TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Alright.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Today's the kind of day that made me not want to have kids. It wasn't too bad. But they were... (PAUSE) I don't know. They don't... I don't know. They don't organize the classroom well and I feel like the only one that does any of the hard labor.

THERAPIST: What? The other, the other instructors, the other...

CLIENT: The other teachers.

THERAPIST: ...teachers?

CLIENT: And so like one of them just sits with the babies other one is like cleaning up but has a bad shoulder and is like going super slow. And I'm like pulling kids off the shelf and like trying to get them to sit down and not crawl on top of each other. And I don't know. [00:01:01]

It just like I, I don't really know what to say about like the division of labor because that's how they always had it. And so like no wonder Audrey was failing. Like...

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: You were setting her up to fail.

THERAPIST: Why? Because she, there just was, there wasn't enough people to do everything that needed to be done and...

CLIENT: Yeah, and they don't, they don't combine the, the toddlers and the infants. They don't have like two teachers in the same area at the same time. So...

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: There's like one teacher who's feeding a bottle and like bouncing a baby in the chair. Which is fine. But like she could be doing that with us. You know? Like sitting on the toddler side to do that. (PAUSE) I don't know. I just... (SIGH) I told you about the guy I met on the bus, on the train like last weekend before. [00:02:05]

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: I sent that woman who he told me about an e-mail but she hasn't e-mailed me back.

THERAPIST: It was what? The catering thing?

CLIENT: It's like... I guess it's like conference halls or something, conference rooms. And they also like cater for you and stuff. But she hasn't e-mailed me back and I just asked her about like what it's like. I didn't like send her my application or...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...cover letter or anything but I haven't heard back from her. And I have like, I'm like halfway through a cover letter and resume for another place. But it'd be a lot of driving and sales which, I mean, like I can do. But I'm not really that interested in sales. [00:02:59]

THERAPIST: What's this place?

CLIENT: It is a toy company but mostly they sell to schools.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah. So they make like educational toys and stuff.

THERAPIST: Is that right? Do you like them? The toys they make?

CLIENT: I do like the toys they make. (PAUSE) They're okay I guess. But the ones, the position is open for like elementary schools. So I don't know what they're elementary school toys are like. And then... But I don't know.

THERAPIST: The opening is to be like an elementary school rep?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like you'd rep the toys that are for...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...geared towards them.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. They still would probably be on the younger end of elementary right? Because it's not like they're buying fifth graders a lot of toys for schools.

CLIENT: Well, right. But it would be like first, second, third grade or something. [00:04:01]

THERAPIST: Right. K, 1, 2, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. But they want you to have like four years of experience in elementary teaching. I'm sorry. But if you have four years of experience in elementary teaching, are you really going to take commission based sales job?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: That's interesting.

CLIENT: With 75 percent driving.

THERAPIST: How many years have you been doing what you're doing?

CLIENT: Two and a half.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: But it wouldn't be a pay increase for a teacher. I mean, I can't imagine it would be.

THERAPIST: You mean for an elementary school teacher?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Yeah, well. Hmm. Yeah, right there can't be that big of a commission.

CLIENT: I mean, maybe they'll pay you like fifty before commission. That would be a lot (inaudible).

THERAPIST: It's salary plus commission?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, okay.

CLIENT: But like... I don't know. [00:05:01]

THERAPIST: And you, there's a lot of driving and stuff?

CLIENT: Yeah. They said 75 percent of it would be driving. That seems like a lot. Especially since I don't know the area very well.

THERAPIST: How do you feel about a drive?

CLIENT: I don't think I'm a bad driver but nobody likes it when I drive.

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Well, you won't have anyone else in the car with you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But what about you traveling around and stuff?

CLIENT: I think I would be okay. I mean, I get a little stressed out in the car sometimes but I'd get used to it.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: But I'd have to buy a car or lease a car.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Mmm. Boy I think they'd want to give you a car.

CLIENT: You'd think.

THERAPIST: If there's 75 percent. That's a lot of, that's a lot of miles. That's a lot... I mean, I'm sure they have to...

CLIENT: They have to compensate...

THERAPIST: They have to compensate.

CLIENT: ...really well...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...for that many miles on your car everyday. [00:06:11]

THERAPIST: That adds up. That adds up.

CLIENT: My dad get compensated for his driving. He puts like a thousand miles on his car a week or something like that. (PAUSE) And he doesn't even do that much.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: He has an office.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, they're almost better off just leasing. Because they probably have to reimburse gas too. Huh?

CLIENT: Yeah, they'd have to reimburse you for gas. Yeah, Phil's really discouraged about finding a job. He went to something on... I guess it was Monday or Tuesday night. You know? Young professionals in planning or something like that.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: And, you know, everybody had these jobs they were talking about and he was disappointed he still has this internship. And so... [00:07:09]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: How long has it been since he graduated?

CLIENT: He graduated in May but he's had this internship since January.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They're like dragging their feet whether they want to hire. They don't really know what they want. And so he's really discouraged and he's applying to these places all over but I feel like I don't know how much follow up he's doing. I feel like he's putting his application in and never looking, you know, trying to contact them again. You know?

THERAPIST: What do you think it's like for him to follow up and everything? What's the... [00:07:53]

CLIENT: I think he has anxiety about and... Or like if the application or the job whatever says, "No phone calls about this position," he's scared to call and ask, you know, "Has the position been filled? Are you still looking for somebody? What can I do to supplement my application?" Like I've never heard him make that kind of phone call. And, you know, there's lots of times when he's at home and I'm not but... Because he only works like thirty hours a week or something. But he... I asked what I could do to support him and he just, he said that he feels like he wants me to also apply for jobs so that we're both looking and he doesn't feel as alone, I guess, in the search. So I can do that. But I don't even know what I want with my life...

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: ...for a career anyway, I mean. So...

(PAUSE) [00:09:01]

CLIENT: So I mean, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, I already put in an application with the nanny service for the second time. I haven't heard back from them. I don't know if I'm asking too much money per week. If I'm going to work a ten or twelve day, I want to be making twenty dollars an hour. And they said, "How much do you want a week before taxes?" I said, "Seven hundred dollars." That's pretty much, you know, if it's a forty hour week, that's, I mean...

THERAPIST: That's 35,000.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's not...

CLIENT: So that's not even twenty dollars an hour.

(PAUSE) [00:09:59]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No I think you're, I think you're, you know, just like as with you're describing Phil, I think, I think the more that you feel (SIGH) the more that you feel kind of comfortable with the idea of, you know... In other words, I think there's some degree of difficulty of, of thinking about what you want to do has something to do with how it immediately brings up these kind of anxieties around, "Do I have enough of what it takes to do this or that?" What does it mean to, you know, go out there and sell yourself, et cetera. Because I was thinking about the guy you met on the train and that in some way, you had some link, some connection, personal connection to this guy and it made you feel comfortable enough to e-mail and follow up. [00:11:01]

I mean, with the addition of maybe it sounds like an interesting job to have. Who knows? But you were willing to kind of go, "Hey. Well, why not?" I think it had something to do with the sense that the guy must have thought that you were okay doing the job.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I told him how, when I moved to the city, I thought everybody so mean. I would just go out of my way to be nice to people and asked them if they need help with their tickets or where they were going and he was like, "Oh, well..." And I guess we'd already talked about jobs or whatever in marketing. And he told me about this company and he's in marketing for... He's like a consultant for businesses or something. So like if he had something, he might have told me but he put me in this direction instead. So I just looked... I don't know. It seemed like not... They didn't have any actually job postings. They were just like, "We're always, not always looking but we're in the market for..." You know? And they want you to have hospitality experience which I don't really have. But... I mean, unless you consider taking care of your kid hospitality. Which it isn't really, but..

THERAPIST: Yeah they, what do they mean? Like food service or hotel service or something?

CLIENT: Yeah, they want you to have food service or hospitality experience. So like experience at a hotel or at a restaurant or, you know, a catering business. (PAUSE) But I don't know what I'm good at anymore besides yelling at kids, peeling them off the shelves. [00:13:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean, the way that, it sounds like the way you can kind of feel, I'm almost imagining a drained confidence, confidence that's kind of been sapped or something. I, I just think in my mind back to it seems to have been that way from some experiences in school. Like it's kind of like it's that kind of same familiar, like people will, a certain kind of skepticism there about who you are and what you, what do you have to offer and how good you are.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know? And an internal feeling of that, an internal feeling of not being sure of how, what you have to offer, how, what you can do.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(PAUSE) [00:14:00]

THERAPIST: And I think the job, it sounds like, yeah, gosh, it doesn't give you a lot, it doesn't give you a lot of... You know, the place just isn't setup to give you a lot of really like positive...

CLIENT: Don't get me started on my boss. Oh my goodness. One is out for knee surgery for twelve weeks. I mean, she might as well be having a kid. Right?

THERAPIST: Twelve weeks?

CLIENT: Twelve weeks for a knee surgery, knee replacement. Yeah. Probably because that's the max you can get under Family Medical Leave Act. Just like maternity leave. Or that's how much she has in her medical bank, whatever. They (inaudible) for us anymore.

(PAUSE) [00:15:00]

CLIENT: So last night we had this staff meeting all about nutrition and food choices and the food that comes into the center and what we serve the children. Our knee surgery director wasn't there. Our assistant director wasn't there and our cook wasn't there and we were like, "We don't make these decisions. Like we don't even know if the fruit is packed in syrup or juice or light syrup. Like it just comes to us in a bowl." You know? And like the, there was...

THERAPIST: Was it, what like some sort of inservice training or something like that?

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, we have staff meetings and so they do staff meetings to do training and(PAUSE) and, you know, so we get our credit hours, our continuing education hours. And so they had this food thing that they did and they had people from another center that were there, you know, sharing the presentation with us so the people don't have to come out to (inaudible) twice. [00:16:05]

And the people were being so ignorant. Like, this one woman, "These women should know better than to take their kids to Burger King to dinner every night. If they don't know that, then they shouldn't have had a kid." You know? Like really terrible things. Our directors weren't there to like listen to the people about food choices or about, you know, our meat is too salty. Our, you know, we don't see any fresh vegetables. You know? All the stuff. And it's just like bullshit. Like, like how is anything supposed to change if the decision makers are not there?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: You know? And like I felt like going into my boss's office and saying, "Everybody's pissed that you weren't there." But like what am I supposed... I mean, like how am I supposed to say that without coming off like an insolent, insubordinate bitch? Like, I don't really know... And I mean... [00:17:09]

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Like it's not... I mean, she might have already done some sort of similar training. But if they had, we would have seen, hopefully we would have seen a difference in the food that comes. (PAUSE) You know? Like you can't make turkey meatloaf instead of beef meatloaf? I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. But... You know, I think there's some sense of like the whatever your, whatever the leaders are providing or setting as an example does little to inspire or give you much. Yeah. [00:18:05]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (SIGH)

CLIENT: And they, they're not good at saying thank you and like thank you for specific things.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I guess it's too set up a sense of like the place in general being one where people in general want get out of doing, doing less.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And yeah, not a very inspirational place for you. (PAUSE) God. I just think of that... It sounds like people can kind of really get... Well, I don't know. Maybe it's more of a question to ask. But it seems like it's, I can kind of be a demoralizing place and have (LAUGHTER) set up a system where it's kind of hard to get out at the same time.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:19:03]

THERAPIST: You know? Hard to feel like, "Oh, well I've gotten this good experience here and now I'm going to go elsewhere." It's more like, "I don't get much from this environment. I feel bad here but it's... At least I've got something."

CLIENT: Right. And that's what they'll tell you when you go in and you're like, "I'm kind of unhappy and they'll be like, "If you really want to make money, you should be in a different field."

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: Or, you know, "I know it's hard work. And you just..." And they say like, "Come to me if you have any issues." But it's like, they also say basically the message like, "I don't want to hear it." Because my boss, my assistant director, even though she is the only director in the building because my other boss is on knee surgery whatever, she puts a note on her door that says, "I'm having my lunch break. Come back in half an hour." And you knock on her door and she doesn't respond. And you know she's in there. [00:19:59]

Like we have an issue, like about coverage and she doesn't even answer the door. Like she's not, it's like she's emotionally not there for us or presence of mind. I don't know. What... I mean, if she really didn't want to be there, she should just leave the building.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: But I guess what I, what I sense in you too is you don't know how the hell to get out of this.

CLIENT: I don't know how. I don't know how to get out. No. (PAUSE) And now I'm over qualified. Because I have lead teacher certification but no lead teacher, no, like hardly and teacher, like one classroom teacher experience. You know? [00:21:07]

I could just apply to this other place but I've heard terrible things about it that they'll send teachers home with no pay if the numbers are low, that they have like hours that are like six to six. Some kids are there the whole day.

THERAPIST: Well, hey... And I guess you're sort of saying it's kind of a lengthy... Like the leadership's telling you, "If you think it's better out there you might be wrong."

CLIENT: Well, I mean, that's exactly what my, my boss told me that about that place.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It's like nine to twelve.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you think it's better out there, good luck. It's not. [00:22:07]

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: What's coming to mind. What do you get?

CLIENT: I'm just looking at your books.

THERAPIST: Yeah, what?

CLIENT: Thinking about when the (inaudible) is going to come out. [00:23:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It was supposed to... I was like... When I was like a senior in college, it was supposed to come out.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, I noticed you ask that a lot. What is that?

CLIENT: Because I want to know what the autism, the new autism description is.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And they've been linking autism to all sorts of autoimmune things in pregnancy. I haven't read that article yet though.

THERAPIST: Is there something about the autism and something that really, you know...

CLIENT: Well, I still really think about Martin a lot. He's doing a lot better. But... (PAUSE) I feel like it's so common now that like we have to figure out ways to prevent it.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: So I like try not to use Purell anymore so I can build up my autoimmune responses.

(PAUSE) [00:24:05]

THERAPIST: It's because there's these links between that auto immune deficiencies...

CLIENT: Autoimmune deficiencies and like being sick during pregnancy.

THERAPIST: And yeah, autism, right. (PAUSE) Yeah it's... But you've, you've. That seems to capture your imagination, in a way. The autism specifically.

CLIENT: Yeah. It does. I'm not sure why. I guess I wonder a lot like what it's like and then like what...

(PAUSE) [00:25:00]

THERAPIST: What do you wonder it's like?

CLIENT: I don't know. I mean, like some people have autism and they can't stand all the stimulation that's coming at them and they and they just like bug out and then some need more stimulation coming at them. Martin is that way. He would get up and walk around during lunch. He would grab his food and shove it in his face and then we'd have to put him between the table and the plexiglass on a chair, the plexiglass that divides the room. And he would bang his head real hard, "Clonk, clonk," against the...

THERAPIST: Mm hmm. [00:25:55]

CLIENT: And then would he would get mad, he would either bite himself really hard or bite his, bang his head. Even when he was in his crib, he would do that. He would bang his head against the crib wall. You know, there's like two rails and then there's like plexiglass. He would bang his head against the plexiglass when he would get upset. I mean, you wouldn't even know he would be upset. He'd be sitting in his crib and you'd see that he was awake and then he would like bang his head...

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: ...for what seemed no reasons. We would be like, "We don't know why you're getting upset." And then he would say things like, he'd say, "More soup?" And we'd say, "How do you ask?" And he'd say, "How do you ask?" And we'd say, "Say please." And he'd say, "Say please."

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: You know? And his parents... I mean, his grandma's been around a lot more. But his mom, you know, has to prompt him to like turn around and say goodbye to Crystal. And he'll look at me and say, "Bye Crystal." You know? But...

(PAUSE) [00:27:07]

CLIENT: I read online like a couple of months ago, I don't know if I told you this but, number one career with like the most depression is child care.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Like teaching young children or something like that.

THERAPIST: Hmm. Yeah, well I was thinking about the, as you were talking about the autism, these autistic underestimated, overstimulated and that in some way captures the dilemma that you're going through now around underestimated at work in some way.

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:28:01]

THERAPIST: But sometimes overstimulated.

CLIENT: Overworked, yeah.

THERAPIST: And overstimulated when you think about, you know, going out and searching. It's like it hits you, all this stuff, all the stimuli hits you, the stimuli.

CLIENT: Well, I'd rather be reading or watching TV or like... The last thing I want to do it sit down for three hours and look for new jobs.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And I don't know how people do it. Nicole (ph) texted me the other day and said, "I applied for thirteen jobs." I'm like, "Slow down because I don't want your job and I know they're going to offer it to me if you leave. So please... (LAUGHTER) Like..."

THERAPIST: Yeah, because if you got the job...

CLIENT: Because I'm lead teacher certified so they would offer it to me.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And if you took it, what then?

CLIENT: I'd be trapped again.

THERAPIST: Trapped again?

CLIENT: At least her classroom is like away from all the drama. But like... (SIGH)

(PAUSE) [00:29:00]

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. In order to get rid of all that, you know, in order to kind of manage all that over stimulating environment, you kind of need to go and find some peace in some way to get, you know, to, in the words of the autism world, like self regulate or something.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah and then but when you're that under regulated so that banging the head against the wall?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's too... (LAUGHTER) It's not enough.

CLIENT: Do you have clients on the spectrum? Am I allowed to ask you that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don't see anybody on the... No one comes to mind. I certainly have worked with people. Yeah, why do you ask that? Why do you think... [00:30:01]

CLIENT: I guess because I think like since you're a therapist, you should know about people on the spectrum.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: I guess not every therapist does.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Yeah. But I should know. What about that?

CLIENT: I don't know. Like you're a psychologist. You should know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. But is it... Are getting at maybe some way I should be understanding you?

CLIENT: No. I don't think I'm on the spectrum.

THERAPIST: But something that's not that's not necessarily autism per se.

CLIENT: No. I just thought maybe you would have a perspective on autism that I don't.

THERAPIST: Oh, oh. Yeah.

(PAUSE) [00:31:00]

THERAPIST: Like...

CLIENT: Like new stuff. You know.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah (inaudible at 00:31:19) (PAUSE) Yeah, where'd you, where did you go?

CLIENT: My house is a mess and I don't know how to clean and I don't have the energy to clean and get rid of things. And at the rate we're going, we're still going to be living here when we're getting married so we're going to have all these wedding gifts with no place to put them. So yeah... [00:32:09]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Mmm. (PAUSE) Trapped and crowded, huh?

CLIENT: And I mean, like the apartment is perfectly sized for two people. It's ample size for two people. We just have way too much stuff.

(PAUSE) [00:33:00]

THERAPIST: I was just thinking. All this stuff seems to exhaust you after a while.

CLIENT: It does. (PAUSE) So what were you doing when you were twenty six, and you were three weeks away, two weeks away from your twenty seventh birthday? [00:34:01]

THERAPIST: I was in... Was I in grad school by then? Wait a sec... (WHISPERING) No, I wasn't yet in grad school. It was the year before, it was the year, it was the spring before I went to grad school. Yeah, so I was working, I was working a job at the time.

CLIENT: Where is that school?

THERAPIST: New Hampshire.

CLIENT: Oh, okay.

THERAPIST: Not very far. (LAUGHTER) In every sort, every...

CLIENT: Every sort right?

THERAPIST: ...every sort of way. Yeah.

CLIENT: Phil applied for a job in Philadelphia.

THERAPIST: I think I remember you saying that. Yeah.

CLIENT: What's Philadelphia like? [00:35:00]

THERAPIST: It's a really great city.

CLIENT: Yeah?

THERAPIST: Yep. It's a great city. I mean, in my opinion. I really like it. I really like it. I think it's a great city. (PAUSE) Yeah, what were you thinking though when you asked the question? What...

CLIENT: I don't know. I feel like I'm twenty seven and I have nothing to show for it. You know? Like I could go to grad school but like I don't want to mire myself in debt with like no actual plan. Like I know everybody does it. Bad economy, no plans, go to grad school. It seems like a dumb plan to me. But like so is staying at school. So... I just should have switched into speech pathology at school or something... Something useful.

(PAUSE) [00:36:01]

THERAPIST: Does it kind of bring you down to hear that I did, I was doing that as...

CLIENT: I mean, it doesn't surprise me.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I was just hearing, when you compare, making a comparison...

CLIENT: No, I mean, I'm not comparing just to you.

THERAPIST: No, no. I know. Right.

CLIENT: Compared to everybody else... Like everybody else has their shit together.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: And like I guess people might think I have my shit together. I'm getting married. But I don't really have my shit together.

THERAPIST: Why do you think you don't have your shit together? What, what have you got?

CLIENT: I mean, like I'm like earning by the skin of my teeth barely above the poverty level like or at poverty level but not low enough for it to count for anything. [00:37:01]

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: I don't make enough money to cover my expenses for the month. I have to take money out of my trust. Like I, you know, went to college, have a great education, but I can't get, you know, a good job. I can't even begin to think about trying to get a good job. You know? I don't even know if I'm worth a good job.

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: So like everybody else who's like living in New York City. Or like I have a friend from middle schools who is great, smart, nice, kind, works for a publisher. Like I don't know how she got the job because it's a math publisher and she and I were never math people. She was like, "I just worked my butt off to get the job." I think she probably just kept pestering and pestering and being like, "I want this job. I want this job." You know? But like...

(PAUSE) [00:38:07]

CLIENT: I feel like, now that I've given, I've gotten all this daycare experience, like how the hell am I supposed to get a job in marketing or in business or in anything that's going to make me have enough money to pay my own rent? You know? Like great. Like it's supposed to be a place holder job but now I have no experience in marketing. So what am I supposed to do? Go take an unpaid internship?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Like... And I understand how it stresses Phil out. Like because it feels like I'm depending on him to like make some money so I can do something like...

THERAPIST: Like that? Like make a career switch?

CLIENT: Yeah, you know, so... You know? Or so I be a housewife. You know? [00:39:11]

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: I don't want him to feel that pressure. It's not fair to him but like I feel like, you know, I shat (ph) and now I have to lie in it.

THERAPIST: Hmm. And there's no cleaning it up. I mean, what is that?

CLIENT: No. There's no going... I feel like, I mean, like...

THERAPIST: Hmm. Hmm.

CLIENT: I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I could go ask the school alumni but like (PAUSE) they weren't helpful when I was the office of whatever like not alumni affairs but like the office that's supposed to help you work on your resume and shit.

THERAPIST: Mmm. [00:40:00]

CLIENT: They weren't helpful when I was a student. How are they going to be helpful now?

THERAPIST: Mmm.

CLIENT: You know, I would talk about a specific job or networking and she'd look at my resume and fix my resume for half an hour and send me on my way. And I'm like, "This isn't what I'm here for?" You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like, "Oh, you have to align this way and align this..." And I'm like, you know, like, you're a bitch. Nobody... You don't help anybody. And like...

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Even if you know you wanted a specific job or you want to do networking with someone you know is an alumni they won't give you the alumni's contact information. You know? My roommate, Matt, he went in there to try fink the guy from Radio Disney or Disney, Disney Channel TV or whatever. He was an alum and he spoke at our graduation and they wouldn't give him... Not our graduation. The graduation after ours. They wouldn't give him like the business contact for him to be like, you know? Like what the fuck? Like if it's in your binder, that's what it's there for. I haven't given a red cent to that school since I graduated. And I give every year to my high school. [00:41:21]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Actually I don't know if I gave this year. I think I did. But like...

THERAPIST: But yeah, you did feel like you got really, I mean, like the, the stuff you needed.

CLIENT: Like...

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: ...no I don't...

THERAPIST: Yes. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I hear you saying too, like, as you go out there, in the... And you're right. I mean, God. It is tough to one, switch careers when you've kind of been going in one direction. It's not easy. You're not making this stuff up, the difficulties about this stuff. It's hard. [00:41:59]

And it's also hard when there's not a lot of, you know, help in the, at least in the familiar directions that you, or the, the obvious ones. There's not... You know, you're kind of out there on your own a bit. Not a bit. You are. And it's... I hear it's both somewhat demoralizing but maybe even more so it's frustrating as hell.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So it's really frustrating.

CLIENT: It's very frustrating.

THERAPIST: And it's a, it's a long kind of slog to get to something different. You're right. I mean... Yeah. That's true. It is. I mean, you're not (LAUGHTER) you know, manufacturing this stuff. I think you're describing exactly why it's hard to move, to do stuff, to make changes like this. [00:43:07]

You know, it takes a lot. And it takes a lot out of you especially as you're trying to make some money right now. You need to contribute right now and it takes energy to and time and dealing with a lot of frustration and dead ends to look for something now.

(PAUSE) [00:44:00]

THERAPIST: I also sense it's a bit intimidating. It's a daunting task. It's a... Because you're new to all this stuff. You're going into...

CLIENT: And like how am I supposed to convince somebody that because I've worked in child care, I can sell catering packages. Like I don't know. I don't know. I'm friendly. I can, I can speak very candidly but I can also be very judicious. I don't know. Like fair? You know? Try and choose my words very carefully. But I don't know what skills it takes to work in the catering business. I hear you might have to work Saturdays.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:45:00]

CLIENT: But like I've all but ruled out a job in the marketing field. I don't even know if I would like it. I, I kind of feel like a lot of marketing is unfair to the consumer. It creates want that people, you know, deep seeded desires that people wouldn't otherwise have. And like I didn't use to think that. I used to think that the consumer should have to be educated and use their money the way that is best for their family. But, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:45:59]

CLIENT: When the Burger King is right across the street and the smell wafts into the school, how are you supposed to not want to go to Burger King. I work across the street from a Burger King and there's plenty of families that say, "Oh, you want to go get some chicken nuggets?" to their kids.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Well, listen. We, we're running just a little low on time and I just wanted to check in with you about next... What's your story about next week?

CLIENT: We're driving next week.

THERAPIST: Okay. So we're gone for two weeks? Two Wednesdays?

CLIENT: You're not going to be here on the twenty eighth?

THERAPIST: No, I'll be here on the twenty either. It's two Wednesdays.

CLIENT: So not next... Oh yeah. So our next appointment is on the twenty eighth.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And that'll be here. That'll be the last one that's here.

CLIENT: Okay.

END TRANSCRIPT