Client "E", Session December 05, 2012: Client has been mulling over the possibility of applying for nanny positions. trial

in Neo-Kleinian Psychoanalytic Approach Collection by Anonymous Male Therapist; presented by Anonymous (Alexandria, VA: Alexander Street, 2013, originally published 2013), 1 page(s)

TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I guess I need to send you, I sent you out the $200 for the last time?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think the last check was $180.

CLIENT: And I sent you $100 after that.

THERAPIST: No, no, no, the last, the last bill was for like $300 and you sent me $180.

CLIENT: Oh, okay.

THERAPIST: And just a heads up for you, in terms of my vacation schedule, I'm going to be away the week, from the 24th of December and back, my first day back will be the 3rd of January.

CLIENT: Okay, that really doesn't mean anything to me until I look at a the calendar.

THERAPIST: Yeah so, we'll wind up missing one week, I'll have to miss one of our Wednesdays.

CLIENT: This is much easier to get to by the way.

THERAPIST: Yeah, good.

CLIENT: Okay, so the 26th and then what day are you coming back?

THERAPIST: I'm coming back, my first day back is the 2nd.

CLIENT: Okay, so I'll see you on the 2nd then, well, I'll see you on the 12th I think, I have a staff meeting, I think. Yes. Looks like a Wednesday. I have a staff meeting so I'll see you on the 19th and then

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah, yeah, I was thinking I might have a, I think I might have something this next Wednesday, so I was wondering

CLIENT: That's the 12th.

THERAPIST: What were you going to say, I'm sorry what did you just say?

CLIENT: I said I have a staff meeting on the 12th.

THERAPIST: So you can't

CLIENT: If you can't listen to me at 6 o'clock then we shouldn't be meeting.

THERAPIST: (laughter) Hey, I, I told you I'm not at my best at 6. You've been given fair warning. No, I was distracted, I was thinking about my schedule. [00:02:03]

CLIENT: Okay, I can't meet next week I have a staff meeting.

THERAPIST: Okay, can you do the 11th, the Tuesday?

CLIENT: Probably.

THERAPIST: At this time, at 6:05?

CLIENT: Yeah, okay.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay good. Oh that's what it was, okay, yeah.

CLIENT: So I joined this website that helps people find nannies.

THERAPIST: You did.

CLIENT: Yeah, so I have to like, keep setting up my profile and I have to like, get people to give me references and stuff.

THERAPIST: It's like Match.com but for

CLIENT: Yeah it's called aupair.com.

THERAPIST: Is that right? And what, people can kind of view your profile and send an e-mail,

CLIENT: Right and I can, I can send them an e-mail that say's I'm interested in their job posting. I don't know they keep trying to get me to upgrade to some premium channels or something.

THERAPIST: How much are (background noise) (inaudible at [00:03:23]

CLIENT: Oh it's free for what I'm doing right now, but every time somebody wants to do a background check on me, it's going to cost me $8.

THERAPIST: For them to run a back why don't they pay?

CLIENT: I don't, I guess

THERAPIST: Wouldn't they only need one?

CLIENT: You would only need one, well they might do two, they might do [inaudible] but they would, I guess if they,

THERAPIST: I mean if somebody does it one time doesn't that count forever kind of thing?

CLIENT: I think that, I don't know if it, I mean it counts until I get in trouble with the law I guess.

THERAPIST: Right, right, or good for a year or something like that.

CLIENT: Right, I mean I think that, I think that the website doesn't run it, it's up to the families to run it, and so, if do know the family runs it,,,

THERAPIST: Why the hell do you have to pay, that doesn't make any sense. [00:04:10]

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: They should have to pay.

CLIENT: I don't know why, well, I guess I'll have to read in to it more. I have a friend who's on it so I can ask her about it. But a lot of the families want to pay $10 and hour, or less. Not less, but like $10-15 and hour and I'm asking for $15-20. Especially if I'm going to be responsible for my own health insurance.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, you could get $20.

CLIENT: I don't see how people aren't getting $20.

THERAPIST: Well, I probably, yeah what were you saying?

CLIENT: If you aren't getting $20 then you probably have one kid and you're not expected to do anything. Like a lot of them want you to do like light housework, you know, towards like the baby, like maybe the baby's laundry or meal preparation. Like, I'm willing to do that stuff, as long as your kid is an easy kid to handle. And is like okay being in a chair playing with Cheerios while I cook. Like, but I'm not that great at meal preparation, and like it's going to get old fast, just to warn you. (chuckle)

THERAPIST: Yeah, well, yeah what do you think -

CLIENT: It's just I don't have a great repertoire. Unless they meal plan

THERAPIST: The fruit's going to get old for the kid fast (chuckle)

CLIENT: Yeah but they also want, I think, I mean I'd be perfectly willing to prepare food for the child. I mean, a lot of people I think want you to have dinner on the table.

THERAPIST: For the family?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: I don't know, it's hard for me to tell. I mean I'll put something in the crock pot, but I mean

THERAPIST: I can't imagine, that sounds like it's way outside the bounds of nanny. I mean, I'm sure people demand all sorts of things at the same time, but my friends who have kids and have nanny's, they don't expect anything like that.

CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like, I don't want to feel like the third adult in the relationship. That's all. Because that's like, you know, it's kind of like -

THERAPIST: That's a higher paying job right there, if you are doing meal prep for them.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I'll make them a salad and they can bring home a rotisserie chicken, but I just don't want to have to be like responsible for like, cooking, not burning your house down, and getting your kid out alive.

THERAPIST: I mean you could make $20 an hour easy in many neighborhoods, whatever. Oh but you have to take the bus right?

CLIENT: I have to take the bus, that's why I'm looking at jobs in this particular area.

THERAPIST: You can get to a lot of places.

CLIENT: And like if the family has two cars, I feel like they should probably give me use of the car. Like, not like actually take it back to my house at night, but if they need me to take their kid to something . I mean I'm not really interested in being like, the nanny that drops you off at school and picks you up. Because I'm not really interested in older kids. But, if you know, if I'm taking care of your infant and like picking your kid up from day care, I'm fine with that. [00:07:23]

THERAPIST: I haven't heard of places asking for meal prep. I mean people asking for meal prep from the nanny. But I could be wrong, just from the fact -

CLIENT: I just feel like, a lot of parents want to you know, work and work and work, and maybe they shouldn't have kids.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you know you've talked about that sense that you have of parents wanting you to become, a kind of a, a supplemental parent for them. And you feel like,

CLIENT: I just feel like, I just don't want to be like, the kids main adult. Like I'm fine with being a nanny, but I don't want them to think that I'm a parent.

THERAPIST: Huh. What does that mean to you?

CLIENT: I think it would be great to have that bond with a kid, but I think it would be really hard on the parents, to know that, I'm with their kid more than they are. Because like, the parent's when the kids first started childcare, are like, Oh you are with my kid more than me, you see them more than I do, and they get really upset about that, you know?

THERAPIST: What's that like for you?

CLIENT: I just don't want them to think that, I don't want them to think that, I don't know, I mean, I know they feel guilty for leaving their kids at childcare, and I don't want them to be the same for a nanny. (inaudible due to crosstalking)

THERAPIST: It's hard for you when you see them feeling guilty. Oh yeah.

CLIENT: That picture. I noticed it, it's the picture, but I never noticed she's on the corner. It's lifted for me now. So I don't know, she's you know, I had this notion of it being like, you know, you get to stroll around with an infant, and it'll be great, we'll go to the bookstore. But I kind of feel like it's a lot of like hard work alone. So I don't know. [00:09:46]

THERAPIST: Alone?

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't want to be as isolated as some nanny's seem to be.

THERAPIST: What do you imagine it being like for you, to be alone and isolated?

CLIENT: I don't mind being alone, like I think I would, it would be like too much. Unless I figure out where to go for like music class, and where to go for like, a meet up in the park or something.

THERAPIST: Work alone. Yeah, that's an element of it though I imagine, that's a long time, just you, the two of you.

(pause from [00:10:39] to [00:11:17])

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause) It looks different in here.

THERAPIST: What do you think?

CLIENT: What happened to your couch?

THERAPIST: The couch didn't make it through the doorway.

CLIENT: So what, you put it on the curb?

THERAPIST: I took it to my home. It, they could not, they got it all the way up the stairs, and then,

CLIENT: They couldn't get it in the door?

THERAPIST: They couldn't get in the door. If you look, when you walk out you'll see where

CLIENT: The door's narrow.

THERAPIST: The door is narrow, it wasn't this door, it was the door into the place. They had a hell of a time, it took them about 20 minutes just to get it up the stairs, then they couldn't fit it in, and it took them another 20 to get down. So yeah, I forgot, I'll eventually get a new couch. That, that couch is gone.

CLIENT: It was a nice couch?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Does this one recline?

THERAPIST: You keep trying, (laughter) if it does then we are in trouble. (laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, so the couch is different, the place is different. How is it? What are you noticing? What do you notice about the new place? How do you feel about it?

CLIENT: I like it. I think it's more distance between you and me. It's like longer.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's more, there's definitely more space in here.

CLIENT: You take your wave3 home?

THERAPIST: I did, I did. Well, since it's obsolete now.

CLIENT: When are they publishing that DSM5? I mean I keep hearing like, they're adding this to it, and they're adding that too it, and they're taking this out, but I never heard when they are publishing it. They were supposed to do it like four years ago.

THERAPIST: Yes, I don't know if this is right, but I want to say I heard it was 2014 or 15 or something like that. [00:13:28]

CLIENT: That's a long time.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think it was supposed to be out by now, but there was, I think it's because there was a lot of controversy, a lot of debate about what, what would should be in, what shouldn't be in, how to structure it. That's a good question, I don't know. You know, that I don't even have the DSM4 on my bookshelf anymore.

CLIENT: That's because it was like torn apart. (giggles)

THERAPIST: I know, that thing had seen better days. (chuckles) That thing had been probably,

CLIENT: Probably got you for grad school.

THERAPIST: Yeah, oh definitely did, it probably was about 14 years old, 13 years old. Maybe, yeah, something like that. [00:14:23]

CLIENT: Phil tells me I can't be miserable anymore. Well, he didn't say it like that. But he said like, he feels pressure and anxiety when I come home miserable, because he feels more like, he's more pressured to find a job so that I can start over too, but if he finds a job in Boston then I'm still stuck. He doesn't want to have to rescue me from my terrible job. But he does, he wants me to be happy, so that's why I started looking at nanny positions.

THERAPIST: Almost because he started a, you were getting the sense that, he might have been saying it the right way, it's a lot, that you start to feel like it's a lot.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's a lot of, I mean, there's there, and then there's that I have the feeling that my son is going to trip. Or that like, my director is out for knee surgery, and then she had another surgery, because there was an emergency, I don't know, like she had an infection or something. And so, I mean, now my assistant director is in charge, and she's in, like a way better mood now that I guess she doesn't have to answer to Sandra or something. But, she just like, people are leaving. looking at other jobs. Nobody has convinced anybody that the place isn't going to close. Because everybody is saying how tight the budget is, and they've priced, I mean they don't do sibling discounts, and so one of my co-workers is going to go be a nanny for a family that left the center. Because at one point, the dad didn't have a job so he was staying home with them, and then mom had a baby. She was staying home with them, and it's less expensive to get a nanny than it is to put two kids in childcare. And you know full pay [00:16:36]

THERAPIST: How much does it run up, yeah.

CLIENT: For toddlers, infants and toddlers it's like $350 or $360 a week, and for preschool it's less. For preschool it's like, probably like $270 or something. Maybe less.

THERAPIST: And what are the hours?

CLIENT: We're open from 7:30 to 5:30. Which isn't a whole lot of hours for like a working family of you know, no 7:30-5:15, 5:30. Last pick up time is at 5:30.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So if you have two kids in there, it can run from $600-700 bucks a week.

CLIENT: Right and you can pay nanny's' $600 bucks a week.

THERAPIST: You could, well that would be like $15 if you were working 40 hours. That's tough though for a nanny with like two kids.

CLIENT: Yeah, but I mean, if they're, one's a baby, one is I guess, almost three, and then one's in school. So she'll be taking one to school, and then she'll be taking care of two kids. (pause)

THERAPIST: So you, so that provided the impetus, this conversation with Phil provided the impe what was he -

CLIENT: That and the conversation with Jessica. About her and her new job. I just feel like, you, they should be doing, we're not closed. If it, if it costs so much for them to put two kids, for a family to put two kids in care, that they have to poach teachers to be their nanny's, there's something wrong. But then again, if they lowered the rate, then we won't ever get raises, we won't ever have anything for the center. Something has to change and I think what's going to happen is, they are going to change some part of the structure in preschool. [00:18:55]

THERAPIST: How, what do you think?

CLIENT: They won't have upper preschool anymore. They won't have 5-yr old's anymore. They won't have a team 4. Which is like people who are waiting to get into kindergarten, and people who are waiting to get into K2. You know because there are so many other options in the neighborhood for the kids in preschool. There's public school, there's three or four catholic schools, I don't know, Head Start. So, they're going to have, I think they're going to have to make two mixed age group classrooms, or a you know, two, two team ones, or something, which is like 3-yr old's We'll see, I don't know. [00:19:56] I tired to have a talk with Lori about the way Stacen talks to me sometimes. And Lori was just sort of like the same way. She was like, well, you're coming in here and you're suggesting things that we've already tried, and it doesn't work. Like basically just shooting me down. And I don't really know, I was just like whatever, like. And then she's like, we're stuck with a schedule that doesn't work. And I was like, okay, well,

THERAPIST: Wait, what was that?

CLIENT: Because, well, I didn't know this, but until like last week, I thought I was going to be working there for awhile, or at least until I talk to Stephanie. But they are hiring somebody just sort of out of the blue. Stephanie didn't even ask me. And so I tried to talk to Lori about the schedule and about the way things are going in the classroom, and I was like, she was like completely rude to me. [00:20:49]

THERAPIST: What schedule were you, what -

CLIENT: Like the way, like the way they talk to me, the way I feel like I'm being set up to fail. The way I fee like, I mean I didn't tell her that, but the way I feel like the schedule isn't working for me, because, you know, I can't get the things done that you want me to get done in that amount of time. You know, like they want me to change the diapers when I come back from break, but I am the last one that comes back from break.

THERAPIST: Oh right. How the classroom schedule is set up. I see, yeah, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Right. And I was just shut down, and shut down, and I was about to cry. And like thank goodness a parent came in to the room because I would have started crying.

THERAPIST: Tell me about how, what was the interaction like, what would it -

CLIENT: Well, like, she was sitting in the chair, and I was sitting on the floor just like, and we were just talking. And I was like, I don't know, with Stacen, I don't what we were talking about, but I feel like it's a territory thing. Every time I try to make a suggestion, I get shot down, you know, and like, this, as soon as I walked into the I don't know, and then we had this thing, and I was just like whatever. Like, I'm not going to make any more suggestions now that I know this girl's going to be hired.

THERAPIST: Tell me how did she react when you said, so you started to talk about, Hey I see, this is what I feel, you make this point about -

CLIENT: She said, We tried it already, doesn't work.

THERAPIST: Tried what? [00:22:11]

CLIENT: What ever suggestion I make, they tell me they tried it already and it doesn't work. If you change diapers before lunch, you end up doing it again -

THERAPIST: Oh about the schedule, oh, oh, okay.

CLIENT: You know, but if you, but, and I'm like you know what and she's like but I have less time to change diapers than you. But if I'm like she just, you know, I try and make suggestions, I try and say things but they just want to keep shutting me down and telling me I'm wrong. I'm not going to keep making suggestions, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, when she, so, Lori is the other one in the classroom, you and Stacen. So what did she say about her being territorial, about Stacen being territorial?

CLIENT: She asked me what I meant, and I said, well any time I make suggestions I get shut down. And she as like, you're coming in here and making suggestions and you have to know that we've already tried it. And, I mean.

THERAPIST: Gee whiz. Wow. Wow.

CLIENT: I mean, I don't know what they think. These are different kids, I'm not Audrey. They actually are like in much better moods when the other one isn't there. I don't think they realize they make each other miserable, but they do. Because when Lori is not there, she's like, you know, Stacen's all like (makes happy sound). [00:23:36]

THERAPIST: How about that.

CLIENT: And when Stacen's not there, Lori's definitely happier.

THERAPIST: What's it like between them? What is they dynamic between them?

CLIENT: They only joke around with each other, but I think they bring each other down, they drive each other down.

THERAPIST: Do you have a sense of why that might be?

CLIENT: I don't know if it's a power struggle? Because they are both lead teacher certified, they've both been lead teachers. Stacen get's lead teacher pay but isn't actually, no, Lori get's lead teacher pay but isn't actually a lead teacher. Because she was a lead teacher when her place closed, so they relocated her, but didn't have a lead teacher position open. And then, all Lori does is, feed the babies and hold the babies and play with the babies. She frequently doesn't come sit on the, like toddler side of the classroom until it's time to put them to bed. [00:24:43]

THERAPIST: What do you think Stacen thinks of Lori, and vice versa?

CLIENT: I think they like each other. I think they just don't realize they bring each other down.

THERAPIST: Oh okay, I see.

CLIENT: Like, like frenemies.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so you bring this up, and, I mean what I hear is, you know, she shut you down, she didn't want to have any input, she didn't want to hear it.

CLIENT: I mean, like I said, I haven't made any suggestions since the new girl is coming, since that girl is coming, she's like, who are you talking about, I'm like, Patricia, Patricia? She was like, oh yeah, that all happened very fast from what I understand. But what I still don't understand is that somebody said, is that somebody asked one of the teachers in the classroom, what do you think, do you want Crystal in there, do you want her, you know, and I think they just don't like me. Like, I don't know what it is. [00:25:44]

Whatever, like, if they aren't going to address it with me, instead of just, like, I come into the classroom and like take somebody's hands to get washed, because breakfast is there, and they are like, Oh you should put up a, the chairs first. And I'm like, if the chairs need to be put out, why aren't you putting them out. Like when I worked at 7:30 in the other classroom, I had to make bleach, I had to do diapers, like make diaper notes, see who didn't like refill the diapers. I had to like, bleach the tables, put out chairs, put out puzzles, vacuum, like all sorts of things I had to do. I could never get it all done.

THERAPIST: Now, I got something to say about this, and it seems like it's related to what we were talking about last week in terms of, who you are, what kind of way you are with people, and how you can sometimes feel that, that your way might ruffle some feathers, so you end up trying to kind of, really be kinder and considerate, but you feel kind of awful, in like a, and like a shrinking violet then and don't feel good about it. It seems to me likes it's a same dynamic in that classroom. That you're in there and you are definitely having an impact on that place. Like you are having and impact on Lori and Stacen, you are the new kind of, you know, you're the stranger in the classroom to them. You have you're own ideas and your own kind of sense of what way a classroom should be run. And you know that it rubs them the wrong way. And so, and I think that is where you start to go, I don't know what the hell to do, because they are going to come after me. They're going to, and they are threatened by me. I don't want to make them feel threatened one, and two that it's going to create some antagonism. And it's if you are sort of saying, I don't know what the heck to do here. Because ultimately you want a classroom that functions well. And I think that what you find yourself feeling like, the only solution, or not the only solution, or the best solution is to kind of go, alright, I'll play it your way, but at a tremendous cost to yourself. [00:28:08]

CLIENT: I mean that's, that's basically what my bosses told me to do.

THERAPIST: That is something. That is not good for you. Not good for you. And listening, you know, you already see it, you know, you try to say something, you tried to say something this week to Lori, and you know, it must of been a lot of the same.

CLIENT: I'm sure Lori said something, and I know that they were whispering about something. And I said, are you guys whispering, and they were like, oh yeah we're allowed to whisper. And I'm like, whatever.

THERAPIST: And you know it had something to do about you bringing it up.

CLIENT: I know it had to do with me, because I know they were talking about how slow I am about doing diapers. But, if you want me to do them right, then I'm going to be slow, sorry. If you want me to wipe them every time, even w hen they don't have poopy diapers, its going to be slow, sorry. If you aren't going to help me wash their hands, it's going to be slow. [00:28:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah, so I want to hear about how you started to feel when you presented this to Lori and Lori kind of got all defensive and kind of go, well we tried that, we tried that, what, what -

CLIENT: I just was like, and she said, and then we're going to be stuck with a schedule that doesn't work, and you're going to be gone.

THERAPIST: What do you mean you're going to be gone?

CLIENT: They're hiring somebody for that classroom.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: And I just feel bad for the girl that is coming. You're going to put her in that situation too. Audrey needed a lot of direction and supervision. I feel like, whatever was set up in that classroom that allowed Audrey to fail, that, the set up hasn't changed. And I'm not Audrey, and I'm smart and I'm capable. But I still feel like I'm being set up to fail.

THERAPIST: You're on, because of the schedule, the ways the schedule works out.

CLIENT: Right, the schedule, like, Audrey's alone with all five toddlers running and biking after each other, and like, so I read to them, but they still like crawl over each other. But like between the time when like 9:30 when breakfast is and 10 after, until 10:00, I'm the only one sitting with the toddlers. Trying to peel them off furniture, get them not to chase each other.

THERAPIST: Where are those two.

CLIENT: Lori is doing diapers, or with the babies, and Stacen is cleaning up after breakfast.

THERAPIST: And you are sort of going, this isn't, this isn't right, this isn't working.

CLIENT: Right, and like, I don't know if Stacen cleans up breakfast slow on purpose, or if she's punishing me, or if, I know she has like a bad shoulder, so she can't lift certain things. I don't know, and like, I don't know if the chair thing is because she can't lift certain things, but I don't want to approach it with her and be like, you're being lazy, I just want to know like, why can't you put out the chairs before and it's going to be some reason like, Oh they're going to climb all over them, oh they're going to push them all over the place, and I'm going to trip over them, and I'm like,

THERAPIST: But you are kind of sensing BS.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Because what's the deal with the, what do you feel like is going on there, is there something about what you do that she doesn't want to do? [00:31:21]

CLIENT: I think so.

THERAPIST: What is it?

CLIENT: She doesn't want to be with the toddlers, after being with them from like 8:30-9:00 or something sitting with them.

THERAPIST: Oh. Like what, she wants a break or something.

CLIENT: I guess. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah. Yeah. But you're picking up on it. You're sort of (chuckles) seeing something, you're trying, you're getting at the real thing. The real thing that's going on.

CLIENT: I don't even know how to say, okay can that be something that's done before breakfast, like maybe at quarter til 9? And like, but I don't want to feel like I'm pushing into like her weaknesses or anything. Like, the faults of her classroom, because I feel like I'm picking up faults.

THERAPIST: What do you mean?

CLIENT: In her classroom, I don't know, I feel like, she says she has OCD and she's very like, so like I understand if she says she has OCD, why she would be telling me to do certain things a certain way. But her classroom is filthy. Filthy, like old projects hanging around, like onesies over here, just gross. Like, messy. And I wonder if she's like at the point if she really does have OCD, and somehow I doubt, because I'm sure she doesn't have a therapist or anything. She even tells me about the fact that I'm on medicine.

THERAPIST: You mentioned that last time, yeah.

CLIENT: I'm like, how else are we going to, get over like mental, like the stigma of mental illness and mental health, if we don't talk about it?

THERAPIST: And if she said that, because if you feel that if you were to press her on this, she'd feel like you were pressing off something, you would be hitting on some OCD -

CLIENT: I'm not trying to diagnose her with anything. I just think she's like stuck in her ways, and unwilling to change. I don't think she's OCD.

THERAPIST: What if you did go, what if you got, went after her faults a little bit, as you said, what, what is it?

CLIENT: She, she whines.

THERAPIST: She'd be even more

CLIENT: She kind of denies and denies and denies, oh no, no, no.

THERAPIST: Well there's your conflict again, you know. It's right there, you're like, do I say something and make her feel bad, or do I not say something and like feel like, frustrated and like I'm getting railroaded here. It's tricky. And what I gathered to is, that conversation with Lori, where you brought something up, where you said, listen, this is how I'm seeing stuff, and you knew it got under her skin. You said it got under her skin, it really affected you. Like you said you were on the verge of tears, it must have been very upsetting. [00:34:07]

CLIENT: Well yeah, because she just snapped back at me. I'm just trying to figure out like, why Stacen's rude to me, ever since I left the classroom for like 2 seconds, the classroom put up the toddler gate, and someone bit someone. And that was like, eight months ago. She's been rude to me ever since.

THERAPIST: When you were a floater?

CLIENT: Yeah, I bet, I guess I'm still a floater. But yeah. And she was, she wasn't even there, she was the one I was filling in for. And like, I had used her sweater or something, it was cold in the classroom. I had used her sweater and I hadn't put it back in the right place, and so she came, I had also used something else of hers. I thought she was cool with it, I didn't think she was like that. And she was like, she came to me and she was like, I don't want you using any of my stuff, don't touch my stuff, like, I couldn't find it, (inaudible sound). And so, you know, and she had cereal the other day, and she put her bowl in the sink, and I didn't touch her bowl. She told me not to touch her stuff, I'm not going to clean your bowl, sorry, nope. She was like, you could have put it on the bar, I was like, you told me not to touch your stuff. You know. And so, you know, I haven't touched her sweater, borrowed her shoes, whatever I did. [00:35:34]

But like, it's been less and less the way Stacen's been rude to me. And today she wasn't that rude to me, and I don't understand, how maybe it was deflected because there is this woman who is one of the sub's. She is terrible with toddlers, terrible. She tells them something once and then she yells at them and then grabs them and then puts them somewhere else. And then, she's also like, kind of whiny (voice goes high) Oh now, why would you say it to me? (voice back to normal) And I know she is just joking, but she's so grating. And so I don't know if maybe that was my norm, but I don't really understand why (pause)

THERAPIST: Why she's suddenly

CLIENT: Why she's suddenly nice to me. [00:36:27] Like, I, you could, you could have an arbor temp, who's fat and sits on her phone all day, you know. And like yells at the kids. Stacen yells at the kids all the time, practically the only time those kids get talked to is when they are in trouble. [00:36:54] (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, wow. I guess what's going through my mind is that, that, that moment where Lori said to you, snapped at you.

CLIENT: Whatever.

THERAPIST: What, what was that like for you?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't think she was trying to snap at me, that was just the way I interpreted it. And like, I hadn't been, I had stopped making suggestions once I realized that they were hiring somebody. But still, like, I feel, I kind of feel like they set this schedule up so that Audrey would fail. Instead of helping her. And like, she does all the physical labor, and her day is like, very packed, liked one after another, the day. You come in, you wash the kids up, you put out the chairs, well, you put out the chairs, you wash the kids up, you take them from the table you wash them up, you sit with them, you go into the playroom with them. You come back from playing with them, you wash them up. You know, you like, and then, and then, once they are asleep, you have to clean up lunch. And somehow, in the other classrooms, it doesn't feel that way from the other teachers. I mean like, I know that some of the other teachers don't want me to do diapers. I don't know if I've just gotten slow at it since I've gone temp, I mean not temp, but a sub, a floating substitute, or if they can just do it really fast. But like, they haven't asked me to, like I said I could do some of the observations over the curriculum, and they are like, oh you well you can just make some observations and write them down. But if I'm the only one in the, with the toddlers, I'm not going to go grab a pen and paper when they are like fighting with each other, pushing each other. I guess I'm just not as good at like, making activities with them, or thinking of things to do with them so that they don't kill each other. [00:39:23]

But, we have some kids right now that, some of them climb, and they climb up on the furniture. And other ones like push each other, and the other one's like love to get like, whiny reactions out of the other ones. The other one's love giving whiny reactions and they like totally egg each other on. (pause [00:39:42] til [00:40:00])

THERAPIST: Were you able to, what are you thinking.

CLIENT: I was thinking about, I used to think that that classroom was calm compared to the other two. Because the other two have these twins, like one twin in one room, one twin in the other room, and they are just wild. And then, one of the rooms have this kid who is like, kind of spectrum A. (pause) These windows are kind of drafty.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, and so he, but he's gone now. So I don't know, I think that their classroom could be the calm classroom. But I'm not, my strengths aren't being played to, and Lori keeps saying, oh I'm going to make play-doh, I'm going to play with them, and she never makes play-doh. Like I told her I would make play-doh, like if you aren't going to do it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Something in their attitude as just left you feeling like they just want you out. Just want you out of there. [00:41:05]

CLIENT: They just want somebody who's going to go along with whatever they say. Somebody stupid enough to go along with whatever they say, and that was Audrey. You're not going to get another Audrey. You don't want another Audrey because the other Audrey, because I'm sure Audrey did something terrible to a kid, like, that's why she got fired, but.

THERAPIST: Wow, yeah. I get the, you know, I was just thinking about, how much, how there's been a lot you know, in your life around, you know, this, this that you've gotten a hard time from people. You know, in various, various moments in your life, from a group of people, where, where, I get the sense that there was some sort of, there was some sort of, yeah. That there was some sort of, there have been times in your life when there's been a kind of confrontation between how you see the world and how you, you know you feel about things and other people and how they see the world and view things. Like last week you were talking about how you like to, you know, come up with answers, or be the one who knew things, or raise your hand a lot And that that clashed in some way with how, you know, what other people were like or what they want.[00:42:28]

And then you end up feeling I think, like they just want you to be quiet or just, you know, change in to something else. And, and I feel like that, what you've been saying is like, when you get that feeling is that you end up feeling very, like it's easy to withdraw and feel like I don't know what the heck to do in these situations. I feel like people just want me shut up, or leave, or go along with the plan. And it's been hard for you to go, okay, when people are, or don't like what I'm doing or the way I'm coming across, they are just telling me I just need to go along with it as opposed to finding some way, some way to kind of negotiate differences between each other. It's kind of like with Stacen and Lori, it's what they are sort of saying, we just want you to be Audrey. And you are saying, I'm not Audrey. I don't want to go by the schedule that you've given me. Or that's not who I am, that's not how I work. I work differently. I want to be heard. But then you get that kind of clash, it's like, we don't care. It's almost like you get this from then, we don't care we just want you to do it our way. And you end up with this terrible, I think feeling about yourself like you are an agitator. Like you are going in there and stirring things up and causing all this, turmoil. I think it's a very complicated situation. I think what's important about what you did this week, is you kind of, you (inaudible) Lori a bit. You know, you, you kind of went into that area of yourself, where you were like, okay, I know it's going to make her a little uncomfortable. And it was hard on you, because you felt a lot when she snapped at you. [00:44:11]

CLIENT: Yeah I mean like, I felt that, I feel that way all the time, like people just want me to shut up.

THERAPIST: People just want you to shut up.

CLIENT: And like, (pause)

THERAPIST: And it sounds,

CLIENT: And I felt that way since 4th grade. Ever since I switched schools, like, and for the first time (pause) I don't know. People are like, I've always seen the world a lot differently than other people. I think I'm pretty good at seeing like, the big picture things, or looking at it from a different perspective. But I think, (pause) nobody cares.

THERAPIST: Well it was kind of like, it reminds me of like, where, we were, I don't know if we were talking about it or if I was just thinking about it. But I was thinking about like, women who have a strong view point or personality, that it's a difficult,

CLIENT: It's like the Hilary Clinton syndrome.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I was just thinking Hilary Clinton.

CLIENT: Yeah, like people, they call you unlikable, because you are a strong woman. [00:45:27]

THERAPIST: Yes, you have a view point, you are smart, you've got something to say. (chuckle) Yeah. And it's all, and what you struggle with is that you are not like Hilary, in the sense of, there's almost a way that, and I don't know if this is true or not, but there is almost a way of like people feeling or think that she doesn't care what you think anyway. But you do, you want to have a connection. But you still want to have a strong, be a person with a strong with a strong you know, a strong perspective. It's not like you just go, I don't care what they think. I'm going to say what the hell I'm going to say and I don't care.

CLIENT: Well yeah. I think Hilary Clinton, like, she has an agenda, but she does, she does want to like hear people. But like, I think she still has a preset plan for like the way things are supposed to end up. But like my opinion, I want to hear what other people think so we can come to some sort of compromise. I don't have a preset plan on the way things should work, I just think they should be different. [00:46:40]

I think sometimes I am unlikeable. And like, I really there's a lot of things I don't really like about myself. And so, you know, like

THERAPIST: What's some of the ways you think you are unlikeable?

CLIENT: I mean like, I mean I don't like my body at all. And, you don't like that I can't stick up for myself. And like, that I can't get it together enough to like cook Phil dinner. And like, how am I going to become a parent if I can't come home and like make a meal. (pause)

THERAPIST: You know, just one thing that I'm thinking about Crystal, is that, I think you, I think you having to do a lot of compromising in yourself in these situations to raise the hell out of you.

CLIENT: (crying) Yeah. That's why I want to be a nanny, that way I won't have to compromise with anybody.

THERAPIST: I think that it really zaps a lot of your strength.

CLIENT: I think that if I could just be a nanny to one kid, I could do tummy time when I think he needs tummy time or wants tummy time. I could go on a walk when I think it's appropriate, I wouldn't have to like try to convince somebody to like take the kids to the playground. I mean, I have to like, like, Stacen, I mean she hates the playground or something. I had to go and like talk to Stephanie, we never, go to the playground. And, like when I finally convinced them to go to the playground, oh I haven't been out here in so long, I didn't know we had this. And I would tell Stephanie that and she was like, oh come on, I know they've been out there since then. I'm like, no, they go on walks, they have to hold the stroller, why do you think these kids climb, they never see the playground. Why do you think they jump up on the tables? They never get a chance to you know, climb up the slide or the stairs or whatever. [00:48:53]

How is it not obvious to you that these kids are climbing on furniture, because they never have the opportunity, well, I mean, not climb a tree because they are two, but you know, climb up on top of a climbing structure, or scramble up a rock, or you know, try and jump off the tree stump or something. You know, and like Lori is all into that, she like printed out an article about kids, how they are making these new playgrounds for kids that are like nature centric and have like rocks and trees and gardens. But like, she squeezes babies all day and like plays with the babies and then doesn't take the kids outside.[00:49:40]

THERAPIST: Doesn't take the kids outside. Yeah.

CLIENT: But she goes camping in like the middle of the winter, like,

THERAPIST: Really? And then she

CLIENT: And like she goes camping, and like, I don't get it. Like I understand you think the playground is lame, but it's not lame for 2-yr old's

(chuckle)

CLIENT: Sure, your 40, of course it's lame. She's single by the way, Stacen. I told her you're cute.

THERAPIST: Oh you're going to set me and Stacen up, okay.

CLIENT: (laughter)

THERAPIST: Sounds like my kind of gal you know. (chuckle)

CLIENT: She lives with her mother. (chuckle)

THERAPIST: Perfect. Perfect. I know we've got to stop in a second, but I think, I think, you know, the whole standing up for yourself is such a, is I think is something that we really need to help you with. Because I think that is probably, I mean I do think it is really quite draining on you, and quite demoralizing. It's emotionally, it's emotionally, I bet it's physical too. I think there is a certain energy you have when you are standing up for yourself, that you feel, that you feel about yourself. I was just thinking back to that whole confrontation with the landlord that you had, and that you stuck up for yourself. You were not drained by it. [00:51:04] I mean it was like

CLIENT: And that thing with that girl from my high school who had like, borderline personality disorder, and I finally said, so I can't be your friend anymore. It was very empowering.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this is

CLIENT: She asked me for $20 the next day and I was like, no. Go away.

THERAPIST: Yeah, well so we are on for Tuesday.

CLIENT: Tuesday, yes.

THERAPIST: [inaudible]

CLIENT: [inaudible].

THERAPIST: [inaudible].

CLIENT: [inaudible], without, without, without the pull and spring bottle on top, it's like flat and it brings the bottle in, it filters the water there, it heats the water there, so you can make yourself hot tea.

THERAPIST: Oh, so it comes from the

CLIENT: It's like flat, it's like flat on top, so they pump the water in, and it filters it like right there instead of just releasing like the filtered water through gravity like a pull and spring bottle.

THERAPIST: So it actually runs through the water line of the apartment?

END TRANSCRIPT

1
Abstract / Summary: Client has been mulling over the possibility of applying for nanny positions.
Field of Interest: Counseling & Therapy
Publisher: Alexander Street Press
Content Type: Session transcript
Format: Text
Original Publication Date: 2013
Page Count: 1
Page Range: 1-1
Publication Year: 2013
Publisher: Alexander Street
Place Published / Released: Alexandria, VA
Subject: Counseling & Therapy; Psychology & Counseling; Health Sciences; Theoretical Approaches to Counseling; Psychological issues; Work; Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento; Social perception; Interpersonal relations; Conflict; Occupational adjustment; Psychoanalytic Psychology; Self Psychology; Psychotherapy; Relational psychoanalysis
Clinician: Anonymous
Keywords and Translated Subjects: Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento
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