TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I'm tired

THERAPIST: Tired, eh?

CLIENT: My mom went up to the house last night to meet with some insurance guy to see how much it would cost to have liability insurance on it. Two or three of her neighbors have cancer and I guess she hasn't heard back from the guy yet, of course. But there is that and then there's... [00:01:08]

THERAPIST: Sorry liability insurance?

CLIENT: My mom rents the house and she hasn't had liability insurance on it. She needs liability insurance to rent, as in somebody slips on the stairs and cracks their head. She's looking into it to see how much that is. It's said to be very expensive. If it's too expensive, my mom will have to sell the house. [00:02:00]

THERAPIST: And the neighbors with cancer?

CLIENT: Just old friends. Two have the same kind of cancer. I don't know if they're brother and sister or not. I'm not sure. I always forget how old my [teachers] (ph?) were. One has pneumonia and is in a lot of pain. I don't know if I told you about number three, but I have a third catering contact at the hotel because the first two have quit.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you told me about that. [00:03:00]

CLIENT: Because I'm a big, old bridezilla.

THERAPIST: You were the one that ran them off?

CLIENT: Right. I was the straw that broke them. So we have number three and number three says that I can't have a second cake tasting; but I don't remember the flavors of the cake really, so I'm supposed to like make it up, I guess.

THERAPIST: You didn't settle on one at the time?

CLIENT: No. I'm so full it was like I needed to come back for a cake tasting; and the one was like, "Oh, fine. Whatever." [00:03:35]

THERAPIST: She said that you could come back for another one?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What does it cost them to do a cake tasting?

CLIENT: Apparently it's very labor-intensive to make small cakes. I get it that they could be putting their efforts into making food for 100 or 180 guests or whatever. [00:04:16]

THERAPIST: Was there a link between the house and the cancer, or you just sort of rattled...?

CLIENT: The house is where the neighbors have cancer the neighbors there.

THERAPIST: That's just a separate thing that's been on your mind or are you sort of just switching...?

CLIENT: No, I got an e-mail from my mom about going to the house and about getting liability insurance and she visited some friends. The husband has pneumonia and the wife has cancer; and the other neighbor has the same kind of cancer, who I've been to their house. The insurance person will make suggestions as to what would have to be changed in the house and, if it's too expensive, then I think my mom would have to sell because my mom and her sister own it together. It used to be the three sisters that owned it together. Aunt Marla wanted to be bought out, so they bought her out. Now, with all the insurance stuff and Meredith wanting to be bought out, my mom can't afford to keep it. [00:05:53]

THERAPIST: Is it paid for?

CLIENT: Yes, it's paid for.

THERAPIST: They just pay insurance and taxes?

CLIENT: Yeah. Insurance, taxes and general upkeep. But the taxes for non-residents, not full-time residents, are astronomical.

THERAPIST: And they don't make their money back from renting it or anything? Did they ever rent it out?

CLIENT: Yeah, they do. They rent it out between the end of May and the middle of October. I think my mom charges like $1,800 or $2,000 a week, and she still can't make it back. [00:06:39]

THERAPIST: Really? Wow.

CLIENT: Maybe it's not paid off.

THERAPIST: Taxes can't be that much.

CLIENT: Taxes are a lot and then there's some company, which is like the cooperative of all the different people that live on the colony. They pay people to upkeep the lawns and the shrubs.

THERAPIST: You've got to pay into it.

CLIENT: It's like condo fees, essentially. [00:07:15]

THERAPIST: What does that mean to you that she'd sell it?

CLIENT: It's just hard for me that she's selling it this year because I know that it's a money issue and I feel guilty that it's because she's paying for my riding (ph?).

THERAPIST: Does it ever come across from her that way, even unconsciously or something?

CLIENT: She told me that with paying for the apartment in Virginia there is renting the apartment in Virginia...

THERAPIST: That's for whom?

CLIENT: That's for their own use, my parents' own use; then Anna's mortgage they put a down-payment on Anna's condo and my wedding. I don't even know other things. There is a problem with the chimney that's not me. She can't afford to buy Meredith out. The place is worth probably like $4 500,000 if not more, given the property that it's on. [00:08:36]

THERAPIST: So it sounds like, too, now is the time that she'd have to pony up to pay off Meredith because Meredith wants to sell.

CLIENT: Because Meredith is tired of putting money into it. Meredith never goes down. Meredith and Marla were never really as comfortable there as my mom. It's a [fairly lily-white, homogenous] (ph?) kind of place, but it's so wonderful that it's there and you don't have to vacation in a hotel room or a time share or Sandals Beach Resort. [00:09:22]

THERAPIST: How many years have you guys been going down there?

CLIENT: My mom has been going there since she was a baby.

THERAPIST: And you did as a family?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Every year?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh, wow. [00:09:38]

CLIENT: It's like a four-hour drive from Virginia, maybe five if my mom is driving.

THERAPIST: Two hours for you or something like that?

CLIENT: Yeah. Nobody lets me drive. Nobody likes my driving.

THERAPIST: No, I mean for you from here.

CLIENT: Oh, from here? I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about my driving, my lead foot. Yeah, two hours down the interstate. It's about 90 down that road. It ends right there.

THERAPIST: Which one?

CLIENT: 80-something.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You go through the turnpike West, then South?

CLIENT: I've only done it once or twice because I usually take the train and my parents will pick me up.

THERAPIST: You just take Amtrak down? From here?

CLIENT: yeah.

THERAPIST: Because it's right on the shore and the Amtrak goes all the way to the city. (pause) [00:11:28]

CLIENT: There is that and there are all my money concerns.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What about that?

CLIENT: I feel extra poor. (pause) Phil is claiming less income on his taxes than I am.

THERAPIST: He's claiming less taxes? You mean he made less? [00:12:21]

CLIENT: He made less money than I did, like $4,000 less than I did; and I made like $20,000. I don't understand how people do it. If I didn't have my trust I probably would have had to move back with my parents or Phil and I would be living in a shack.

THERAPIST: You wouldn't be able to do it. You'd have roommates or do something. Yeah, it's not sustainable. I mean, it is. You could live like this until the trust runs out.

CLIENT: Phil is taking from his savings and told his parents that if he doesn't have a job soon, he'll have to borrow money from them. He already borrowed money from them for grad school for his last semester at school. (pause) That's it. [00:14:32]

THERAPIST: That's it.

CLIENT: Kat drives me crazy. Jessica put in her two-week's notice and that makes one teacher from every classroom leaving since October. [...] (inaudible at 00:14:47) (pause)

THERAPIST: How are you feeling about being here today?

CLIENT: I wonder if I can afford to keep paying you. I'm pretty sure [inaudible]. (pause) I'm looking forward to deducting from my checks all the out-of-pocket expenses I've paid you, though. I've been looking for all the sheets and I definitely don't have them all. I don't know if my checking account got hacked or something, but the last time I tried to open it on the Internet they couldn't perform that command or something on my checking account. I need to look into that because I heard that something happened with Bank of America. [00:16:11]

THERAPIST: Yeah, but you're feeling like you're not sure about being able to pay for this. What do you...?

CLIENT: It's great that we're able to do the recording and only have me pay $60 a week, but I don't know if instead spending $50 a week on a date with Phil would be just as helpful to me.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I just really hope he gets this job. I really think he will, but... the Center for Transportation Planning. It's near the Meeting House, so it's near [...] (inaudible at 00:17:21). They're interested in him for something land use policy or something like that. [00:17:39]

THERAPIST: Do you feel like you're looking for something in me that has been problematic, tricky or wanting more?

CLIENT: No. It's actually so much easier to get here than to your other place. You're really good at what you do. I just I don't know. I don't think that you're overpriced at all.

THERAPIST: No, I don't sense that part of it. I guess one thing I was wondering is that I've just noticed that lately our conversations have been a little bit I don't know if you've noticed the change at all but it just seems to me like... [00:18:51]

CLIENT: Shallow?

THERAPIST: There' something about Yeah, maybe shallow. I don't know if I'd call it shallow versus deep, but something just feels a little bit flat right now. That might be the word.

CLIENT: I feel flat. I don't know. I just feel like I mean, yeah. There are days I don't want to schlep out here and all I want to do is just go home, but I feel like this is an obligation I have to myself to do this.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Do you have a sense of what you're kind of hoping for out of it or from it lately even if it's not that clear? [00:19:55]

CLIENT: No, because I guess I just wish you could tell me what to do with my life; and I know you're not that kind of therapist.

THERAPIST: Well, maybe there's something to this. "What to do with your life." Can you think of anything specifically that you go, "Oh, God. I could really use..."

CLIENT: Like "You need to quit that job." I don't know. You're very intuitive and understand me very well, but I'm not always motivated by you.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, I don't do that. I don't do motivation kind of stuff. Right. And you feel like you need some of that to you want to quit that job? [00:20:58]

CLIENT: Yeah. Or clean my dresser. Something like that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Clean your dresser. Have you get on the stick or something like that. Get yourself going somewhere. Or hold you accountable or something like that?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I'm held accountable when I'm in a shopping line at Shaw's and you call me. That's happened more than once. I don't mean like that.

THERAPIST: No, more that you're talking about your life. I guess what I'm sensing is that you feel in some way that you need to be doing more. You're having a hell of a time trying to find it within yourself to do it and are looking for something to make a change happen. (chuckles) You don't car e where it comes from. If it comes from me great. [00:22:03]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I feel like I have so many things that are out of my control that even the ones that I should be able to control like my mess, my week, the wedding plans. But I control so much in the classroom every day and clean up and look after everybody that it's so hard for me to do. I'm like, "I don't want to." [00:23:09]

THERAPIST: You're just kind of spent and it's hard to put yourself into a lot more after that, huh?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: I was thinking, too, that that's the same issue with the job, I think, where you have to do all this legwork and background stuff. I guess some way that I was thinking about your idea of me not being motivating enough in some way is behind that's the sense of I need somebody to find something within you that can click on and go an emotional booster in the sense that maybe it's not just fatigue you're grappling with, but also something that you need from the outside to get you out of this, to clean up, to eat the way you want to eat or all that stuff, get out of that job. What would it take for you to leave that job? What can I do? [00:24:38]

CLIENT: I need a really good job offer with health benefits and I find it's just so hard for me to sit down and focus and find a job, that it would require leaving. I'm just trying to wait and wait until I get into Margaret and Florence's room. Jessica gave her two-weeks yesterday and I feel like I'm going to be stuck there longer. I don't know what Stephanie is doing, but she kept trying to hire part-time, kept trying to hire part-time. We finally had a newbie for a part-time girl, but we have three full-time positions open now or is it two? My position, Chrissie's position, Jessica's position. [...] (inaudible at 00:25:48) (pause) [00:26:12]

THERAPIST: What are you thinking?

CLIENT: I was thinking about what Jessica said about her co-workers. Why she told her she was leaving it was mean. She has a colonoscopy bag. We were talking about how she nearly shit her instead of shitting her pants, she shits her bag. It's really bad. I do not want to work with that woman either.

THERAPIST: What did happen with all the stuff you were pursuing with nannying?

CLIENT: I have a care.com profile. I figured it out. They want you to spend $8 on your own background check and then you can furnish it to potential employees. I think a lot of the families want people who have nannied before and they want somebody who is going to clean the house and do the laundry and cook the dinner. I'm like, "I'll feed your kids and I'll do your kid's laundry and I'll make him pick up his toys, but I'm not taking your husband's shirts to the dry cleaner." I'm not also your personal assistant. [00:27:42]

THERAPIST: One thing I notice when you start thinking about possible work is that, inevitably, one of the thoughts that immediately comes to mind is that they're not really going to want you. That's the first thing and I think it almost shuts down you keeping going forward in some way. There is the automatic sense of "I'm not going to be right for whatever they're looking for. They're going to be asking too much from me." Or "I'm not going to have the experience they need," or something. That's immediately what you associate when you get thinking about things. Does that make sense? [00:28:33]

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And I think in a way you know, you're talking about being motivated, I think that must just drain you.

CLIENT: Yeah. The negative thinking drains me and then the job drains me.

THERAPIST: Then the job drains you. I think, to your point about that job, even if Phil got the gig here, for instance, and you stayed here, it's going to be hard to move from there, the way it's set up now.

CLIENT: That's what Jessica said. Jessica said, "If you find another job, just take it." There's no way to move up. There are no raises. There are hardly any benefits not physical, like health benefits but there are no emotional benefits. [00:29:50]

THERAPIST: There are no emotional benefits. There's no chance for growth, either professionally or even intellectually, emotionally, occupationally. It's going to lull you right to sleep, or it seems to. It drains you and then you're done for the day. You feel drained and wiped out. (pause) What are you thinking?

CLIENT: I'm thinking about how I would arrange the classroom if somebody just let me do it myself the classroom I'm working in right now. [00:31:03]

THERAPIST: What were you thinking?

CLIENT: Right now, it's just one big, open square and kids just crawl around and take things off the shelves and hardly do anything with them. Today I was trying to clean up and a kid was crawling around behind me and taking things off the shelves. Granted, she's under one. Unless your parents pick you up at 5:15 exactly, how else am I supposed to clean unless I pick both of you up, neither of whom walk, and give you to the [Catholic nun] (ph?). The infant is in a red shirt that says "Little Devil" and it has horns on it, like on his hoodie. It's super cute, but I was about to do it, too. I'm like, "Here," but then her dad walked in the hall. Then I had to clean up the classroom. There was stuff everywhere. If the teacher leaves at 4:30 and helps clean up, what am I supposed to do with them for 45 minutes? There are six of them. It's just the worst part of the day, between 4:30 and 5:15. You're just waiting for parents to show up. [00:32:33]

THERAPIST: You're thinking about setting up the class a certain way?

CLIENT: The classroom. Because right now it's just one big, open square with some shelves around the corner. We have gates and stuff, but we need a corner where they can go and be alone and we need a book area and a block area and we need a dramatic play area. That's just what I was thinking about. (pause) [00:33:19]

THERAPIST: Is there some sort of obstacle...?

CLIENT: Kat doesn't like anything if it's not her idea. I made some really awesome ball shakers a long time ago. I came in one day and I was like, "I made these so nice. I'm so glad you guys still have them," because I had made them one night before I left the classroom. And the next week, they were gone. She tried to make other, new ones, but they were sucky. And they are sucky. And there are three of them, so the kids fight over them; instead of there being eight of them so the kids don't fight over them. [00:33:57]

THERAPIST: That's what you made? You made eight of them?

CLIENT: I made like eight or nine of them.

THERAPIST: And now they're just gone.

CLIENT: And now they're just gone after I commented on how proud I was of them.

THERAPIST: Did you ask her about it?

CLIENT: No. I asked Tracy (ph?) about them and Tracy said, "Oh, she said the kids put them in their mouths, so she threw them away."

THERAPIST: Kat did?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Wow. I mean, here, again, is another thing about this work. You found it very, very challenging to respond to this kind of you know. What you're really detecting is the competitiveness from various people in terms of the classroom. It's stymied your ability to really leave your mark and do something that you feel reflects the way you want to conduct business. I think that's probably draining, too. I think that's probably draining or it sure as hell can't be... I was just thinking how much of a downer it would be for something like you made these things that you're excited about and you find out Kat trashes them. What is that going to do to the way you feel? (chuckles) [00:35:20]

CLIENT: One had rice, one had baby oil and water with some color in it or something, one had a feather in it, one had water and glitter a whole bunch of them. They were really cool. They were all the same-sized bottles. They were miniature Diet Pepsi bottles so they could hold them. They were the right size for the kids to hold. Now she has them in 20 oz. bottles.

THERAPIST: They can't hold the damned things.

CLIENT: They can't hold them and there are only three of them. Something that big is going to end up being used as a baseball bat. The water bottles nowadays are much thinner than they used to be, so the little round pods that water used to come in, apple pods for little kids, those don't work anymore. Now you have to convince somebody to drink like ten, small Diet Pepsi's if I want to make another one. She wants to know. She was like, "Oh, remember those shakers you made? I want to make some more of those." I'm like, "But you threw them away." [00:36:48]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. What I also note is that I think you don't know what you're supposed to do in these situations.

CLIENT: Right. Am I supposed to call her out for throwing them away? Am I supposed to make her find some more bottles? Ideally, we would make the curriculum out of it or a project out of it. I hot-glued the lids shut. They didn't leak. They were really good.

THERAPIST: What if you did try to find a way to really talk with her about what you see? Keeping in mind also that she's a sensitive person, that she feels easily-criticized and shamed and all of that, but really bringing up these issues that you do feel are there. Not being insensitive to her own insecurities, but figuring out a way. [00:37:52]

CLIENT: I wouldn't even know where to begin. I feel like she does a lot of things that are inappropriate. I don't know if she thinks they're appropriate and tries to do them to be helpful if or if she just shits around because she likes to have free time. We're doing this accreditation right now and she goes out of the classroom and prints things in bold, diagonal font and prints out clip-art pictures. I found out a couple of months ago, actually a year ago, that the reason her computer takes so long is because she tries to load Publisher instead of using clip-art and Word. [00:38:54] She'll do all these things that are not what she is actually asking; and it's unclear whether she's just ignorant to it or she's just taking shortcuts or taking long-cuts to go and be out of the classroom so that she doesn't have to help out. Whenever I suggest going on a walk, she says, "I'll stay here with some babies," or "I'll stay here and clean the classroom." Like, yes, I recognize that you have arthritis and it's foggy out so you're probably in pain which I think is just bullshit, but I don't know. Everybody talks about it, so whatever. [00:39:49] Why do you never do anything? And when you do things, they're like preschool things like the kid has to glue the teeny-tiny candy cane which you cut out on to a certain part of your gingerbread house. If you ever have kids and you pick up your kid from child care and it looks like a six-year-old did it, it's not his art. His art is putting paint on his hands and letting him smear it wherever he wants to or giving him a piece of chalk and seeing what happens. [00:40:31]

THERAPIST: And I sense that you see these things and I was thinking that you find yourself kind of, as you're saying, not knowing even where to begin. I think it must be taxing on you to just swallow it.

CLIENT: Yeah. But what else am I supposed to do? I said to her, "I'm prepared to do that now. I can handle it. I can go." And she had me hold a baby, finish the bottle, she changed the diaper, and then she left to go do the accreditation stuff instead of having me go do it when I said I was going to do it. She manipulated the situation so that I would be holding the baby, feeding the bottle so that she could go out and do it. [00:41:29]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. She's running all these games and stuff.

CLIENT: She's had so many people work in her classroom and she's always been a problem and they haven't done anything about it. They haven't fired her. Today Tracy's car got towed from the parking lot because she didn't have a sticker on her car. Her car wasn't registered in there properly, even though she's been parking there for a year and a half. Somebody told a Sister or whoever, that that car had been there all night. But the only person that spoke to her in the parking lot was Kat. Kat claimed she said, "That car looks familiar, but..." And then she didn't say anything to Tracy and when Tracy got in the classroom "Did she say this, ‘That car has been here all night?'" [00:42:34] "I really won't say who said the car had been there all night. Tracy's coat was in the car. Her wallet was home because she didn't want to spend any money today, so she had to walk home in the cold to go get her wallet to go walk to the toll place. She's already in and talks to HR and they're like, "We announced it on the loudspeaker." I'm sorry, we were doing our jobs tending to children and reading a book. That's discriminatory. We can't hear all of those announcements. I think if it's any louder, they're going to wake our kids up at naptime. I heard an announcement, but when I heard them say the license plate number, I didn't worry about it because I thought Tracy's car was registered. [00:43:30]

THERAPIST: Here's what I want to say about all of this. I know we've got to stop in a second. What I want to just point out to you is that you've become much more animated when we started talking about how frustrated you feel. I think some of the fatigue you're feeling is, in some way, your own need to kind of turn yourself off from all of this frustration in order to deal with the situation at work. I think you kind of have to put yourself to sleep in some way, make yourself kind of tired. By the way, I think that's how a lot of people handle those mindless jobs where there are constant frustrations. I mean, look at the people who work at McDonalds. They look like they've been watching paint dry all day. Why do they do it? I think it has something to do with it's because there is a frustration and the only way you can handle all of that is to kind of cut yourself off in some way (chuckles) just make yourself fall asleep. [00:44:40]

I think that's what's happening here. And I think yeah, it's tough to know what the hell to do. What I do know is that your frustration there is there for a good, damned reason because there are things wrong there. There are things that are really upsetting and frustrating about that place. And in some way let's face it your frustration isn't because you want to give Kat a hard time or you're some difficult person, it has a lot to do with the fact that (sniggers) you want to do the work you want to do, that you've been trained to do. You want to be able to have a say in the classroom. You want the place to run a certain way that you can respect your own work and respect the service you're providing these kids. It's not because you're wanting to be a hard-ass. It's an important question. Where do you begin? What do you do about this? I guess it's the kind of thing we've been trying to figure out together and it's a hard one to ask, but one thing I do think is that you've got to find a way. If you're going to be there, you've got to find a way to find a voice there to find some way to put that feeling you have into action or you're going to fall right back to sleep. Do you know what I mean? [00:46:13]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, that's why I've been waiting to work in Margaret and Florence's room because they give me a voice. They listen and they're very smart and they enjoy having me there and they tell me that. Nobody else tells me that; like, "We had a great day today. Thank you. We're so glad that you're here." Why is it only one person tells me that on a consistent basis and it's Florence Wright? (sp?) Yes, she's amazing and she reminds me of my mom except that she's way more loud-mouthed than my mom. She tells me what to do and I listen, but at least I agree with her. It's not like, "Swallow, kid, and leave it alone." [00:47:14]

THERAPIST: Yeah, you've got to at least respect the direction you head in. Well, let's keep talking about it. I think we've got to keep you kind of awake and alive there. (chuckles) Figure out some way or figure out some way of talking about how the hell are you going to leave that place? Because, you're right you've been stuck there. You can't be there in the way it's set up now or you're going to feel that this is the cost it has, loss of energy. Sometimes work helps people feel kind of more alive and more energized.

CLIENT: I did when I started there.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You've got somebody you've got to fall asleep to because that's the only way you can get along. I'm not saying to duck this issue with Kat. It's tough.

CLIENT: I think she needs therapy. Honestly.

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