TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay. Keep on track. So we should probably talk schedule and stuff huh?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What's yeah tell me a little bit about you know, what you know on your end of wants.

CLIENT: Sure. What's well Tuesday, I mean during the week I'm working kind of the middle of the day. So I could if you have something available like at 3:00 or 4:00 Tuesday I could probably do it. [00:00:45]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But or even later I guess, but that would be ideal if we could keep that.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Friday I can probably make this, although if possible it would helpful to have it move back like 15 minutes, but I mean it's workable.

THERAPIST: So it would move back to start later or start earlier?

CLIENT: Start later, well, yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. I'm going to see if I can work on that. Yeah. What if we met at 2:35? Can you do that?

CLIENT: For Friday?

THERAPIST: On Fridays?

CLIENT: Yeah I can do that.

THERAPIST: Okay, let me let me work on that.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: I'll get back to you. I'll call you this week early next week if not today.

CLIENT: Cool.

THERAPIST: And just a little what is your so when does the insurance run out and -

CLIENT: It'll be pretty soon. [00:01:52]

THERAPIST: It's your birthday, so you're birthday.

CLIENT: June 14th.

THERAPIST: June 14th okay.

CLIENT: So we have this next week.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah. And -

CLIENT: What kind of pricing plans are you offering?

THERAPIST: (laugh) Well, what do you think you can do? What do you think you can do?

CLIENT: Did you get the check for May or whatever?

THERAPIST: I did, thank you, yes.

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: And what are your thoughts about it? About what can you do? What would you like to do?

CLIENT: I don't know. I was thinking about maybe taking a break for a while.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Catching up on finances. Hopefully keeping my foot in the door to come back and see you. But it might make sense for me to just stop for a bit. [00:02:56]

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Any reason because of?

CLIENT: Well finances and I find this valuable, but it's you know I'm already in debt. And the I don't know. I do appreciate the investment. I mean I could, I could find a pretty good cable package for $80 a month, but I don't think it could beat (laugh) my therapy sessions, you know. So and I think it lays a good foundation for me. [00:03:31]

So that's something I was think about. It's like a like a I don't know, check back in three months or something. The other thing was (blowing noise) I'd probably want to pay like $25 for a session. And maybe knock it back to one session a week if I could do that. So those are the two things I was thinking about. [00:04:08]

THERAPIST: Oh so you mean two options for -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: So that's what I thought I could do and that's what I've been thinking.

THERAPIST: Okay, yeah. Let's see, okay. Well I can do that. I can do the I can do the $25.

CLIENT: For a session?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well what will happen is this will cover $50 and then if you pay $25 it will be $75.

CLIENT: That's great.

THERAPIST: I can do that, yeah. With the understanding that like you know after three months check back in about where you're at financially and seeing you know, if you can do more, I'd ask you to do more, if you can't -

CLIENT: Okay. [00:04:58]

THERAPIST: We'll play it like that.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And then we'd just meet once a week though. Is that the -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Deal?

CLIENT: I think that's fair.

THERAPIST: Okay. Which day by the way would be better for you?

CLIENT: Keeping to either Friday or Tuesday?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well I guess if it's Friday to I'm just thinking right now I don't think I can do I don't have Tuesday afternoon available right now.

CLIENT: Um-hum.

THERAPIST: After about noon anyway.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah I wouldn't be able to make Monday any longer.

THERAPIST: Okay. Okay. Okay, why don't we why don't I work on this Friday at 2:35.

CLIENT: Okay. [00:05:55]

THERAPIST: And I'll get back to you about it.

CLIENT: All right. But we'll get something up.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Can you meet Tuesday, next Tuesday?

CLIENT: If it's in the afternoon, then yes.

THERAPIST: But you can't do it at noon next week?

CLIENT: Not at noon.

THERAPIST: Okay. Let me just see if I can do the if somebody's out of town or something.

CLIENT: I mean there's the off chance that the guy may cancel for Tuesday because, who knows, but that's certainly not in the for me, that's not in the works. I mean he hasn't canceled on a day yesterday, but I it's possible.

THERAPIST: Hold on a second, let me see. (pause) [00:07:00]

Okay, yeah, I just I don't unless 11:00 would help.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: All right. Okay.

CLIENT: Shoot. Is there any way we can do our two meetings next week? Any afternoon next week?

THERAPIST: What about 3:15 on Monday?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You can do that?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: All right. All right, let's do that. Okay, let's get set.

CLIENT: It sounds probably like the same version last week. (pause) [00:08:00]

All right, so we'll try for $25 a session for once a week after the insurance? [00:08:07]

THERAPIST: Yeah so after the so we'll have next week and then I guess after that you're insurance because you're not getting insurance through your job are you?

CLIENT: (laugh) No.

THERAPIST: What are you doing? You're doing the pedicab thing?

CLIENT: Yeah thanks for working that out. It looks great the plan will help.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah sure, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: You know glad we can keep going.

THERAPIST: Yeah me too.

CLIENT: Yeah so pedicab like, I sort of walked in, I just sent they were looking on I perceived a need because they are on Craigslist and saying What's Providence's Best, like mechanic needed? Of course I just picked up the maintenance part of bend a few spokes. So I just said like I can do the work you need (laugh) or something. [00:08:49]

So the guy calls me back and I work I walked in there and I'm 30 minutes late and the guy is like are you always 30 minutes late? And I'm like not always. And then he's like can you true this wheel, and so this is the second wheel I've ever trued. And so this center is like a storage place, a naked kind of storage. There's this guy who's like a rabid stoner, but he's probably like a millionaire too. He's just like sitting, like watching me. And I'm at this rickshaw that's sort of turned up like vertical and I'm turning the wheel and like trying to like adjust the spokes. [00:09:25]

Like from the under I explained it to you briefly and you probably like only vaguely grasped it, which is about my level of understanding. So I'm there with this guy and like watching me as I've like sent two or three e-mails to him saying like, yeah I can do everything you need, like truing, blah, blah, blah. I didn't like remember anything, so it was just kind of vague. And so and I also challenged him like saying, like well depending on what like equipment you have for me (laugh) you know I can do it better. [00:09:52]

And so I'm just like, just spinning this wheel around like trying to figure out how to do this thing as he's watching you know, his expert applicant. And so I after like half an hour, I'm just like well it's not perfect, but you know. [00:10:11]

God. God, I'm done with it basically. He's like okay, that's pretty good. And he was so like kicking a little bit. But it was terrible. It was like I don't know if I ever told you this story, but I probably did, but it was a long time ago. The point was I went to my brother's graduation, I'd developed a lot of coordination because I had a job in the city, so I need to pack like nice clothes for my brother's graduation and bring my bike, and then take my bike to the train, and ride the train for an hour and then I get the bike off the train, and bike and then dress up and then go to the graduation, because I don't have a car. [00:10:49]

So I did all that stuff and ran into problems of course. The train wouldn't let the bike on, so I was behind some time, got to the graduation, I get there, I put on the khakis, they're old and the zipper just splits, like flies off. And so I go to the bathroom. There's only one bathroom in the whole school of 5,000 people. And like I'm you know trying to like cobble together my fly with like office implements like paper clips and elastic bands and junk. And people were like knocking on the door, and uhh, uhh, uhh. (laugh) [00:11:19]

And I'm trying to fix my fucking fly and I just give up on it so I think I get like a paper clip in the button hole and the things like gaping. And I just like sort of refuse to pay any attention to it or be embarrassed about it. And nobody notices for the whole graduation. [00:11:37]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: So it's kind of the same thing with the wheel. Like I didn't really let on that I was like exploring, but it was fun.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: I get the job and he dropped back my pay from $15 after this week, because he realized I know almost nothing about bicycles. But he said he'd train me and you know for three dollars less an hour I'll be supporting the other side of it, which is that I announced that I got the job to a few people in my church. And so I got five bicycles to work on over the weekend. So I've been doing that. [00:12:12]

THERAPIST: Five bicycles from the church?

CLIENT: From the meeting. Yes so I've been cleaning those up. I finished two. So that's helping me learn the stuff on the job.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay. And they pay you for it, or you just training on it?

CLIENT: I just said I'll you know, I'll bill you for parts at cost. But it would be helpful to me -

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: To be able to help you. So the one check I've gotten, they did actually pay me a little bit.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: But not a lot I mean it's like $38 or something. [00:12:44]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Okay so you're going to work at the you're going to work as the mechanic on that.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah and you get trained I guess, that's pretty cool.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's good.

CLIENT: It's great. Actually I there's this other situation I've run into a couple of times in my life where I fulfill the needs of like a woman in a marriage. I'm not saying sexually, I just like I do something that needs to be done. And the man gets sort of like like what the hell is going on here? Like he I don't know where I don't know the dynamics of this, but I know that the husband like takes some sort of affront at the fact that outside help was needed to fix a back door, to move a pile of mud or you know whatever. [00:13:35]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And where was I going with this? (pause) I must have transact. It was taken from -

THERAPIST: That you were helping out the woman, the wife?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. What we were talking about before.

THERAPIST: You were talking about the mechanic thing. [00:13:58]

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. So the guy, I got in a conversation with the guy and he was you know, they had this argument where the wife and the husband were on opposite sides of me and they were arguing. And what am I supposed to do? And saying well you didn't do it. And well I try to do what I can. And I explained that I was just like the husband and that you know there's something unattractive that needs to be done, it's I don't do it until there's something that's even less attractive that the man's attaching. And then you know something tangible becomes incredibly appealing. You know something concrete, workable with a defined conclusion. [00:14:35]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: It's it's incredibly satisfying.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: When you're faced with any sort of any co-like work or indeterminate dilemma. [00:14:48]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: So I appreciate that. And also I smoked a pipe last two weeks ago or no, two days ago. So it was I'd been thinking about getting back in to marijuana just to spice things up a bit. In this case it was kind of like he made the ask and he had his caveats throughout the day and like hey you know, let's knock off and go smoking, whatever. But it's one of those people who smoke, if you don't smoke with them, they get very defensive and it just sort of builds up. I know that from roommates, it's I'm not sure what it is, but it just builds up. [00:15:29]

So I smoked a bit, I said I'd take just one hit. But it was a grav bong hit so I guess I don't know.

THERAPIST: Well was that stronger?

CLIENT: It is.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: You can't tell me you haven't' smoked. You've I bet you probably smoked like a bowl, a bowl a day, a bowl every two days or something like. No response. (laugh) [00:15:52]

THERAPIST: Grav bong is what a gravity bong? Is that?

CLIENT: It's like you bubble it through the water. I didn't realize what it was called, I just you know, but I remember it now. You bubble it through the water. It doesn't matter to me. But it just means that you fill up an air chamber with like a one, you know two lung units of smoke. And then you breath in that smoke. [00:16:19]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: (chuckle) So yeah I immediately realized that it it wasn't something I wanted to get into. I had a great meeting with my sister and her boyfriend at the festival at Amherst. And some friends from some friends being at Amherst at the same time. And we talked about marijuana and some people in our family, so we're trying marijuana. And my sister tried marijuana, so maybe that sort of loosened me to try again. [00:16:51]

But I'd been thinking about it, but as soon as I took it I realized it was not something I want to do. I mean everything that makes you a man or like makes you like a viable contender in the world is sort of stripped away. Or in my case it was. I don't know how much people like to say your experience it different. But basically it's sort of familiar pricks of importance or priority just disappear. [00:17:17]

It's like I realized most of my most of my experiences like a it's like a trapeze act where there's just enumerable like pin you know like fear point, like needles. And they sort of informed me of how to behave. I even wrote some stuff for you I think. [00:17:43]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Is let me see. I mean I feel that that stuff stays with you for a while, so I'm trying to clean it out of my system. I'm pretty sensitive to it, psychologically or otherwise.

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: It's says for Roy: So caught in the rift between my duel desires to perform and profane. [00:18:06]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: A tremendous challenge of identify ensues. Aauugg. And all of this but a sixteenth moment stop in the so called sober life of Brandon. So I guess what that was saying for an extrication is that I (pause) [00:18:27]

THERAPIST: For the sixteen, what was this line about the sixteenth?

CLIENT: Sixteenth moment. So shit. What I was trying to say is that (pause) his name is Kyle, so the next page is oh, so my normal life like it's motivated by all these fears I was talking about. And I haven't explained those much yet, but it's not a very sane way of living. It's like I either have projections which are probably pretty accurate at this point. It's like a finely tuned machine. [00:19:06]

It's like tuning the spokes on a wheel. Like you have like certain tensions and these tensions on each of the spokes keep the wheel straight. They're very different like one can be who knows what the number is but it's like 300 psi, the other one is like 150 psi, 175, 58, whatever. You know 75 psi and just the series of these spokes tightened at certain points -

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Make the wheel in this direction, like keeps it straight. You know if you tighten one too far it's going to go out this way. [00:19:40]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: So it's sort of removed off the spoke tension, so or at least cognizance of the tensions. So what I'm saying is that you know my normal decisions were kind of kind of crazy. Like they're just , they're a number of concerns perceived from other people and other people's judgments that go into every single act that I do. [00:20:07]

THERAPIST: Aah.

CLIENT: So I'm talking about profane and perform. What I mean is like for instance, when I walked into a Tasty Burger you know the Tasty Burger up there, that day, you know typically I had an idea for norm. I hate the word norm, but I mean I have an idea of the norm of dress and behavior, or whatever. And I would be able to read other people's body language or what they say, sort of as impressions on that norm. Almost like a like a latex film, they make impressions and I can perceive things like that. [00:20:50]

Not that I normally have to think about it as a latex film, but sort of deprived of the the idea of the norm, I'm just sort of who I am. And I'm completely divorced from what other people think.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And at the same time so I'm completely untouched by their sinfulness, my constant concern. But at the same time I'm completely at its mercy. [00:21:22]

So in another circumstance, me and hardcore, we have walked into Tasty Burger smeared with grease and a simple tee shirt and shorts, and recognized a certain discomfort tweaking, you know and smiled. And then answered that, and met that with a sort of a proud composure. And a sort of a shove it in my face if anyone wanted to judge me, okay. [00:21:52]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: But this cramp was actually a greasy oblivious mechanic in Harvard Square. You know no less himself, but not meeting the challenge of of other's judgment.

THERAPIST: I see, yeah. Yeah.

CLIENT: So that's it was interesting. I mean it's something I if nothing else it illuminated the struggle I've been having for a long time and that I am -

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: You know trying to trying to I'm not trying to meet it in anyone's expectations anymore, define them. But I'm trying to meet my own expectations and they play off of play off other people's. [00:22:35]

THERAPIST: Play off others?

CLIENT: Yeah. And so the sixteenth moment is that you know, something that I (snap) would have taken like that. That would have been judged like that, it took a lot longer. It's not that simple though. [00:22:58]

Yeah like ever been able to make a snap judgment about what people thought of me in Tasty Burger. Snap judgment, snap action. But instead I just what comes to mind I don't know how I looked, but sort of a like a I have sort of I think I greet people with sort of snappy remarks. I hadn't realized until I was stripped of stripped of that ability. But I think I sort of I needle people when I meet them with like some weird greeting. (laugh) [00:23:26]

And instead I think that was replaced with sort of like a fish eyed stare.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: That I see and my roommates perceives. It's I don't know. Yeah. Oh yeah, so at once apart from the influence of others, I'm completely at its mercy. So this is problematic because who does not need to wean at the shifting gears of our turbulent social empire? Only a man entirely at home in its madness. [00:24:03]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Though stressful, who wants to well this doesn't make grammatical sense, but though stressful, you know who wants to dance alone? Deprived of the fact the day of judgment, nor mentor's right, or a fork from the inside, like an animal, I felt sort of a like an animal at times. Where or I don't know. Oh right, so one of my mentors said that what differentiates men from animals is the ability to reason. I didn't have the ability to reason or prioritize things in terms of importance. And so you know, at Tasty Burger I spent ten minutes thinking about my order. I ordered and then I searched for my credit because I hadn't thought to take out my credit card before I got to the register in those ten minutes. [00:24:51]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And I lost the receipt when my order came out so I didn't have my receipt to give them to get like the burger, and like those simple sort of things.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So like the person who might have been able to stand there proudly, looking you know, pretty blue collar or even worse, you know who was actually quite oblivious. [00:25:10]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And wasn't able to fight the battles I typically enjoy. And so in the conscious animal stratus of its place in the temporal order, his tenuous deny. Yeah, that's right. It's like animals are animals. Trees are trees. And like we're sort of we're a conscious mind which has given us the enormous capabilities of manipulation. But everyone's still trying to sort of mesh into their environment and like feel like they're a part of the whole. [00:25:41]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And so our grasp of our part in the whole, it's really tenuous as as really as the conscious animals. And so to be deprived of the faculty of recognizing where you are in the social order, is is, is even farther removed from where you want to be. So I didn't enjoy the experience and I just killed the buzz. (chuckle) I think smoking anymore is out. [00:26:07]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I'm investigating puns and techniques. Do I sound very different to you?

THERAPIST: A little bit, yeah. What do you what is it?

CLIENT: I don't and I need for you to ask that, I don't see.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I know just a little bit I don't know, a little bit talking in a faster pace, that kind of thing.

CLIENT: Faster? Okay. Grabs less, like restrained?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think whatever it is, the yeah.

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: More like an animal but the women (laugh) are even more more intrigued. I mean instead of just the typical like hair brushes or whatever, this woman yesterday, I walked into her office. I needed to use her computer, so she let me use her computer. And then she kept talking about how she like she didn't have a car ride home. And like she'd have to take the bus or maybe she'd walk in the rain. (laugh) [00:27:02]

And like I didn't even say anything. So yeah. And the dancing girl who I fucked things up with before she came back, and she was doing the grooming sign, so that was good.

THERAPIST: The grooming sign what was that?

CLIENT: It's an impression.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Interested.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Yeah.

CLIENT: But that leads into something it's not related to marijuana, but I had hoped to talk about probably as far ago as like a week and a half. [00:27:33]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But times have changed it. Or let's see. Oh yeah, so I get I think traditionally traditionally I've gotten to this place where I'm like I'm presenting myself to a potential mate and saying you know, I'm great, look at me. Look at the exceptional things I've done. And they're like yeah, that's exceptional. And then I'm like okay, so like I present myself, or I you know I get to this point where like I'm great and they know I'm great and like or I think they know I'm great, and like I assume that that's enough for a positive relationship to develop. [00:28:11]

Or like I don't understand why me being good isn't enough for a good relationship. Like that's it for me. I don't I don't reach out for the other person very much. I just like you could probably see it here, I mean if you chose to apply it to almost anything I've said. I mean I'm just I'm like okay, I'm great. So -

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: You know, I (laugh) like I just, I don't know. I conflate a relationship with being I don't know. Me being privileged or me being [00:28:46]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Cleaver or you know, me being great.

THERAPIST: A VIP.

CLIENT: Well yeah.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And I I know there's something more, but I don't know what it is, that's required ultimately to start relationships. Did you know five or six years ago there was this wonderful girl, and there still is, but five or six years ago I knew her when I was at college. I had just returned from Portland. I did get a job, sort of landscaping the arboretum. And there was a the arboretum did a favor for students and kept their plants for a few weeks after school got out and the college rented housing for the students during the summer. [00:29:34]

So working in the arboretum I had access to all these plants that the students had left there. And many of them were forgotten like this just people didn't pick them up again. But there was one from this girl and I decided I'd take it because she lived in my apartment upstairs and it would be a good way to start a conversation. Right, so I took this orchid and I watered it carefully and I kept it in my window. And I think I may have even placed it such that when the door was open it could be seen. So she might see it you know. [00:30:08]

But I hadn't told her I had taken it nor really stepped up to give it back to her. And over time the plant rotted. The roots became slimy, the bark stripped off and the orchid just died. And so at that point I couldn't really initiate the conversation either. [00:30:28]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: So I cared for this thing and I really wanted to cultivate a point of contact, but I destroyed it.

THERAPIST: Huh. Huh. What was there something about having her know that you had taken it? And you had done this special thing with it?

CLIENT: I didn't want her to think it was special, I just (laugh) I was conniving taking it. But wanting to know no I didn't want her to know I'd taken such care of it at all.

THERAPIST: Or that you had just taken it. You didn't want her know that you had taken it home. Oh it wasn't like -

CLIENT: I guess I was thinking -

THERAPIST: The conversation started about taking this home?

CLIENT: I'm not sure whether I thought like I'd just say, oh I took this because I thought it was abandoned. Or I would say, oh I took this because I was looking out for you. I didn't want it to, you know get thrown out with the rest of the plants. Because they were going to throw them out if people didn't pick them up. [00:31:23]

THERAPIST: Yeah, right.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: Yeah like I thought she would think it was a sweet gesture or something. But that's not what you were after.

CLIENT: I wasn't after thinking it was a sweet gesture at all.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: I was just I wanted that conversation started.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I didn't want her to think I was a nice guy at all. [00:31:45]

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: I don't think. Or at least now that's what I think. Maybe then I did actually want what you're saying. I just can't process it now. But yeah I don't think I wanted her to think I was a nice guy. Very impressive girl, not a girly girl. [00:32:11]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: (laugh) (long pause) Well I'm so glad to see you, especially after that marijuana thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah what was in that?

CLIENT: I mean I I immediately tried to in the slow state of understanding I was like okay, I'm in this burger stop, I'm just going to stick to that because it's the only concrete example I can really dissect. I'm in this burger shop and I sort of look like a fool, a little bit, I don't really care. But you know I'm going to take the steps necessary to clear this out of my system. Get back to where I was. And that's it. [00:33:04]

But the steps are really not sure what to do. The cleansing products are probably bogus.

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: Just designed to like you know pass a test. I want the active ingredients out of my system completely. [00:33:18]

THERAPIST: What has it made you feel like? What have you noticed?

THERAPIST: Well I think I'm more open person to person and more direct. But I don't have that (pause) almost like a diplomat's grasp of a immolator. I don't have a an awareness of other people's thought towards me. [00:33:51]

When you're riding a bicycle like, you know one of the car's behind you without seeing it. And you have to know where it is without seeing it. Without you know, yelling at it or anything else, you just have to know. And with people I mean I'd like to be a surprise. But it's everywhere, what is this? Jeeze. [00:34:06]

THERAPIST: It's some wicker.

CLIENT: Oh. (laugh) Yeah, with other people I feel like I don't I don't have that pressure that I perceived it as like pin pricks. And they have different like priorities weighted to them. And every decision I made in the past is sort of a I've resulted like running to you if we like spun the wheel of spokes, I like run through and feel all of them. And like now I make my decision on how to behave or what to say. And I just don't have any feel of that. [00:34:54]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: I don't think I sing better, but I sing less consciously. More sole, less skill.

THERAPIST: Huh. Well you should are you less inhibited?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't feel less inhibited, but I am less inhibited.

THERAPIST: No I see it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well I you know -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's necessary. Especially with the stuff at the meeting. I had this meeting with a guy whose article I edited and I didn't get his permission because we were on a deadline. And so I just changed a few things and said this is okay and kept my version in anyway and that got published. And so he submitted corrections after it was published. I had a meeting with him and I was just high [00:35:40]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And (laugh) he was sitting on the other side of the desk and here's like this 65 year old man or 56 year old man, who used to be a professor at MIT. And so we were explaining the process and me sitting on the other side of the desk sort of hunched over. And I mean -

THERAPIST: Well what went on?

CLIENT: Well we went out for tea afterwards. I think it went okay. But I I didn't have the sense of where where it should go. Like I think I I don't know. It's useless, absolutely unless to dwell on what should be or what would be if I hadn't smoked. But (sigh) [00:36:20]

THERAPIST: Not bad.

CLIENT: I feel like in order to continue sort of the upward progress I've made, with your help, with the help of the meeting, I need this astuteness when it comes to navigating social situations. And I feel stripped of it. [00:36:44]

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You know all of the other thing I was thinking about was what were you I was worried if you thought it was going to be this was going to end abruptly. And were you was that kind of something that you had you'd been thinking or was it a very real possibility. I just know that we didn't meet on Friday and -

CLIENT: Oh yeah, I was understanding what the thing was. Sure this could end.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I was hoping that I'd be able to come back.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I was thinking it's summertime and well that's not what I was thinking. But now I'm thinking you know, it's summertime, if I had to take a break, it would be a good time because I wouldn't be stressed by the weather and I was thinking also that you had sort of adopted a I don't know. You know it was interesting, I went to thinking of Felicia she sort of left me out to dry. [00:37:48]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: And I I had felt good providing for her and I knew she needed it. But the fact was I needed her more than I needed to help her more than she needed me. I needed her more than she needed me. And I don't know. (pause) [00:38:14]

THERAPIST: What were you -

CLIENT: Well I had felt like as a client I, you know I do my best to get here, but I do have this thing where I show up late sometimes, or often times. And then but sometimes I come and then you go to get a drink and you have time to go to the bathroom, which I am to I perceive as like you know, the way I perceive it is, it's a necessary sort of equalizer. Because I don't mean to give offense by being late, but I probably do. And just to maintain you know, your own sense of (pause) solicitude I don't know some sort of mutual meeting, it's you feel you have the right to sort of be late as more often. [00:39:17]

So I was thinking I was thinking of abrogating more. Almost like correcting a bend in something.

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Like proving to myself or to you, or to both of us that you needed me more than I needed you. So that was all sort of [00:39:41]

THERAPIST: Yeah, no, I -

CLIENT: Sort of darkly appealing.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well yeah, and I suspect that you it seems to me that you've been appreciative of what we've been doing here together and that maybe in some ways it's like a little bit of a a little bit of a vibe from you to be in a position where you really feel you've come to you know rely on this in some ways. And in some ways it might lend itself to the feeling that I have some sort of an upper hand. [00:40:16]

And out of a concern what that's like to be under somebody's somebody's a -

CLIENT: You're saying that you don't need me financially, or you don't you don't consider these sessions to be at all (pause) or you know more enjoyable then other sessions?

THERAPIST: I don't I mean there is definitely a financial there's a finance that's a part of this, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And there are ways that yeah, to what I need I need you I need money for this, yeah, absolutely. Yeah and so in that way my business is dependent. And then yeah, there's something that I defiantly get from you from being here. Yeah [00:41:14]

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: There's a real sense of connection.

CLIENT: Yeah. But otherwise I'd probably be replaceable.

THERAPIST: Would you be replaceable? No. You wouldn't be replaceable.

CLIENT: But the you know, the financial stress would be replaceable, you know but probably even better actually. [00:41:38]

THERAPIST: Well yeah, I mean I don't know, I guess there's some the -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There's people out there that need you know, it's a but yeah, what about that then.

CLIENT: Well how hard could it be for you to replace me?

THERAPIST: Oh to find to find somebody else?

CLIENT: Yeah.

CLIENT: I don't know. (pause) Yeah. [00:42:01]

CLIENT: I think you're great, I or I mean I think our sessions are great.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I now mean what's my stake in it or something like that?

CLIENT: You're right.

THERAPIST: Do I need -

CLIENT: I don't feel at all comfortable being in a relationship where I need something and someone else needs nothing. No one likes that kind of relationship. [00:42:23]

THERAPIST: No. No, you're right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no (pause) yeah, no it's a good question. I hadn't thought about it from that angle. (pause)

CLIENT: Throw down the glove like. [00:42:44]

THERAPIST: You do what?

CLIENT: I've got to get through your challenge here. (laugh)

THERAPIST: (laugh) Well listen, we do have to we do have to end. But that gives me food for thought. But maybe to that that in some way, how did that it would be bullshit to say that it's not something that I have I have my own needs for you too. That you pick up on that you're aware of that. That I get my that I have feelings or reactions to you being late, it's not just a matter of indifference to me, or if you don't show up. That I have something invested too? [00:43:33]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. Well all right, well let's do this. All right, next week.

CLIENT: Sure.

THERAPIST: Thanks a lot.

CLIENT: Well you're welcome.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. We'll work something else then.

CLIENT: Right, so much for your questions.

THERAPIST: There's always more questions. [00:44:11]

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