TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Oh, I have a bill for you. So I didn't get anything from you for last month.

CLIENT: Correct.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Let me see. I may not have a better idea on... (pause) Looks like the 11th when I could pay you. Credit card bill is due then. I'll try and get you something.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah. Where are you with stuff? In terms of money and...

CLIENT: Okay, well, I just paid the monthly rent, I'll probably have about $400 left over to divide between utilities, credit card bills and your payment.

THERAPIST: Hmm, okay.

CLIENT: And then next month I'll get that money from October insofar as anticipated.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah. (pause) Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: That's what you get for taking VIP clients; they'll just shaft you! [00:01:30]

THERAPIST: (chuckles) (inaudible) Yeah, what were you, what, in terms of the bill, what were you... You know, I'm sure you knew it was coming and everything. What, where did your... You know, how were you planning on...?

CLIENT: My plans...Uh...

THERAPIST: Yeah, dealing with them, and...

CLIENT: I didn't expect the next one this soon, but I guess it was sort of on the back burner. (therapist acknowledges) So... (pause) Yeah, it's kind of going to be difficult for me to pay in full on time.

(pause 00:02:21 to 00:02:51)

THERAPIST: Yeah, if you have any ideas of how you want to handle it, or how you're thinking about paying on it...

CLIENT: Um... Yeah, I mean, I think I could probably get you $60 for next time. And that's an effort. Otherwise, it's part and parcel of the larger problem of landing a job. (therapist affirms)

(pause 00:03:28 to 00:03:43)

But I mean, if you want to draw a line in the sand somewhere, you're welcome to.

THERAPIST: Um, (sighs) draw a line in the sand... No, I guess I'm more, at this point in terms of the, you know, money is, it's something; it's not an insignificant amount. I guess I was... And, yeah, there is part, of course I want to make sure that I'm paid, but I'm also just kind of wanting to know what's your... You know, what your thinking is around it and, you know, if there is, and what, and how you're planning on thinking about it. I mean, how you are you working it out, are you planning on paying it, that kind of thing.

CLIENT: (laughs) You're not terribly direct! (chuckles) I don't think. I'm thinking about paying it. I mean, I... [00:04:35]

THERAPIST: Or, you know, where your thoughts were about it, how you thought about... You know, I mean, I'm sure you knew you were getting caught in the balance (ph) and what you thought and how much (inaudible/blocked at 00:04:45).

CLIENT: Yeah, I anticipated... right, I anticipated being a little late, but that's about as much thought as I gave to it. I'm not someone who owes money to other people. I mean I don't, I repay what I owe. But I was anticipating I could, I, not be able to pay in a timely fashion. Yeah. So I mean, borrowing money from my parents isn't an option, and um, I mean taking money from them. So, I mean, I've been living month to month for several months. (therapist affirms) So, in that sort of situation, I guess you don't plan too rigidly.

(pause 00:05:55 to 00:06:36)

THERAPIST: Well, one thing I was thinking is if you felt, did you feel... Would you feel comfortable if you ran a balance? You know, if you, if there was some amount you, you know, you could pay and then some amount you would, you know, defray until later? Is that...?

CLIENT: Is there interest on the balance?

THERAPIST: No, no. I wouldn't put interest on it.

CLIENT: Yeah, that seems very...

THERAPIST: Okay. (pause) Maybe you could, you know, think about what you feel like you could regularly pay every month, and then I could hold, you know, the rest as some sort of balance, and you pay it when you find work and you can...

CLIENT: Okay, but what you want is some sort of regular monthly, like a fixed amount?

THERAPIST: I think that would be good, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. [00:07:30]

THERAPIST: And, you know, you don't have a signed (inaudible), but just pay the balance, you know, (inaudible)

CLIENT: I mean, I'll tentatively throw out, like $50 I can do, but I've, you know... I also got in an accident and I might have to pay for the bumper replaced, there are all kinds of stuff, so... I'm trying to stretch things in every direction, I guess.

THERAPIST: Yeah, no, I get it. You know, stuff comes up, so... But, yeah, I just want to feel like there is some sort of regularity to it, for me.

CLIENT: Yeah, $50 should be all right, if that's okay.

THERAPIST: (pause) Then you'd feel okay running a balance and everything and paying it off down the road?

CLIENT: Well that's good, that's what I assumed. I assumed that would happen. I just... didn't anticipate making like, a regular payment.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess that's something that I'd like if we do.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. So, I'll get you something the next time.

(pause 00:08:50 to 00:09:10)

I feel like I was kind of disjointed last time, so I might just complain about stuff. I don't usually like complaining, but I don't feel like I was very cohesive, trying to put together like a very conscientious picture of anything, or I don't know. I don't know how to explain better. It was rather fragmented.

I felt kind of "on my heels" last week. Like, I went into... Or I suppose I emerged from like a confrontation with my parents about my ability to support myself as sort of resolved and emotionally committed to making my life, I guess. But, it's like the wind sort of dropped out. Basically after I've masturbated, where, you know, I just, I felt like I broke the promise to myself. I had all this nervous energy, but I wasn't channeling it properly, and then I (this is before I masturbated), then afterwards, I was just sort of sedate and like pissed off at myself. I don't think it's a small thing, either. Like, I think it's pretty serious if you make a promise to yourself that you've got to keep it. [00:10:29]

So, I don't know about that. I could certainly use some feminine contact in my life, I think; not like a one-night stand but like, someone sort of caring, or someone I could care about consistently; either one would be fine. Because I think that would sort of free me from my militant conscientiousness, this sort of like, berating voice that doesn't seem very productive, but that sort of stays with me.

So in the past week, I've been pretty depressed. I think I've stayed in bed an enormous amount of the time. (therapist responds) I haven't really done anything. I think I played a video game (inaudible). I mean, I don't think; I know I did. You know, I don't like doing that. [00:11:25]

THERAPIST: What, yeah, what led to the, you know, you wanting to take up (ph) in bed and...?

CLIENT: I just didn't feel like I could do anything. Like I explained, not very well. I had this feeling, like this emotional commitment. And then it just, you know, after, when I masturbated, it dissipated. There was just nothing left. It was like...

THERAPIST: Wow!

CLIENT: It was like... It was like the hole I had to scratch (ph), that's all there was. And so I, I didn't feel any confidence, any ability to fill that hole or... I just... I mean, there are books I'd like to read and I guess I read a hundred pages of one, but I... There are more complicated tasks which I keep putting off. [00:12:22]

THERAPIST: You know, like but masturbating kind of took the wind out of your sails?

CLIENT: Yeah. I... I sort of betrayed a covenant (chuckles), in a way.

THERAPIST: What did it mean to you? Betraying... you know, what...?

CLIENT: It meant violating, like a pact of God that meant... violating my own sanctity. I, but I, you know, I've come to various intellectual terms with it, but it's just... It seems like a crucial time for me, and maybe I'm defraying some of the pressure onto moral issues; I don't know.

I just, I want that entrepreneurial spirit that looks at things, and the opportunistic spirit. But instead, I feel like I'm just like, trying not to get hurt or trying not to take risks or trying to shield myself when it's not healthy, especially for me now, because I feel like... I was in a situation coming out, like I've explained those scenarios where like, some girl is like really rude to me, and I like, construct a website or something or I feel like focused fonts (ph). [00:13:45]

In this case I wasn't focused, but I had like, some sort of heart, you know, in the game. But I sort of robbed myself of that, because I don't value myself. Like, I don't, I don't... I'm not convinced... I have no firm hold on like, happiness or what makes life enjoyable for me. I lost it. I felt like I had it a couple of weeks in there; where we've been meeting, I've felt like I had some sort of... (therapist responds) at least I was palpitating, I was touching something. (therapist responds)

But I just completely lost the connection. And even describing it now, it's like stupid! It's really stupid to be, to sort of regret things or not necessarily just to regret things, but to try to hold onto things that are past, because you just miss more in the present. [00:14:41]

THERAPIST: What changed? Do you have a sense of what shifted?

CLIENT: Um... (pause) Yeah, it's sort of like, if I'm a basket; I'm looking forward to like, these eggs. Like, there are a couple of eggs I could see, this is the four. I masturbated; like eggs I can see. And some of them are harder to reach, and some of them are close by, but I, I had them sort of in sight, and I can... I could put them in the... You know, I'm eager to kind of figure out how to get them, and put them in my basket. And then after masturbating, it's like, the basket has a hole in it, so there is no point in even like, grabbing the eggs. It's like, it's pointless because I'm not worth anything. (therapist responds) I don't know. [00:15:44]

THERAPIST: Masturbating takes on that kind of meaning, that you don't feel... You're not serious enough about yourself or care enough about yourself or worthy enough or...?

CLIENT: What's...? Well, the way I experience it is I'm not constantly thinking, "Oh, crap; I masturbated. Oh, crap; I masturbated. Oh, crap!" It's like an emotional reality like, the event around which it leverages oddly enough, or the lever event is the fact I masturbated. It was twice actually, but I mean, the first time would have been okay, I think. I don't know what else to chalk it up to, because it's pretty clear cut.

THERAPIST: What were you thinking about when you were masturbating? [00:16:30]

CLIENT: I wasn't thinking much; I mean just... I guess it was just, I recognized that I'd made a sort of a pact. But it was almost a spiteful... It was like following a trump card, at the body, in that... (pause) This is from my... I don't know how to describe this, because it's obviously like, an internal conflict. So I'm describing an internal conflict that's like, weird and overly contrived.

But, one way I see it is that I can't really incorporate my sexuality into my life. I can't, like, make peace with it, I can't leverage it effectively, it doesn't seem to... I mean, I've been getting a little better, I think, but I can't incorporate that. The fact that I tried to shaft, you know, masturbation or sexuality or whatever, just meant that it was inevitably going to sort of bubble up and rise up and say, you know, just shove it in my face. You know, basically like, you know, I'm, just like...

THERAPIST: I'm a sexual being. [00:17:51]

CLIENT: Yeah, just like a child would sort of spite a parent after being punished and... I can't even imagine a circumstance, but we do it to each other, just to show that we are connected. In the same way, I think, a sort of sexual part of me is not going to be completely denied. (therapist affirms) It's the same futility as like, locking up to someone in prison for, I don't know, like for decades and hoping that society will be cured. I don't think it works.

THERAPIST: And do you, why did you want to put your, why did you not want to masturbate? What...?

CLIENT: It's like an OCD thing I had. I had three... I got these three... I was in a meeting and three things came to me. It was sort of reconstructed later, but, three things I needed to do, just with some sort of pact with God. I mean, this is a new thing; I haven't ever been inspired by God and I didn't think I had contact with God. It's just sort of like, a sort of covenant I made that made sense at the time, and that was sort of experiential, not like ecstatic, but... No more caveats; I mean, it's just a pact I made. [00:19:19]

The three things were, in reverse order, I have to have children, I have to love my sister, and I have to not masturbate; at least, I think that was the first one. I don't know if I remember it clearly. But in my own experience... Well I won't go into that, because I have a whole clinical assessment of masturbation, but it might not be relevant.

(pause) But where I'm at is, I just feel in that state where I am sort of, I'm like dodging things. I'm not really looking to get anything for myself. Like, I totally, I feel like I'm an actual, a basket with a hole in the bottom. I just don't have the... I don't feel how it's underneath or connected to anything.

THERAPIST: Yeah, somewhere when you broke the covenant, that's what happened, this hole? (client affirms) This hole emerged.

CLIENT: Yeah, I broke faith, the covenant "once," but I figured it would be okay. But then the second time was just like, rubbing my face in it. (chuckles) [00:20:25]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah!

CLIENT: I don't know. It's...

THERAPIST: Well, we could, it's sounding like it made you feel defeated and weak or...?

CLIENT: Yeah, those are accurate descriptions. (therapist affirms) And like, also just the lack of connection. Like, I didn't feel connected to anyone; didn't feel health/helped (ph), I didn't feel a connection to anyone. Like, I've been feeling a connection to people at my church, but I just didn't feel... It's like there was a piece of the net that had been sort of cut off. And when you're in that situation, it doesn't seem as much use to do anything; or when you... if that feeling has some validity. (pause) Yeah, and there is...

THERAPIST: Well, you said, it sounds, one thing in this, is it seems like you broke something with God.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean that could be a big deal. I don't think He wins that much, but I mean, it would matter to me. (chuckles)

(pause 00:21:33 to 00:22:00)

Yeah, I'm throwing into the mix just the fact that, you know, my mother, when I last left her, only showed... The only relationship she proffered was one of pity and sort of doubt whenever I'd do things. Someone said "life is half expectation and half... Or "what happens in life is half the result of expectation and half the result of inattention." I think it's true. It's not all that relevant, but I do feel, I wish...

If someone's going to be related to me or going to be involved in my life, I would like them to have different expectations for me than pity or (therapist affirms), you know, worry or whatever. I just, I don't think I have any use for that kind of person. And yet, on the other hand, you can't just... (inaudible). I have a cellphone, so it's impossible to... (chuckles) I mean I guess I could block my mother, but...

THERAPIST: Oh, you mean she can always be in touch...

CLIENT: But yeah, just always... that. And her own use of her life is less than salutary, I think.

(pause 00:23:15 to 00:23:33)

Don't you just need like, a good kick in the balls, like somebody just... After you recover, you sort of get going. (therapist responds) (pause) Yeah, so that's a good connection and it's not apparent to you at all yet, but I mean (chuckles)

I was sort of leaving my parents and I felt like, "Okay, I have to take care of myself. Here I go!" So I'm cut off from them, but I'm good. You know, I went from that, to being cut off from them and then having no energy. (therapist affirms) To use the sailing metaphor again, to sail from this "Pitying Bay" (or whatever it is, this pitiable place), and then I'm out and there is the ocean, and there are nothing in sight, and then the wind dies; and it's just like, "Okay, here I am!" (chuckles) You know?

(therapist affirms) And these terms sort of portray how my experience is; I'm sort of like, seeing myself as the, experiencing it as a victim. Like, I want to get stuff going, I just can't pull it together. [00:24:36]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds like the masturbating kind of really undercut you, in some way. It was the... Yeah, that in some way... I was thinking about, you know, to extend the metaphor, you felt, maybe as if you weren't in control of the ship or something; you wouldn't be... You wouldn't be able to steer it or be in control of it? I don't know.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's tough to connect that metaphor.

THERAPIST: Something, though, something that you kind of, you didn't, it's... I think you feel less confident, less... (pause) And where's the...? I mean you say actually the wind the died down. I mean...

(pause 00:25:42 to 00:26:36)

CLIENT: (chuckles) Something about my family. Do you know that McDonald's like, the Monopoly thing? (therapist affirms) And if you get two Boardwalks you get like, a million dollars?

THERAPIST: Oh, you have to get Boardwalk and Park Place.

CLIENT: Boardwalk and Park Place. The two blue ones, yeah. Dark blue. Somewhere in like 2000 or something, when they first had the game... You know, my family had one of those tickets and my aunt's family had the other one. (therapist responds) I went over to my aunt's house and I was like, "Hey, you have Park Place! And we have Boardwalk!" And it was like, our families aren't that well-off, but like, it sort of speaks to the character of the family back then, that we didn't do anything about it. It was like, money, it wasn't like a focus. [00:27:26]

I don't know. Like a "cult of character." When I say "Hello" to... Like, I stopped by a yard sale in Tewksbury, where I grew up, and I mentioned my name. My grandmother was a kindergarten teacher. The people just, when I mentioned my name, the people just stood up and shook my hand; like it's weird!

My family was all about character. It's not anymore, but it was. And... Yeah, one of my grandfather's best jokes was: Someone said a guidance counselor was counseling one of the cousins and said something along the lines of, "You know, you should get on track. I mean, you can either be going to Brown or you could be going to Boston College." So my grandfather said, "What's wrong with Brown?" (both laugh)

(pause 00:28:24 to 00:28:39)

THERAPIST: What does that say about it, what, I mean, what is it...?

CLIENT: Just kind of a do-it-yourself person. Yeah... He was in the military and... that, too. I felt like he had some principles. I mean, some people found him sort of grating, the women especially. I mean, like my, the aunt that I feel betrayed me by whatever, she never forgave him for saying something like, "He let his wife (the kindergarten teacher) he let her pay the bills," because he implied that it helped her to feel important. She just never forgave him for that; but to me, that's sort of like affection of the time. He was sort of stiff and he was an engineer. I don't know if I can explicate the joke for you, but he was... I admired him, he was a good character. [00:29:34]

THERAPIST: Principled. Yeah.

CLIENT: I guess I'm not confident that I can embody any sort of principle. And I don't have support from my family. I have material support if I want it, but they don't even have faith in me to do the most rudimentary things. Perhaps deservedly! Like, maybe I've betrayed their trust.

THERAPIST: Do they question your character?

CLIENT: I think they presume it untrustworthy (therapist affirms) ever since I dropped out of college.

THERAPIST: Untrustworthy! Huh!

CLIENT: (pause) Or capricious. (therapist affirms) Untrustworthy is accurate, though.

(pause 00:30:39 to 00:30:57)

THERAPIST: Do you think that took the wind out of your sails?

CLIENT: Maybe. There are certainly times when I am eager to do something, and I talk to my parents and I just get deflated. But I've... I don't' know. On paper, my life has shown a sort of a lack of direction the past couple of years. And the weeks keep going by, you know? I don't seem to do much with them.

I mean, I know I could do anything. But I don't think I have the will to do it. Like, I could be in Columbia, Dartmouth, I could be probably an artist, I could be... I mean, people have said such things to me, but I... I feel like I could do these things; at the same time, I have no desire to do them, so they're just kind of pointless. I feel like I should have a desire to do something, but I really don't. [00:31:54]

I think I was raised on sort of... I liked your "child star" analogy. (chuckles) Like I, I think I was raised like, love was sort of contingent for me. Like, I had to do well, even in elementary school, or else I would just be rejected by my parents. And... I don't know where that was going...

(pause) And so I think it plays into as far as survival instinct. Like when the rubber hits the road, or whatever your, choose your analogy, when the shit hits the fan, I'm pretty good. But, up until that point (chuckles) I don't give a damn; like, I'm just fine, just coasting. As much as I'd like to formulate, like exotic life plans, I just... You know, until the rent's due, I, you know, I don't have to do anything. So... [00:32:46]

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah, yeah. The wind is out of the sails, or something about that. You're not put, you don't feel... You feel almost, as if you feel like some... robbed or... Something that would fuel you or motivate you is lost until there is a pressure on or there is a kind of a... the rent's due. (client affirms) The bill has to be paid.

CLIENT: Another thing that happened. I was in the grove. My grandfather built a house in the Hamptons. He bought five acres for like, $300 after World War II and he built a house with his friend. So years later, my cousin and I, Seth (sp) were playing baseball in the grove and I wanted him to throw it faster because I felt like we were just sort of tossing it around; catch a fast ball, like a catcher. [00:33:45]

And so he threw it, and of course, it hit me right in the head (I still have a very small bump), right in the head, like as fast as he could throw it, and it hit right here. (therapist responds) I sort of involuntarily teared up. But at that moment, my grandfather passed by, he just said, "Stop crying!" (laughs) And I did! I mean, that's sort of his attitude, too. And I carried over into that, I think what I was about to say, a sort of whining.

THERAPIST: Hmm! (pause) Whining!

CLIENT: Yeah. Oh, but I think Lawrenceville really... I felt sort of betrayed by that. I had a very clear image of what the school would be like, and how I would be embraced as someone who is intellectually adept and enthusiastic; and it wasn't that. I was ostracized. The better I did... It was a place of privilege, and there were certainly things I could have worked more positively upon, but I... I think that, combined with the fact that I was sort of torn out of the fabric of my family, both physically and socially, because they (even some of the aunts) started to eyeball me as someone different or marked for ascension (ph) or something. It perturbed my relationships in a very significant way. [00:35:17]

I'm not sure I ever, I mean... What I will say is, I've lived with that compromise. I think because of it, I have like, a much darker sense of humor than most people. I have lower expectations, I don't... By the same, I think, by the same coin, I guess I don't feel as motivated or convinced that there is sort of a green pasture ahead. Everything seems to go off... If I look at it as possible, I might think everything in sight is sort of tainted, you know.

THERAPIST: Something about this is, with regard to the metaphor of you sailing off, because there is something about... You know, the further you sail off, the further away you are from family. (client affirms) The wind dies down and yeah, you feel lousy. You feel out of some sort of internal kind of push or drive. You're connected, but connected maybe closer to home, but in a way that feels lousy, always feels deflated or defeated. [00:36:34]

CLIENT: When do I feel deflated?

THERAPIST: Well, like you know, when the wind,... You know, you're adrift out of the, how did you put it? Out of the bay of your family (client affirms) and, but when the wind dies down, you feel like you're just kind of in this... Maybe you're not as far out to sea, right? But you're closer to the bay, but you're still, you feel defeated, you feel deflated, you feel like you're no longer sailing along, you don't feel like you're moving. The ascension takes you further away, but if you don't ascend, then you feel connected, but in a way that feels... I don't know...

CLIENT: I don't feel like it's my own. (pause) Yeah, I mean ideally, I could stay with my family, but the fact is I don't feel like I own, I own that territory; and that's why I have to go. Like, I can't maintain the person I want to be in the presence of my family somehow. (therapist affirms) [00:37:50]

When I was on my road trip, after freshman year in college, I said something to the effect, at our farthest point... I was talking to a girl, and I said something like, I'm going to leave my family, but then (and I was quite drunk), then someday I'm going come back like, armored with some sort of experience from the world, and I'm going to return among (ph) my family. And that's probably true. I think you need to garner some independent identity and then... return to the people you love, but... I've had, I guess, a couple of "failures to launch." I don't... Maybe there is too much trepidation on my part or I, I haven't been able to immerse myself in that "social sea" so much, or as much as I need to. (therapist responds)

(pause 00:38:54 to 00:39:12)

Yeah, so like right now, I can think of some things I could do. I could be somewhat resolved to do them. I can get back to my apartment... I mean, there is my computer, (inaudible) sports, there are books which I won't read, there are video games, there is food... I mean I somehow managed to just distract myself. (therapist responds) And there are no one really around me who's saying (any longer), who say, you know, "This is what you should be doing, or you're clearly getting full of this." You know, my mother herself has said they've given up on me, so... (therapist responds)

(pause) You know, I think I need to get... that's not true. I mean, I'm not going to get to a place anytime soon where I have someone who's pushing me, I don't think. So in the meantime, I kind of need to be entrepreneurial. When I lose that, I don't stand much of a chance. But it is difficult to organize, for me, to organize my time when I'm alone. [00:40:23]

Someone said it years ago, I dismissed it. Like, I'd run off to Vancouver with ideas of becoming some sort of singer artist, but he had said something to the effect of... I ran into an old Lawrenceville buddy, he said something to the effect of, "Yeah, I think what you're doing is cool, but I know for me, I would never be able to organize my own time." That's one of things he said; the other thing was he... You know, he valued... "You know, I'm the one that makes me happy, but I appreciate things that require money in life. (therapist responds)

You know, I went to, when I went into Lawrenceville, I could... I was pretty organized and focused and all this stuff. But when I came out, I had no work habits. I would just do... I would do the bare minimum, I'd do it well. But there was no organization in terms of my time. That's carried over, I cannot organize my time. You know, I set up a schedule for the day, and then I immediately do something that's not on the schedule. I mean, there are rare days when I do what's on the schedule, but usually only very tangible tasks, like make a hamburger or organizing this or like physically organizing something. [00:41:47]

THERAPIST: Uh-hmm. Do you not like going by the schedule once you've made it?

CLIENT: Maybe it puts off satisfaction too long (chuckles), longer than I'm used to; I don't know. There, I love doing the schedule. If I go through and cross everything off; that's incredible! (therapist affirms) I hardly ever do that. Maybe I should do that more. (pause) How would I know if I had dyslexia?

THERAPIST: Um... How would you know if you had dyslexia... You'd have a hell of a time reading; wouldn't be able to remember what you were reading, maybe. Why; what are you thinking? What makes you...?

CLIENT: Well I read pretty slow, I do get letters mixed up. Like I can read, I just read pretty slow. I get numbers mixed up. I don't remember all the right numbers, but they'll be in the right order. [00:42:51]

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's kind of a... dyslexia is really a disorder of reading, and mixing up numbers or mixing up letters is a very rare, small part of that. It happens more because something is processing incorrectly, so there are usually... But you can be a slow reader and have dyslexia, you can just be slow.

CLIENT: (pause) Wait; you can have dys... It sounded like you were arguing against it, I guess; but then you said you can be slow reader and have dyslexia?

THERAPIST: No, just, yes. Slow reading is a symptom of dyslexia. I mean basically, it's by definition dyslexia is slow reading, slow reading given your cognitive capacities in other realms. So if you're, if you've got other aspects of cognitive functioning that are, you know, in the "x" range and your reading is in "y," or x-20 on a standardized scale, then you've got dyslexia. (pause) How is your attention been? [00:44:11]

CLIENT: Of reading?

THERAPIST: Yeah, while you're reading and focusing. Can you...?

CLIENT: (pause) I guess I haven't really been tested. I've been okay with the reading group. I can remember the things that I find important. You know, four or five points a book. I think it's okay, the attention. It's what I'm used to, anyway.

THERAPIST: Do you read slower than you used to, or have you always been a slow reader?

CLIENT: I guess I'm reading faster now, but I've always been really slow, like 10 to 20 pages an hour. (therapist affirms) Yeah, the weird part about the numbers is like, I'll read the number and I'll say it out loud, I'll say it out loud, say it out loud. And it's like, what I've said is a mixed up number. (therapist affirms) It's like I just... see it that way, but... I don't know. [00:45:27]

THERAPIST: Yeah, that could be both attention and just serial processing. Which is important in reading, you got to keep going, letters, you know... (client chuckles)

(pause) But I don't think that's what's happening here. It's related to all this business around... A lot of... a lot of.... A lot of conflict, a lot of internal conflicts you have about, conflicted about... About, first of all, making a name for yourself in the world? It's always been, as soon as someone says Lawrenceville elites, it's always been fraught with... It's not been this kind of... straight-forward, pleasant experience to exceed, you know, excel... [00:46:41]

CLIENT: That's right, yeah. And it used to be. But, perhaps it naturally gets more complicated?

THERAPIST: Yeah, something about your... both the way your mother and your father reacted to it, what it meant in terms of your place in the family... All that has a hell of a lot of relevance. I think the other thing is, you know, when you're younger (yeah, or you're a kid in grade school, you know), you're not that worried about making a name for yourself or kind of drilling into kind of an interest and all that. I think around, you know, middle school, high school, you start to go, "Well, who am I; I want to be different than my, I don't want to be just the sum of the expectations my parents have for me."

(pause 00:47:29 to 00:47:51)

What...?

CLIENT: I need to fuck again; I mean I need to... it's been too long. (therapist responds) I think that (inaudible) would help me quite a bit, because it would just throw me into that space where I'm sort of recognizing myself and someone else and I'm doing something that makes us both happy and I can be satisfied and they can be satisfied; it's good for everyone.

Just this moment, we're talking about casting kind of a broad net here over relevant issues, but, for this moment, I know I've been lacking a sense of my own contentment or ability to be contented. You know?

THERAPIST: (pause) All right. Well, Tuesday.

CLIENT: All right, thanks. I'll get you your money.

THERAPIST: Okay. Oh, wait! Here you go.

END TRANSCRIPT