TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Let me turn this on. Looks like you've been in the shop huh?

CLIENT: Right. (pause) Yesterday I anticipated having a full amount of time to speak since we were used to like half when we were meeting two meeting a week.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I sort of filled out some stuff and I have all these scribbles, but it turns out I'm late anyway, so it just seems like nonsense. [00:00:39]

THERAPIST: Um-hum. Hum. Yeah a lots built up.

CLIENT: Yeah I mean, it's been a difficult period. I think we left at my birthday.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:01:00]

CLIENT: I had to I mean I (chuckle) I suppose I think I have reasons to complain or grounds for complaint, past birthdays. When I turned 21 I mean my best friend at the time. I don't know what I expected, but it I expected some kind of present or surprise party or something. But just nothing came together.

So I spent my 21st birthday like behind a Chinese food restaurant, like eating a General Tso's chicken. And then it started to rain and like it wasn't very enjoyable. [00:01:34]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And that's when I was returning to college. I mean I was returning, I'd moved in with a friend. And I just felt very disconnected from people.

THERAPIST: You had just moved back?

CLIENT: Right. Yeah, so I had spent well, like some time in Vancouver and Portland.

THERAPIST: Right. Right.

CLIENT: And then I moved back to the college over the summer.

THERAPIST: Over the summer, okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [00:02:03]

THERAPIST: Yeah, your roommate hadn't done anything and?

CLIENT: Right, yeah. So this past so one week ago it was my birthday and I don't know. It didn't really occur to me until like Wednesday of that week, and you know my mother had been sending me messages saying like well we want to celebrate your birthday. But I didn't really want to spend it with my family.

So the morning of, I just thought of some people of who I'd like to spend time with I guess. And I also thought if it was my day, and I didn't really want to a bar or anything. I didn't want to just cavort on the town, that seemed like of forced and not very enjoyable to me. So I just decided to invite people up to my house, which is in Everett. [00:02:52]

But you know most of the people I didn't even say it was my birthday. With most people I just sort of said there's a party tonight at my house, why don't you come over. I tried to send out individual invitations to try and get people interested. And so while everyone gave very warm birthday wishes, not many people showed up to the party. And I you know it's it was pretty sad at the time, but I also recognize that it's kind of silly. I mean it's not silly, it's just [00:03:21]

THERAPIST: No, it doesn't seem silly. What is it you feel? This sense, what was it?

CLIENT: Well my brother did come during the day. And he he brought a friend with him. And it was interesting because he brought like these video tapes, home videos from like years ago of our family. And a nice drawing from my sister which included just the it was a nice drawing for my birthday. [00:03:48]

And but his attitude when he came seemed to be that he was there because I had you know, no one else and so he was going to help me look at these home videos and comfort me or something you know. Which I promptly set him straight and and you know, I made gin and tonics for he and his friend and then we played a video game and then we went to the basketball court and lost at three on three, but we went and played. His friend was the one who was talking about how he was so sorry, whatever. [00:04:27]

THERAPIST: He was so sorry?

CLIENT: Well yeah, because he didn't notice it and I just have to find out that no one notices until they say something. And he's like sorry guy, sorry. Sometimes it's oh. But it was a good time and we played music that up too and they left. What he said to my parents, I don't know whether there's I don't know if my parents put him up to it, I don't know. But it's not Logan kind of accepts the kind of relationships that you know my family seems to want to foist on me. But we had a great time. [00:04:58]

THERAPIST: Yeah, well I guess he came it almost sounds like you felt he was pitying you when he came there. But you set him straight and you didn't -

CLIENT: Right, exactly.

THERAPIST: Made it clear you didn't want that.

CLIENT: Yeah. And at the time I still expected people to come to the party that night, so. Of course then I just thought there'd be board games and some drinking and that would do it. But really only two people came. And it's obvious when you send out these sort of invitations, it's the most planned people. And so I debated, there were just two people coming, and I debated not having them. Just like skipping out on them. Because I didn't really want to be with them. [00:05:36]

Because when it became apparent that out of you know 12 invitations, maybe only two two people had accepted and made it all the way out there. It took them two hours by public transit. (pause) Well I was thinking, you know a lot of my influence depends on other people thinking that I'm the person to go to. And if it becomes apparent that I don't have any real connection to people, or yeah, any reliable relationship with people, I become very less very much less valuable or less (pause) secure. [00:06:28]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: A lot of people can see that. But I thought that it wouldn't probably be right if they come all this way just to host them at least. Invited them into my home and they brought cake and (chuckle) we just sort of played together and I played them some songs before they left and that was it. [00:06:56]

But it was good actually because this one girl kind of liked me. And she had a boyfriend, but it it was clear from her body language that she was somewhat interested in me. And I you know, I'm not even sure if it was something I would take if it were less awkward. But it sort of was off the issue in favor of her boyfriend. But I think, but I don't know, but I think because I felt like I was sort of a charade or something. I didn't want them to come over you know. [00:07:28]

THERAPIST: Uh-huh. Yeah.

CLIENT: I was sitting there on my porch drinking whiskey, like whiskey on the rocks and thinking and sort of thinking about whether I should skip out and see a movie. It's like, it was an embarrassment. I don't want them to I sensed something saying like well you know it's much of a party, so you might not want to waste your time. [00:07:48]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I mean it's well, looking at it very deliberately, I'm not sure what to say. But I kind of got over it very cleanly. It was sad for like that weekend. I felt pretty disconsolate. [00:08:09]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: But I did only get to speak with the morning of, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess that yeah, I mean maybe the odds were stacked against you or whatever. But it seems like it's the way your response was about some feeling of kind of being like I don't know how you how you were putting it, but if you're not doing something to kind of you know, being the straw the stirs the drink or something, you're feeling like you're on the you know what well at least you feel you are. [00:08:57]

CLIENT: Yeah, I can't just sort of be (pause) Yeah, I mean I was really quite (pause) despondent for that weekend. I felt sort of cheated. I don't know. (pause) Yeah. And it also made me think about like how real my relationship to other people is. You know I've been fortunate enough to enter the Society of Friends which has given me some sort of community, if not a tight community, at least a battery of chance meetings with individuals. [00:10:03]

And from those meeting's, I've sort of gotten a sense of aptitude and importance, you know. But I'm also I'm probably going into most of them expecting to plan people's ideas of who I am, you know. Improve my value in their eyes. And there are certain postures that are involved in that. They're whatever, to whatever degree, they're conscious doesn't matter. But there are postures involved. [00:10:45]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: I guess yeah, when you're reaching for something like that, (very long pause) I want to say it right, I just always felt rushed I guess. [00:11:19]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Because you can say something just right and it make sense, but actually I could just say a lot of other words which suck. Like you know while you're reaching for something you're not firm or you're you're sort of fake, it's not [00:11:42]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. I mean and that's it, you go back to the not to use the same metaphor again or something, but thinking about the child star kind of thing of he's only the feelings yeah, you have a lot of kind of popularity, but is it all based on being a start? What about you know, just the (chuckle) person who's not that. [00:12:07]

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah that's exactly it. It seems to work very nice as a descent analogy. (chuckling)

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah because the I think in some way that sums up in some way my understanding of something that went on with you and your mom.

CLIENT: Uh-huh.

THERAPIST: And what I think more importantly, not just that it happened between you and your mom, which is important enough, but that it's left you with some impression about what is important to people. And what is important to people about you. [00:12:41]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What if I'm a what if I'm a bike mechanic?

CLIENT: I don't know. One thing I don't like about the child star thing is perhaps being bound by (chuckle) I watched those people turn up. [00:13:04]

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, I know, yeah, right.

CLIENT: But it is pretty useful. (pause) Yeah I I've had a series of experiences where I I feel hurt enough by not being paid attention to, or not or being excluded basically, that that I feel the need to insert myself deeper into into people's lives using whatever means necessary. Or whatever's available. (pause) [00:13:37]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: Yeah I had this girl who was I mean, what do you how do you take this? So I hate it when people like bring up their cell phones and they just like a conversation, and then they insist on showing you the conversation, like that they've had with someone because it's really it's just like, maybe it's connected or not. But it's sort of an external influence. [00:14:10]

It's not [deo-sex-macking] (ph) on it, that's too dramatic a term. It's like that's really it comes from nowhere. It's a non sequitur, that's fine, it hurts. It's just like where are you coming from? But, I don't know. [00:14:30]

Yeah, there's something about my birthday, the hurt's sort of past, but I wish I could take care of it sometime, so it's birthday. But it was really I don't know. (pause) It's just not fair. Anyway this was ultimately like having a minor fight with somebody I really didn't know. [00:15:02]

THERAPIST: Hum. This is separate from the birthday or something?

CLIENT: No, not really.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: I mean it was you know it's just like so this is like one of the things I sent out from my party. So I say how busy is Danielle tonight? And she say's alright, I'm going to Baltimore, exclamation point. I get back on Monday night, dash, dash, want to hang. So what does that mean to you? [00:15:28]

THERAPIST: Want want to hang question mark or?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: She might want to hang when she gets back.

CLIENT: Right. I get that comment, I want to hang. So I just say yeah, okay, which at the time, doesn't oh, it doesn't matter, but. [00:15:48]

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: Well I said yeah, okay. And I just I just like, I was trying to get people together for a party, so I was just like sort of shutting her out. But yeah, okay, it's sort of ambiguous I guess.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah it is. It wasn't like yeah that's great, let's do it. [00:16:02]

CLIENT: It's like yeah, okay. (chuckling) Oh and she said good, I'm going to miss that. But anyway I assumed from that message that she wanted to hang out Monday night.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Okay. So that was my assumption, and going through the weekend, going as it went so my birthday, making me despondent, or whatever. You know becoming despondent, it wasn't anything that made me that way, it's just there's something I can't put my finger on anymore. [00:16:29]

THERAPIST: Hum?

CLIENT: About some futility of my my attempts to I don't know, help pick real relationships with people I guess. I'm not sure what, but. Anyway I ended up drinking alone for all the weekend, just saying that. But anyway I so going as the weekend was, I was looking forward to meeting up with this girl on Monday, right. [00:16:57]

But and so I texted her and she's in like the process of coming back. I don't know if she's on a plane or whatever. But she's like completely oblivious to the fact that we're supposed to be meeting on Monday night. Or like hanging out on Monday night. It's just like not in her mindset.

So on my end I'm thinking as I sort of prod her, like am I just supposed to come out and like say, so you said we're meeting Monday night. Does she and I feel vulnerable saying that because like maybe it's just some game, like she wants me to say that I remembered that we were supposed to hang out Monday night and like it's important to me. I don't know what to think of this. [00:17:36]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But she's like pretending it's she's like completely oblivious to it.

THERAPIST: She was just detailing how she was on her way back and not mentioning about hanging out that night?

CLIENT: That's right. And so I yeah. And the thing is like been told this technical jargon, but normally her messages don't say like where she is. But in her response it would say okay, I'm in Rhode Island, or dah ta dah. So it makes me think she turned that on just to let me know that she's not where she's supposed to be. And in sort of an oblique way say that we can't hang out Monday night, which I can't really accept. I need things more exclusive. But. [00:18:15]

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: In any event she -

THERAPIST: Well she wasn't explicit to begin with. I mean she when she said want to hang, I mean yeah, you're left to assume that it's Monday, but she's not being clear. Hey, let's hang out Monday night when I get back. She said let's hang.

CLIENT: Right. [00:18:30]

THERAPIST: I mean I'd be in the same boat you are, thinking oh, let's meet Monday night. I'm not always sure.

CLIENT: Yeah, so we had this whole conversation where she's like it's not the first time. I mean I've asked her to other things, just like spur of the moment things. And she's always had some sort of commitment. [00:18:49]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: And she's like a professional person. She's involved in like a writing company, writing services company. So she's kind of interesting. We sort of hit it off when we talk in person. And I'm not unfamiliar with you know girls sort of not being direct. And you know [00:19:11]

THERAPIST: Quite.

CLIENT: Sort of stringing you along, right, but. And it's completely possible, in fact I could assume that it's possible for someone in this someone coming from her background to presume anything. But it's still, I don't know where I was taking this, it's just like, I hope that I kind of make this connection Monday night, whether it's a one night stand, or whether it's something more. I don't care. Like I need to see someone Monday night. And you know, she's just not it's like she said let's hang Monday night to me and it's not how I get it. And I'm [00:19:45]

THERAPIST: But you weren't saying hey what's up for tonight. You were kind of seeing what she was doing.

CLIENT: Yeah. I that's the weird part of it, it's like I just couldn't come out and say like, so aren't we hanging out tonight or like you know, but you did make even joking, but you did make plans to hang out with me tonight. [00:20:06]

So I was talking to her like about Mad Men and she's just like oh yeah, I'm going to watch with friends tonight. And so like another kind of oblique way of saying she's not hanging out with me tonight. From my point of view, but from her point of view, to hear it from her, she's completely oblivious to the possibility of hanging out Monday night.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Which I don't know why that's oblique or not. But it seems I mean it's stated pretty frankly. [00:20:26]

So eventually it's like, oh I didn't mean Monday night as the night we would hang, exclamation point. I already knew I back, getting back six, late. Sorry for the confusion. It's like I don't want an apology, you know. So here's here's a misunderstanding and it's like it's my opportunity to say okay, so we decided to meet each other and let's do this or that or the other thing. But instead I'm still like hanging on to my side of the story and all. [00:20:58]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well also something about you not wanting to go let's hang. All right, let's do something. What were you kind of feeling reluctant to kind of -

CLIENT: Of course because she was throwing out all this shit.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: She's in Rhode Island, she has friends who are watching Mad Men. My idea was just to basically I was hoping I could just go over to her apartment. Watch Mad Men. Whatever sexual stuff happens, happens. And that like just had a good simple, watching Mad Men with friends and all this stuff. [00:21:32]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: I'm not going to put any skin out there, I don't know if it's just so instead in response to that, when she finally say's oh, I didn't mean Monday night. I just say okay, you know, are you proposing anything? And then (chuckle) I think I made a mistake. It's one of those things you type but you're just like shit I shouldn't have said that. [00:21:54]

I said something like, so I said, okay, are you proposing anything. Because I had proposed things and she just says no, so. You know, it sounded like from the Monday night thing, that she was proposing something, right. So I say are you proposing anything? And no response for like two minutes. So I say, because this has kind of been a waste of time. (laugh) [00:22:17]

And it's just it's one of those defensive -

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, sure. Frustrated.

CLIENT: It wasn't a waste of time. It was something I needed desperately, but.

THERAPIST: That's right.

CLIENT: Right, but. I wanted to say that to sort of pull out. [00:22:34]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well also, you were trying to kind of I think engage whatever the her kind of ambiguous kind of way of being with you was. And you made yourself a bit vulnerable you know, and you kind of put yourself in some way out there. I think when you did it doesn't get pissed when you get it, you know. [00:23:06]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: Hum. When I was younger, I had a nightmare, and my recurring nightmare was in costumes.

THERAPIST: Costumes?

CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe I'll just tell you later. But these yeah. So with these girls, like I noticed a lot of the girls will start like, what do you call it, grooming themselves, they're like, what do you say, they start brushing their hair back, I don't know what it's called, but they seem to indicate they're like early indications of attraction, or you know caring what I think of them. Who knows, but it's it's usually an animal indication that they there's some attraction. They start pushing their hair back and you know sort of adjusting things to make them look better. [00:24:22]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Then I I (pause) well, it doesn't really go anywhere Like I don't know what to do with how to take advantage of that. How to I guess put something together, you know. It's like I abrogate some sort of pleasure or not even pleasure. It's like it's like counting money is (chuckle) what it is. If you want to use psychology, there's another one. [00:25:12]

THERAPIST: Hum. Did they express some sort of communicate an interest?

CLIENT: Some some increment yeah.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: Some favorable increment. But it's it's just like money in that its external. It doesn't relate to me personally. I don't know what to do with it. It's the same thing over and over with me. I really need a woman, like a reliable woman. [00:25:37]

THERAPIST: Hum.

CLIENT: And maybe in place of one who cares. But I I seem to intrigue quite a few people. And we get to that initial phase of where they seem to be attracted to me. Even more so when I'm lying apparently, but (chuckle) that's a dubious thing. But I can't take it anywhere from there, or I don't. [00:26:10]

But any rate I was I was having this conversation with the same friend I moved in with in college on my 21st, that time I spent the birthday behind the Chinese restaurant. But he was my best friend in college and a roommate.

And so I was on the phone with him and I was talking and I was telling him this that you know, that in the church it seems like a lot of the women are attracted to me, but I pick up signs that they're attracted to me, but I don't know what to do with it or how to I'm not very adept in capitalizing on it. [00:26:53]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: And he suggested that I see a psychiatrist and that. And he said something like yeah, have you thought about seeing a psychiatrist. And I said why is that? And he said well, because it sounds like you have some mental issues.

And it's interesting because that's the way he would talk, is just sort of a reckless pace. And he's someone who I would say is less mentally stable then I am. But that current as we're speaking now I mean, he has a girlfriend that has been with him quite a while. He's a physics student, PhD student at a university. [00:27:41]

I think sort of a a foundation for instability is sort of native him I guess. Some things that are stabilizing him. I just hung up on him. And this was still in the context of the same weekend. It's probably before the Danielle supposed Monday night meeting. [00:28:12]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: But I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I think it's that you felt like your friend's kind of out of line and insensitively. Is that?

CLIENT: No, I mean it it's just not I mean his only use was that he was someone that was he was supposed to be a friend that I could talk to. Not be not be concerned about what I was saying. And he's he's throwing it in my face, you know my my weakness or something. It's just not acceptable. I don't plan to talk to him again. Ever. [00:28:58]

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: Yeah, what, what what was it that he said, what about that he what was the infraction? (very long pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah I'm going through like the same phase again. Instead of a harvest I'm just sort of burning burning the harvest. Cutting people out. [00:29:51]

THERAPIST: Well yeah. Yeah. And for some reason and for some valid reasons, I mean yeah.

CLIENT: Well thank you. (pause) But I I don't have use for relationships where people don't (pause) I don't have use for certain relationships. I guess. [00:30:29]

THERAPIST: Yeah, have mental issues.

CLIENT: So, I mean well what do you think? I guess part of my reason for bringing that up is that I'm curious, like how crazy do I sound when I'm talking about these women being attracted to me or whatever? Because I don't know I don't make -

THERAPIST: Oh. I don't know. It sort of sounds like she's being flirtatious or I don't know if it's flirtatious, but she sounds like she's expressing interest. You -

CLIENT: With Danielle you mean? [00:30:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah, with Danielle, and the woman you've encountered. I don't think it's it's something that that's what he meant by mental issues. No, I don't agree with (chuckle) it's I mean his if that's what he was getting at.

CLIENT: But it has that sort of a desperate search though. I mean in some ways it's different, has sort of grainy like capitalist that's a stupid way to say it. But I just I'm so hungry in such a shallow way. Like biking through the city, it's very difficult when there's all these pretty women and like every single one of them is just (chuckle) like I don't know. It's not like a healthy mind set. [00:31:39]

THERAPIST: It's not? Well, what about it? Why isn't it healthy?

CLIENT: It doesn't feel healthy.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: (laugh) There's also there's so many misconnections so. It's not like me. I need some way that I can I can be present and still I don't know. I ran into there's this girl who she works at Brown. And I've run into her a few times, but just the other day, I know her from high school. And just the other day I was returning from the meeting house and she walked around the corner and so I you know it's like a shock, we just met right at the corner. But she was on her cell phone and I was just engaged. And I was walking and it took me a second to grasp who it was, and she just kept walking. It's sort of like misconnections sort of. [00:32:39]

THERAPIST: Um-hum.

CLIENT: For her though I mean, I our pasts like we meet and I get the feeling it was sort of there was nothing about that affair. It was like she was just talking to me out of courtesy. [00:33:06]

THERAPIST: Hum. But at any point did you sense something more?

CLIENT: Between us?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Not recently.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: Not ever, actually, no.

THERAPIST: All right then.

CLIENT: Yeah, there was once at the end of my high school, all the seniors get together and just say whatever they think. It's kind of like a quick reunion actually, the seniors from the high school. And I said something and she sent me some note via Facebook afterwards that said, you know I really appreciate what you said and I hope you, you know, I think you're smart or whatever, and all the best in whatever you do. Something, some trite note. But it was really I guess it touched me because it was when you say something heartfelt, you feel quite vulnerable. And it was I always admired her I guess for that, so. [00:34:02]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It was nice.

THERAPIST: I think I think one thing is that, well it seems to be like there's a bunch of stuff about women for you. I mean first is that you know they have like bodily, biological kind of its summer and it's warm out and women wear less clothes (chuckle) and there's just like a hunger there. But I also think there's that, just the way you put it, you say something like you also I think have a hunger for a woman that will respond to something heartfelt from you. They'll value it, remember it and think about it and think it's think that's special. [00:34:46]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I I talk to myself a lot, I get lonely. And I wish I had some friends, like people I could talk to or who someone like the friend who called me. I mean I can't really have a relationship with someone who thinks I have mental issues. [00:35:07]

THERAPIST: Well yeah, right.

CLIENT: I mean I, like if like you're nuts. I supposing if I were to keep that up like if it were to be fluid I would have to be someone with mental issues I guess to make it a sort of a a tight connection. I'm not sure that that the point is like I don't have people I can feel comfortable being myself, that's a I don't know what that means, but you know just being whoever and you know reinforcing that continually. [00:35:44]

I think that's sort of a side effect of a modern urban environment, whatever my generation and age group, class whatever, but it's it doesn't matter, it's just that's my experience and that's not quite adequate not to have a lot of friends. [00:35:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah and I'll say it like seems like you know also important, you know that I think you've well certainly you feel at times I can be clinical and everything But there's also nonetheless I think in some way you feel like you can try to talk to me about who you really are.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And that you've got half of it now. You know you're we're not meeting as much. That that does mean something to you, you know. And it should.

CLIENT: You're trying to get more money. (laughing) No, you should know I it's because I made every effort to get here and took risks to get here. I have pretty valid excuses which I won't state but it was it was great, not getting here on time, I wish I had. [00:36:52]

THERAPIST: I believe it. You don't say that.

CLIENT: Yeah but I my childhood nightmare was a costume. So I would just get sucked into the closet in like these suits and ties and like a tuxedo get-up would like smother me and I wouldn't be able to scream. Or I wouldn't even be able to scream before it smothered me, but I would just be so taken. Now I'm carrying a change of clothes for an interview with I I just feel very out much with [00:37:23]

I've been happier this week, I've been enjoying my work with the bike shop. See it's incredibly useful, I've learned. But, I don't know. I've also felt out of touch spiritually, I suppose like at the meeting there's a certain point where I had searched my spirit and I had said significant things. And I had reached meaningful understandings about the nature of life. And did that for a while. And then at a certain point, your just you want to fuck around so you fuck around with people psychologically and you try to build your own status and that's what I've sort of been taking on there I guess. And for you know I mean no matter how absurd that may seem. [00:38:18]

THERAPIST: Hum. Um. Well listen I've got to stop but so my vacation again starts on July 4th and goes through the 12th. And what I was hoping is that we could try to find a time to meet, if you're if you're schedule will permit it, on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday before I go away. Otherwise we wouldn't meet for two two weeks.

CLIENT: Sure. Well, I imagine around rush hour is probably a pretty loaded time for you. [00:39:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it yeah. But who knows. Do is that the best time for you though?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Ah, well what if we did Tuesday the July 2nd at 5:10?

CLIENT: That's good.

THERAPIST: Okay, but I'll see you next week at this time.

CLIENT: At this time.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:39:48]

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