TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: (sigh) (pause)

THERAPIST: Oh, here's this for you.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. I was going to bring a check today. I'll have to mail it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: [Where did you take that?] (ph) How is two at twenty five dollars, seventy five dollars?

THERAPIST: What's that?

CLIENT: How is two at twenty five dollars, seventy five dollars?

THERAPIST: Oh. What did I do?

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: I was trying to gyp me, man. Sorry about that. I thought you would notice.

CLIENT: (laughs) Come in next week, I'll be -

THERAPIST: What's that?

CLIENT: I'll be pontificating about it. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Hey, I'm out next week. [00:01:06]

CLIENT: Right, right. (long pause) I got a flat tire on the way here and I still made it in twenty one minutes.

THERAPIST: From Dunmore?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know how far the Square is but the Square is like the bane of my existence. I've been in like two accidents there. This guy cut me off and then I cut him off but there was potholes, and I got a flat in the potholes. [00:02:06]

THERAPIST: How the hell do you get from Dunmore to here in twenty one minutes? That's amazing.

CLIENT: Well that's not that amazing. Dunmore's far culturally but it's not that far physically.

THERAPIST: How many miles is it?

CLIENT: It's five and a half.

THERAPIST: That's still pretty fast.

CLIENT: It's fast with a flat tire, yeah.

THERAPIST: But you got a flat tire in the square? Where?

CLIENT: Well, just before, there's that, it's like a gas station across from a police station.

THERAPIST: Yup.

CLIENT: And that street that sort of curves down.

THERAPIST: Yup.

CLIENT: So I was passing somebody near the gas station. My tires must have a little low pressure or something like that and got caught in the pothole. So I just leaned on the front tire mostly. I have to see if the rim's damaged.

THERAPIST: Oh. (pause) Is it patchable or do you (inaudible at 00:03:08).

CLIENT: I didn't stop to [patch it.] (ph) (pause)

THERAPIST: And it's five miles. Is that as the crow flies or is five miles of -

CLIENT: Road. (pause) I know you're my best fan.

THERAPIST: (laughs) That seems very fast.

CLIENT: It was nineteen, then twenty three, then twenty, then eighteen miles an hour and then ten and seven with a flat tire.

THERAPIST: Is that right? So you could've just shaved off two or three minutes.

CLIENT: Yeah, it would have been a record.

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: That application is good for grocery shopping and just things that are like very mundane become like speed contests. [00:04:17]

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: I like it.

THERAPIST: What's the app?

CLIENT: Map My Run.

THERAPIST: What is it?

CLIENT: Map My Run.

THERAPIST: Map by?

CLIENT: Map My Run.

THERAPIST: Map My Run. Is it pretty accurate, you think, the odometer?

CLIENT: Well, yeah. You tell it when to start. If I designed it I would have it check in every ten seconds on your location.

THERAPIST: Oh, that's how it does it? (pause)

CLIENT: Oh yeah. So I sort of like hollowed out my past this past weekend. So I had some stuff I could do with the bikes and it seemed kind of boring, just for my actual customers, not the customers from the church. Two customers that dropped off their bike and they're just like, "Oh, we want to use someone local. Just tell us, whatever, how much it costs whenever you want." [00:05:20]

So I just decided not to work on those. So I abandoned those two bikes and a tricycle, an antique tricycle, I'm fixing. And I just rented a car and went to Vancouver for the jazz festival.

THERAPIST: Oh. huh. (pause)

CLIENT: I rented a car before because I knew I would need it. I was supposed to use the car to drop off the bikes that are (inaudible at 00:05:54) or something and I also had to deliver some other stuff. So the rental is basically paid for through, I mean in my mind, through work I was doing. But I took it to Vancouver. The Ford Fiesta's pretty good. It got like thirty eight miles per gallon for the whole trip.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah. [You can't get that out of any engine.] (ph) You keep the mileage per gallon pretty low.

THERAPIST: That's good. It's not a hybrid?

CLIENT: I don't know. It seems a little slow to start like when you take your foot off the brake, there's like a second pause and then it sort of goes. So maybe it's a hybrid.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I don't know though. It has to be to get that kind of mileage.

THERAPIST: That's really good.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I guess maybe on the highway you can get that.

CLIENT: Well, highways are supposed to be better and the city's really great.

THERAPIST: The thing is when they're idling they don't use gas I guess, or they try not to use gas. [00:07:01]

CLIENT: Right, yeah. Anyway, I just went up, I went up by Bar Harbor. My cousin Victoria lives up there. So I called her at midnight on Saturday, just about exactly midnight. I said, "I'm in Bar Harbor and I'd like to see you." And, you know, I don't She doesn't typically She gets annoyed with people for lots of things because she has a very high standard, but she's pretty good at sort of letting it go. (laughs) Or just -

THERAPIST: Tolerating?

CLIENT: Right, exactly. I could tell she wasn't too pleased to be called at midnight on a Saturday night. You know, I asked her to go out, "Let's go out on the town." She said, "I just got back from town." I said, "Well let's go out " [I didn't say this.] (ph) Eventually, we ended up going for pizza and I had already had pizza. [00:08:15]

And also, I mean, she has a boyfriend. So he was there. So I was calling at midnight and he said she should go when she left. But to her, I don't know, she seemed kind of annoyed and I imagine that's part of the reason. It's unusual that, you know, I have a claim on these women. Well, my blood I guess but, you know, I got her to leave her house at midnight on Saturday night and she had already been out.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: Still, I mean I talked to her a little bit. It was a decent conversation but I was exhausted. I couldn't sleep the night before. I had energy but nothing to do with it. It's just, I forget the night, but I don't think it was eventful. But I didn't make plans, I didn't do anything. I was at home. I probably should have gone out and done something because I just had energy and I wasn't [00:09:23]

Well anyway, I asked her out at midnight and we went to this pizza place. Maybe it was just my sleepless mind but I felt like, it hadn't occurred to me, but this wasn't (inaudible at 00:09:43). It was late. Well, I definitely felt like I was imposing but (coughs) I felt like it was kind of a [mindset of then drifting apart] (ph). Nothing on the surface would reveal that, it's just I sort of take that way.

THERAPIST: Mm. What was it like?

CLIENT: (coughs)

THERAPIST: What did you [So what's the deal with her?] (ph)

CLIENT: It was good. It was interesting.

THERAPIST: But she seemed kind of put upon?

CLIENT: Put upon? (laughs) Well we started off (coughs) by talking about the Vancouver trip I tried to organize but it didn't work out. Too many people were saying different things and no one could (inaudible at 00:10:42) and people didn't want to Vancouver with just a car (ph). And she proposed an alternative trip.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah.

CLIENT: To like Western Connecticut.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Which in my mind is like, as someone organizing something, it's like disrespectful or a pain in the ass when someone suggests something different. And she was one of the people I called before to talk about it.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And so that was how we started our conversation. I was like, "I had called you about it." And she was like, "And I said I couldn't go." (laughs) And I just left it at that. Because she said that she was coming. She couldn't go this one weekend I had planned it for but she would be home this other week. And then it turned out no one could go the weekend she wasn't going to be there but people could go the weekends that she was going to come back. [00:11:39]

So I naturally assumed, based on our conversation, that she would want to meet up with the rest of the cousins. But it turns out that wasn't necessarily the case. Or, I mean, she didn't want to go Vancouver at all and she just didn't say anything. You know? But that's how our conversation started.

We talked about things. We talked about church exploits. I described my work over there as like forming a cult around myself to her. (laughs)

THERAPIST: The cult of Brandon?

CLIENT: So, she (coughs) (inaudible at 00:12:14) You know, as I was describing my Like I felt like I was sort of getting a handle things. I mean, ironically, I was leaving my business behind. Like the bike work I should be doing and things that were helping (inaudible), things that felt like mine. I was just sort of leaving those behind and going back to visit my old cousin Victoria in the city where I was born.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: But as I was describing it I just, you know, I became a little self-conscious because I was describing, you know, I feel like I'm getting it together. Like I have, you know, I'm working at the bike shop during the week and I'm fixing bikes and I'm delivering some groceries. And I guess what I was trying to say, what's good about it is that it's mine.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, it feels good to have something that's yours. But it sounded like I was saying, to me and maybe to her, I don't know. But to me it sounded like I was saying, you know, I'm bound for glory, basically. And based on the paper facts of my current activity it doesn't seem very auspicious. But to me, I feel healthy and useful and like I'm learning, and I have lot more control over what I'm doing. [00:13:42]

THERAPIST: Maybe that's the glory.

CLIENT: It feels good. And she's from USC and she's dead sick of it. I mean she's Like everyone, the way she was saying it, is that everyone is always saying, "Oh, I'm going to do great things here at USC." And I think she will do great things. I think she will because she's a cohesive person with distinct principles that she sticks too.

But in her mind, I mean, it's possible that she could do nothing. I mean in scientific research you can study for, you know, seven years and at the end of it you find that your results are meaningless. Or, you know, what you wanted to happen didn't happen. So, uh, try something else. You know? (laughs) You've done all these tests.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: She'll find a way. I mean, she's smart enough but I understand where she's coming from generally. (inaudible at 00:14:48) First of all, you're in an institution for a certain amount of time you start to take a lot for granted. Like I jumped ship and it's pretty difficult to furnish the security and the stimulation of a certain kind that you receive going to a good school or working at a good school, research I guess. But, well, I don't know. I'm sure she'll see it through. (pause)

There were good moments in our conversation. I was sort of like self I felt guilty for bringing her out there but I wouldn't, you know, confess that to her. And there were moments of candor. It's also like our lives are sort of changing. I mean she said I don't know anything about this boyfriend. I guess I didn't ask about him. (inaudible at 00:16:04) (pause)

THERAPIST: Where do you see? Why do you see you guys diverging?

CLIENT: Well, (long pause) Hm. Well, it wasn't like She was quite tired. I could see that. I mean by the end she wasn't that tired, but she was tired. To me it could have been like a secret There could be some complicity between us in going out in the middle of the night for no reason. [00:17:40]

Or there could be a sense of obligation. You know, like we've had a bond and she feels obligated to come. And I sense that it's kind of the latter. You know I had this bond to tug on but it wasn't anything that was -

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:17:59). (pause)

THERAPIST: This boyfriend?

CLIENT: Oh, I don't know. I didn't think of it then. I didn't mean to dismiss that. But, yeah, the boyfriend is something that's different because she's taking her life in She has a boyfriend, I mean.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And she's sort of a prude. So, if she's dating anyone she's going to be pretty serious about them, I imagine.

THERAPIST: Okay. Yeah.

CLIENT: Also, part of our conversation was that she didn't feel like a real person. Or she felt a tension between being like a real person and being something great.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: And she said, at the end of it, for her being a real person is probably just going to mean starting a family. I didn't start that conversation either. Yeah, so I mean there's lots more risk (ph) for future meetings but there wasn't like a kind of electricity. [00:19:12]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I guess there hasn't been. I mean phone conversations have been fun. It's also the fact that I'm incredibly defensive. Like the last thing she said to me on the phone, we started an hour long conversation and she was saying, "You know, I got your voice-mail and I decided to call you back now because I'm going to be busy for the next few weeks, and I knew I wouldn't be able to call you in that time, so I thought I'd better call you back right away."

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: So that's really nice. But the only way I interpret that is that she won't call me for the next three weeks.

THERAPIST: Well yeah. Yeah, that's the other side of it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: We're not talking.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What about the electricity not being there? You know, that -

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: Did it kind of like bum you out? Were you hoping that it would be there and it wasn't? And do you feel she's holding back? What did it -

CLIENT: Um.

THERAPIST: Yeah, were you looking for electricity with her?

CLIENT: I don't know what I was looking for. [00:20:29]

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I was looking for something. I mean she was in Southern Oregon and it was good to see her once a year. I was looking for something. Yeah, and it wasn't there. It was painful but it wasn't there.

THERAPIST: And you were saying, was it like erotic excitement?

CLIENT: I mean she's What are you saying? She's like a Virgin Mary -

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: in my own personal constellation of things. Erotic?

THERAPIST: Or sexual tension. [00:21:20]

CLIENT: It's weird, I do talk to her about that stuff a lot more. But it's one of those wonderful things where it's not really a possibility. Yeah, it's not like that. But the, you know, an eagerness to commune with someone. [I expected that much.] (ph) Yeah, that seems good. But I mean, the other side of it is, interestingly, you know I've been planning this trip about going to Vancouver for a bit.

And I was thinking, you know, I was planning on going early Saturday morning actually but, I don't know what happened, I got a late start. So I ended up leaving around four or something, maybe five. I don't know when I left. It must have been (inaudible at 00:22:15). But actually I don't know how I got up there at midnight. I must have left at like eight.

Oh yeah, I stopped at home too. I stopped at home, my parents were out. My parents were out because they were going to Bar Harbor to pick up my sister and her boyfriend. So my parents were in the same city that night and they were staying in a hotel and actually (laughs)

THERAPIST: Glad you didn't run into them at the pizza place.

CLIENT: (laughs) Yeah. I was leaving with Victoria and she's like, "Well, your family is somewhere around here." I think they went to (inaudible at 00:22:50). And I didn't want to see them. Yeah, I mean I could have easily gone to my aunt's house and seen them and the rest of my (inaudible) and her boyfriend. So, yeah, that was I mean there were like ten people I know or, you know, ten people in my family and (inaudible).

Yeah I know you'd like for it to be something erotic. But I -

THERAPIST: No, well listen. You know, actually what I'm thinking of is What I'm suggesting is that, I guess I raised the erotic element because it's been there in the past somehow. Maybe it's not erotic, not to say erotic but sexual tension. What it made me think of is, one, is that I think you really wanted to have some sort of, you know, contact with a woman that feels like she really kind of gets it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you feel close with her. [00:23:57]

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And I think, you know, another way to feel And you guys talking about who you are really as opposed to How did she frame the kind of the -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: either real or success? Is that -

CLIENT: Yeah. Something like that. Just being great.

THERAPIST: Being great or real.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Well wanting to be close with her on the basis of realness. And I think one way, I was thinking about, I guess it made me think about your birthday and wanting a woman to come over and be with you. And I think it had a lot to do with, as you were sort of suggesting, about you being alone and wanting to commune with a woman.

Wanting somebody who would want to be there, not because of some sort of greatness but because of real body to body contact. Something real. Just like dancing. There's something about dancing that is frickin' real because it's bodies. [00:25:07]

CLIENT: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I think in a way I was just thinking, well, there's something about this cousin of yours that, you know, if sex is another way to sort of commune to be real with one another.

CLIENT: Right. (pause) Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think you really, really are on the search for that.

CLIENT: Yeah, right. (pause) There was a little bit. There's like little flashes. You know, it wouldn't be kind of a fiery light you can sit around but it was just like sparks. Sparks usually mean it's like something exciting, but in this case it's like a lighter running out of fluid.

THERAPIST: Hm. Moments of candor with this (inaudible at 00:26:21). Little sparks.

CLIENT: Yeah, we had a good parting (ph), I think. (pause) Oh yeah, I sort of confessed a pettiness to her as well. Like I'm getting all these petty, petty contests. Like whether it's for the car on the street or with a coworker, or with you maybe, or my roommate. It's all these pride contests or something. And I think when I smoked weed it sort of did away with that, maybe because I was so helpless mentally that I had no choice.

But I do feel like an inordinate amount of my focus is kind of like, "Am I better than this person or lesser, or how do I get the upper hand or show this person." I mean I got my flat tire trying to show a driver. (laughs) [00:27:33]

THERAPIST: Trying to what?

CLIENT: Teach the driver a lesson.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: But I guess I did but I still got a flat tire. I went from there, after that I sorted of texted Hermione (ph) and I said, you know I asked her if that guest bed in her apartment is still available. Because according to Victoria she and my sister work (ph) a lot in the town. I didn't want to see my sister and Charles, her boyfriend, because at our last meeting I felt like I've been closer to my sister and he was kind of helpless and I wanted to keep it that way. So I didn't want to screw that up in some way.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: Like I said, I was very tired and sleepless and I didn't feel connected to anybody or anything. I didn't feel healthy. But anyway, I just texted Hermione (ph) and I didn't get a response. So after waiting all day I just decided to I didn't decide to, I was just dead tired, so I just slept in the car. And it's weird because I know one guy who lives like, someone from the church who has a summer home about ten minutes way. [00:28:57]

And there was my parents staying in a hotel there. And there was my aunt's house where Victoria and her boyfriend were staying. You know, that's why I just slept in the car. I slept for about two and half hours so I didn't think of it as such. It was just like a break. I woke up with the sunrise and drove up to Vancouver for the jazz fest. I was a little tired.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: What did I do? (pause) Yeah. I visited a nice park and sort of laid down for a bit, walked around, looked at the people. Beautiful people in a different way. Like here, you know, you can't generalize people, but people may have beautiful bodies up here, but the way people are beautiful up there is the way they move. [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: There's like a grace in their compassion for themselves and that's really a stuck up -

THERAPIST: Grace in there, what?

CLIENT: I said in their compassion towards themselves. But that's really a stuck up, Amherst way of saying it. It's just like, it is, it's the grace of their movement that's beautiful.

THERAPIST: Hm. Compassion to themselves. In the sense that they care about their bodies?

CLIENT: No, that they don't care.

THERAPIST: They don't care.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: (laughs) You know, the jazz fest was alright but it was good music. I also, I climbed a mountain. I hit on this eighteen year old. She started walking at the same time I did. I asked how old she was, she was taken aback at first but then she was like eighteen. "Why do you ask?" And I was like, "I was just wondering." [00:31:03]

We had a good conversation and then she told me where her apartment was. And she said she was, she was quiet (ph). In Vancouver there's this like, from the mountain, there's this balcony that you can look out over the whole city. It's really beautiful. And she said, "You know, people don't know it but that's (inaudible at 00:31:28) from my apartment." [So I sort of had fun with being a stalker.] (ph)

At this point the logical course of action for me to take was to say, you know, ask her to show me her apartment. But instead I asked her if she wanted to go to the jazz festival, which she had already been too but I wasn't listening or I didn't remember. Which is forgivable the first time, but I don't think she liked that. (inaudible at 00:32:03) So it didn't pan out as it might have.

THERAPIST: Why did you want to go back to her Or did you want to go back to her place?

CLIENT: I didn't know what I wanted.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: You know, at this point I'm just talking to random people in the street, you know, hitting on attractive strangers. (laughs) And also seeing people mulling around, like I see a face and I'm like, "Oh, is that that person that I know?" Like I thought I saw, on the way down the mountain, I thought I saw my French teacher from tenth grade. Or I thought I saw someone who looked like Leonard Cohen. You know, all these Jewish people.

I'm not even joking, like every old man. Maybe they tried to (inaudible at 00:32:56).

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: I don't know if you know what I mean, but you're just walking in the city and someone looks sort of like someone you remember and you latch onto that and you think it might be them, and you look close and it's not them. It's a symptom of loneliness (ph).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I just laid down and took a rest on the top of the mountain. There's a nice field up there. I also went to mass. That was really good. The singing was good. There's a lot of like stand ups and down stuff that's like seems to be the point of the service.

THERAPIST: Catholics.

CLIENT: Yeah. Right. And there was some French too so I didn't get that much out of it. But the music was beautiful though.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: Yeah, everybody. I wound meeting a girl at the cafe and I asked her to read my horoscope because it was in French. And it said that I (inaudible at 00:34:06). I put too much I think it meant too much, it wasn't clear to me whether it meant too much or a lot of energy into my appearance. And so people would notice that. It would be apparent to people. And that's what she read.

THERAPIST: As opposed to the Vancouver people walking around.

CLIENT: People did look at me. Which I was grateful for. I needed attention -

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: but I don't know whether it was good or bad. Yeah I also, she was pissed. Yeah, I was (laughs) There was one woman that talked to me. It was really nice but I didn't have the energy to It's interesting because I'm in this mode where I'm thinking like, it's like you say, I'm looking for some contact with a woman, meaningful contact or possibly something possibly that's pretty deep. You know, that's just an easy way of saying that I'm looking for meaningful contact. [00:35:08]

THERAPIST: And Leonard Cohen too.

CLIENT: I guess. But this woman just sort of remarked that I was, I think she was making fun of me for eating a hot dog, some gay undertones to the joke. And we just stopped at like a street I passed by with like a hundred other people. But we were at the fountain (ph) and she was saying (laughs) (inaudible at 00:35:37) some noise I made. And she was saying, "Oh, you like that," or something, "from the noise you're making." I don't know.

And she had some flowers, so I said, "Where'd you get those flowers?" And she said, "Oh, I'm going to meet my mother. I haven't seen her in a long time. These are for her. So I'm very excited to be seeing my mother." And then she introduced herself and I was eating a hotdog, you know, and I was licking ketchup off my finger when she introduced herself. She gave me her hand and she said, "I'm Barbara." And she said, "How would I " When I shook it her hand it was too strong or something like it. So she introduced herself and then she ran away. She's like, "I've got to go. See ya." (laughs)

THERAPIST: Must've been the handshake.

CLIENT: Well, I don't know. No, it's playful though because I mean why would you introduce yourself and then run away? There's no reason to introduce yourself.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: It's just being like It's insulting and I liked it. And obviously -

THERAPIST: Well it sounds a little like you were flirting with this eighteen year old and stopping before asking her about the apartment. [00:36:56]

CLIENT: Well in what way?

THERAPIST: Oh just thinking about that it sounded like, I was imagining that she was reacting, she was having like, you know, the classic reaction formation. Where you do the opposite of what you want to do for fear of the way she -

CLIENT: Oh. Yeah.

THERAPIST: She runs away after flirting.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: "I'm going to see my mother." You know?

CLIENT: Yeah. Of course I, that's something like would do too or Christina. She would always say, "Oh, I have to talk to my Mom on the phone." (laughs) And then what's interesting about it, I'm pretty sure, I mean it seems obvious in retrospect, but her father is working for her mother. It's just another way of making fun of me or just being sort of ridiculous. I like that very much.

THERAPIST: Teasing.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: Yeah, she goes for the (inaudible at 00:37:55) and I sort of long for that sort of. I mean it was insulting and I liked that it was insulting. But I can't pick up on the things as quickly as I can sort of formulate plans and impulsively grope for what I need around it.

But, yeah, the reaction formation, that's useful. I think I do that a lot, a lot. I told her, I said, "Well, one of the reasons I came up here is I'm really tired and I need to rest. So, you know, if you want to do something in the next two hours just call the number." Yeah, and then I hit on some other young girl. I was crazed (ph).

Like just on the street these older women who were walking with us, an older woman and then there's this younger Asian girl. I started talking to the younger Asian girl. And then the older woman just called me some kind of asshole. Like she said I was an asshole or something. (laughs) [00:38:55]

THERAPIST: How come?

CLIENT: Because Oh, because I walked in front of them eventually. But I supposed I connected to the younger girl.

THERAPIST: Hm. Yeah.

CLIENT: It's like there's this accompanying sense of guilt.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah it's like when I leave Yeah, if I leave the scene of a, if I do that reaction formation, for instance, you know, and then I get on the road I might think there are cops behind me or something.

THERAPIST: Oh. I see.

CLIENT: Like a flash of light will seem like cops, for instance.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: It's some weird association.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like maybe because I got in trouble for it once when I was younger, maybe.

THERAPIST: I've done something to, something transgressive.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess the fear of, yeah. The fear of my vulnerability in transgressing, or fear of rejection or reaction might come sort of conflates with a general fear about, I don't know, a general fear for my safety. [00:40:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, so you've done something against the law.

CLIENT: Yeah, so that was just one day, Sunday, I stayed there.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: It was good. It was also But by the end of it too, Vancouver was just another city. I mean after hitting on all these women, that was like a very empty attraction to sexy people. It sort of became apparent to me that, you know, this is the city where I was born. I have some -

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: There's some kind of connection. Right?

THERAPIST: I didn't realize that.

CLIENT: There's some connection. Like I walk around, you know, that's the other thing. A lot of people, people were looking at me for some reason. And that happens there. There was also a woman, who was the first person I saw, and she waved at me and I don't know why. I don't know if that's common. But that's happened too. [00:41:00]

THERAPIST: Hm. And what did you make of it? The people looking at you and waving?

CLIENT: Well, I made of it, I figured it's sort of like when I was young and visiting cities for the first time, and I've seen other people do this as well getting on the subway. Like you think everyone is looking at you but it's really just a way of like buttressing your ego or like your idea of yourself. Like your identity in a sea of indifference. It's a way of stabilizing [who you are.] (ph)

So I think I was doing that. It was just like a different, more mature flavor of it. People were looking at me but, I mean who cares?

THERAPIST: I was thinking it seems to suggest or signify something about you being in Vancouver, your home. I don't know if had that kind of -

CLIENT: I was walking around a little bit, I walk kind of slow because I have a slight knee injury, but it's pretty slight. But I was also dressed in like red shorts and a jean shirt. But, you know, in the beginning I felt like it was sort of a homecoming. [00:42:23]

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: But by the end it felt sort of, I was feeling the same perception but it was sort of dry and the city didn't seem that much different than any other city. Though the culture is different and all that, just from my personal experience it's just, you know, a thread of [lonely venues] (ph).

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: So -

THERAPIST: But it sort of changed over the time you were there?

CLIENT: Over the course of the day. Yeah, I lost that opportunity with the girl, the eighteen year old.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: But (laughs) -

THERAPIST: Yeah, but no, these women kind of, for at least, and maybe the city as a whole kind of being kind of receptive to looking at you or receiving you in some way and then it shifted and became something else. [00:43:30]

CLIENT: Yeah, they were receptive at first. And I guess the day sort of did change for me. My perception, at least in my mind, to one of like being "other." I was just like "other."

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It could have been because I got tired or because I was you know, taking small rests throughout the day and trying to recover my sleep or something. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Huh. Yeah, this makes me kind of think about it's your motherland and you're not sure if you belong there or not. Or it welcomes you in and then it's dried up or something. It's exciting.

CLIENT: Are you trying to connect "motherland" to my mother? [00:44:34]

THERAPIST: Well, mother is a symbol of something.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Something that gives you a lot of like Well, talk about communion. It's the first person you commune, you know, it's the person you first kind of get close too in your whole life.

CLIENT: Mm.

THERAPIST: The first person you have the potential to connect with and want to connect with. That looks at you.

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: Gazes at you, welcomes you in. (pause)

CLIENT: I went back to Bar Harbor and I figured I'd try and get Hermione (ph) to come out and have a bite to eat with me. It's like I can't drive this straight six hours, especially on little sleep, two and a half hours of sleep or whatever. So I decided to stop in Bar Harbor and I figured we might go out somewhere. (laughs) There's one, there's one (pause) [00:45:43]

Okay, so there was one other girl I hit on successfully, but it didn't work because I was meeting Victoria that night. So things were going well and Have you watched Madmen?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Do you know in season four when he goes to that house he has in like Oregon?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: There's that woman. And then there's the woman's sister.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Then there's the woman's sister's daughter.

THERAPIST: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. Well this girl looked exactly like the woman's sister's daughter. So that's what I said. And so we started a conversation from there and things were going well. But then I've got to go to my meeting with Victoria and I was like, "Yeah, we're going to meet in front of this theater." And she's like, "What's going on at the theater." And I was like, "I'm meeting my cousin." And she's like, "Oh yeah, but what's going on there?" And I was like, "Well, that's our meeting place." (laughs)

At first she was trying to invite herself along but it became apparent that like all I cared about was meeting my cousin Victoria.

THERAPIST: Ah. I see. Okay. Yeah, it was kind of like saying, "That's for her and I meeting. You're not coming."

CLIENT: Yeah, and I didn't mean it that way, I just didn't think about it. [00:46:53]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Okay.

CLIENT: And she sort of like excused herself. Bar Harbor's pretty great, I have to say.

THERAPIST: How's that?

CLIENT: It seems like a wonderful place. [What was I going to say? But I would go back there.] (ph) I think What did I do? I texted her and I'm like, "Passing through Bar Harbor. Let me know if you want to meet for a few minutes." I also left a voice-mail. No response. And Kaitlyn is kind of that way. In fact that's one of the things that came up with Victoria is that, you know, she never returns anyone's calls.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: But still, I mean, to me that's I don't like that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: But I ended up, oh my God, yeah, it was beautiful right then. But there was just like this I don't know, this girl, I wasn't that attracted, but she was waiting on me. And I asked her the perfect place that she ever goes to eat. And she did, so I went there and that place was closed. So I just walked down the street got a nice sandwich. I was damn hungry. [00:48:08]

Then I went to this other place, where the girl who I met previously worked. But she worked earlier in the day. So it's still me like searching.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because she had said she I asked her basically what she was doing that day because, well, I thought I could take her up to the jazz festival. You know? I didn't really want to go alone. But she said she was working and where she works is the Pancake House. So I had gone up there but I decided to go to The Pancake House.

But, you know, obviously she was working in the morning so she wasn't still there. It wasn't obvious but it was probable. It was a very nice place. I just had like three buckets of coffee though because I needed it to stay awake while I was going to drive home.

And so I was turning over the whole trip in my mind. I mean this is, I previously, like a month I faced like two pretty big, disheartening failures in the previous month. That was a failure to get a birthday party together and a failure to organize the Vancouver trip with my cousins. And they were sort of like, it was sort of blows to my social ego conscious, whatever. [00:49:16]

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: So I was sort of turning this over and it did seem to me like I had sort of hollowed out my past. Like I had gone up there and I had spoken to Em (ph), but I didn't consider that a loss or any kind of closed door. But I hadn't visited the rest of my family. I had gone to my birth city and, you know, not [found it all] (ph) there.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And kind of actually find myself doing almost the same thing I had done four years ago, sort of wandering around the streets alone.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:49:55) I mean I'd like to turn that at some point.

THERAPIST: Well, yeah. But looking, on looking, looking for something that will take you more in and sustain it.

CLIENT: Yeah. And this woman, the woman at the Pancake House, like throughout the day these women are looking at me with something that ranges from interest to, I don't think I can say "desire," but a physical interest. And I don't capitalize on it, or I don't know how to, or I don't, I don't know, I don't take in their signals as well. [00:50:37]

THERAPIST: Yeah, no, and I think too that maybe some of it is a bit of some anxiety that arises when you want to, you know, take that last kind of leap.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean especially with the girl, which is the closest I got that weekend on the mountain. I don't even know that I want sex or where I want to take it. Because my own experience has just been terrible with anyone I've become intimate with.

THERAPIST: Hm.

CLIENT: Whether it be my mother or -

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I mean everyone except Victoria, I guess. You know, if I've ever become intimate with them it's just been horribly painful for me.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: And grotesque.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I left the Pancake Houseand, you know, twenty minutes later we were texting back saying like, "Are you still in Bar Harbor. I just left my home which is in (inaudible at 00:51:37)." So it's ten, ten-twenty-three on Sunday night. I'm tired as fuck. I just drank three coffees and I'm heading home, and she texts me right then. So I guess we're out of time.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but what were you going to say?

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: She texted you that or you texted her that?

CLIENT: She texted me.

THERAPIST: Oh, she was also drinking coffee.

CLIENT: No, no, I drank three cups of coffee. I was on my way home.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And she texts me saying she just left her You know, I left four messages over the course of late Saturday night and, you know, midnight Sunday. I mean, like seven o'clock Sunday. And, you know, twenty minutes after I leave she's texting me. I'm on the highway, I've had three cups of coffee, I'm tired as fuck. And she texts me something saying, "Are you still in Bar Harbor. I just left my home." [I don't know. In some third sense.] (ph)

THERAPIST: What did you say? You trailed off at the end there.

CLIENT: In some third sense. I think I was just -

THERAPIST: Oh, in some third sense. I didn't hear. [00:52:53]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well. So listen, it'll be the nineteenth when we meet next.

CLIENT: Wow.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: A fortnight.

THERAPIST: A fortnight, yes. Yeah.

CLIENT: Well, that's good. You're taking a week?

THERAPIST: I'm off starting the fourth and them I'm going through, I'm gone through the, back the fifteenth. Monday the fifteenth.

CLIENT: I see. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm gone a week and a half.

CLIENT: Cool.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Thank you. Next week, or this Friday, no.

THERAPIST: Next two Fridays, no, then the third Friday, yes.

CLIENT: Alright.

THERAPIST: Alright. Yeah. (pause)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:54:02)

THERAPIST: Thank you.

END TRANSCRIPT