to not respond defensively at the same time.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Which is also a lot to be doing at this. (laughs)

THERAPIST: When you're already anxious about all of this stuff.

CLIENT: Yeah. [inaudible 00:46:41], I'm like, that's a great thing to be doing. Smart, brain.

THERAPIST: I see. Gotcha.

CLIENT: Like, why does my brain do this? But it does.

THERAPIST: We have to stop for now. [inaudible 00:46:55] appointment on Friday, but you did not want to meet on Fridays, right?

CLIENT: I can't meet on this Friday. I guess (pause) yeah, I think I still don't want to meet on Fridays.

[00:47:10]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I will probably know a little more about my schedule by next week as well.

CLIENT: Okay. For me, right now, to do the week is good. (pause) I sort of tossed my head back and forth on back-to-back versus a day in between. But in terms of work, Tuesday/Wednesday evenings are perfect. Because it's [inaudible 00:47:47].

THERAPIST: Okay. You okay?

CLIENT: Yeah. I just was a little slower than I thought.

[00:48:00]

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: Coat... All right, I will see you on Tuesday.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

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