TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Lay on the sofa. I never gave you this. Here you go. Thank you. (pause) Cool.

CLIENT: I reconnected with… there was this girl. I don’t remember. Oh yea, she took me home after I was playing songs or something. And then I was concerned because I was ambivalent about having sex with her or something. [00:01:01]

THERAPIST: This was just maybe like a month or so ago?

CLIENT: Yea. February, that’s right so a month ago. So I called her up on a lark. I thought of it because when I first went home with her, it was the day after like my… it seemed like things were going really well at work. And then… and my talents had been recognized. I was going to do well, whatever. Everyone liked me. And then it kind of fucked me up because I spent the night with her. Just like getting blue balls. (pause) And she just… yea. [00:02:05]

So I kind of went to work the next day kind of fucked up. And so recently I was thinking I don’t know I’m not enjoying my work very much. And I felt… whether or not it’s real I felt this sort of collapse of people supporting me. So I called her up again. I almost went straight from work to her house. But I called her up. And so we arranged to meet Wednesday which was yesterday. And so I went over. I brought her flowers because I didn’t want to… I felt kind of bad about how I left last time. And like also wouldn’t let her sleep and stuff because I was trying to fuck her and it wasn’t happening. (chuckling) [00:03:05]

And what else? Oh yea, we talked about (inaudible at 00:03:08) or something ridiculous. So I took up… I mean, I kept her away my (inaudible at 00:03:14). So I felt bad. So I got flowers. I got like Chinese food and brought it up there after asking her if that’s something she wanted to do. So that was good. The night was going swimmingly. It was nice to have a warm body really and a fold out, too. I just… yea, it was nice. (pause) And then I mean, the whole night. I mean, it’s whipping along. We drink a bottle of wine and I wanted to bring Netflix up to watch this particular movie I haven’t seen, The Apartment. Have you ever seen The Apartment?

THERAPIST: Which… what year?

CLIENT: Like 1970s or early 80s.

THERAPIST: Is that Jack Lemmon?

CLIENT: Yea, it is. [00:04:10]

THERAPIST: I saw it a long time ago.

CLIENT: I have never seen it. I just watched the…

THERAPIST: I think. I don’t know when I saw it. I was starting to like it.

CLIENT: I watched Glengarry Glen Ross or something. This movie, it’s really good. I didn’t even know about Jack Lemon until that movie. But I decided to… I wanted to see another movie but Netflix wouldn’t work because she had… we bought two or whatever Linux processor so it wouldn’t work on that computer for some reason. But it went all right.

Through the night it sort of progressed and I mean, she was sitting on my lap and dancing to whatever jazz music she put on Pandora. And I mean I was just having my way with her basically. [00:04:58] And it was going down on the couch. And she’s got nice nipples like they could get really erect and they were like sizable, too. I don’t think that happens often. Like you can hold them and also like really kind of… I don’t know. But I guess… (pause)

Gosh, I don’t know what I’m supposed to say. Yea, I guess I got ambivalent about it or I guess it wasn’t… I wasn’t sure if I wanted to go through with sex really. But I mean I’m in these positions where I like to stimulate a woman. And I’ve gotten her bra off and I’m not sure whether we’ve kissed at this point or not. [00:06:05] I think her pants are unzipped, too. All this stuff. And I’m just not sure I want to do it.

THERAPIST: Was there something about the nipples?

CLIENT: Well, I mean it’s an indicator for me of how aroused she is. What do you mean about them?

THERAPIST: Well, I was wondering how you felt about her nipples and what that… what did you… I mean, there was something. There’s a sense that she was very aroused and what else, though, to you? I don’t know. It was holding her nipples.

CLIENT: Well, I mean I can get through to her.

THERAPIST: That.

CLIENT: And she’s also… she’s open to me. I mean, she’s just lying on the couch with her breasts showing. (pause) [00:07:02] And have nice breasts. That’s all.

THERAPIST: I tell you what just came to mind to me about it is that I feel like there’s two lines of… there’s kind of two important threads that are going on in her mind. That starts I think with something very important, special about turning a woman on and having them be sexually aroused and have them want you. Something about being wanted and desired is very important. A feeling of like, “I can do this. This woman is into me. Look it. I’m making her aroused.” That’s very important.

And I thought about then something else enters in for you. Something else opens up for you and so to speak. [00:08:00] And I was thinking it has to do something with… that… and I guess that’s why I asked about the nipples was I was thinking about it in terms of like breasts can be sign of, yea, there’s the element of sexual arousal. But there’s also that element of nurturance.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Some… that it’s starting to mean… not that there’s anything kind of… or maybe it feels like a conflict between those two things for you. But that… some other element enters into the scene besides just the feeling of, “I like this feeling of this woman being aroused and interested and excited.” The breasts made me think about the common symbol of that being linked up with something that’s going to be nurturing, that’s going to be giving. [00:08:59]

CLIENT: Right. So yea, I need to impress people and have them want me. And the second thing is a nurturing thing, entering into the nurturing thing.

THERAPIST: Yea, but not just being special but having somebody really respond to your sexuality is very important to you. I mean, it’s important to everybody. But I think that’s on the line there for you. But I think this other element, it meant… started to mean more than that. It started to mean this element of something else. I don’t know if it was nurturance or some other element of also what you’re looking for in a woman. (pause)

CLIENT: Would that make me stop or ambivalent or…

THERAPIST: I think it makes… I think there’s a… it ends up being more of a conflict. Not that they have to stand in conflict but they just did. Well, again, that’s a hunch.

CLIENT: Right. So being needed and needing someone. [00:10:08]

THERAPIST: Yea. (pause)

CLIENT: I think at work it’s difficult for me. I mean, my bosses really liked me and they promised to do a little bit. But they have… they want to create like a real relationship with me. And it’s just difficult for me to sustain. It’s all like a performance. It’s… I just don’t… I’m not convinced I can keep anybody happy with me for any length of time. (pause)

THERAPIST: When do you think it starts to… why not? What happens? [00:11:02]

CLIENT: Well, I recognize they respect me for some reason. And then once you realize that they respect or they’re liking you is something that you value or maybe I should speak in first person but I’m not. Once you realize that they respect or they’re liking you with something you value, then you start kind of compensating for that and trying to… I mean, it’s not… I try to avoid it. But if you start to become sort of fake to try and maintain affections in a way, you become dependent on it.

THERAPIST: You really… I mean, there’s something about it. You become dependent on it. You really value it. It does have another level of significance to you.

CLIENT: Simple kindnesses, they obligate me with almost obsequious dependency or thankfulness or like the two sisters who played songs for. [00:12:11] And they were very hospitable. I’m just falling over myself thanking them or feeling sort of abject and in need of thanking or apologizing, maintaining or being worthy of someone.

With the girl last night, though, with Tatiana, it was… l mean I’d be kissing her and then I’d be like, oh, this is interesting. This is a new sensation. It’s just you’re feeling it as a different sort of dimension. And then I’d sort of step back and one side of a space of maybe 30 seconds, I’d have 15 seconds of, oh, this is interesting and 15 seconds of stepping out and saying, oh, this is kind of gross and obligating. [00:13:08] I just… it’s not like I say, OK, so…

THERAPIST: Well, tell me about the gross and obligating part. Where did…

CLIENT: (pause) I mean, somebody’s lips on there. (pause) I mean, you’re supposed to mouth somebody’s lips. I don’t know if it’s just… (pause) Sometimes I can communicate some things, sometimes I can’t. So it’s just… (pause) [00:14:01]

Like you’re writing an essay in school or you’re have a test. You’re taking the SATs. I know they have essays on those. You have to do an essay section. I didn’t but they have them now. And so the first essay kind of speaks to you. It’s something you care about. And then the second essay, you don’t really have a clear take on it. You just kind of… you have to fill in the words because it’s part of the assignment. So that’s what the kissing was like. It’s like sometimes you feel something or you can go on, you can catch an impulse or an emotion or you can convey something or receive something. And sometimes it’s just like what the fuck is this? That’s the best way I can describe it, I guess.

THERAPIST: Sometimes it’ll feel like… there are times where the kissing felt like writing the first essay.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: And then sometimes it’ll feel like writing the second essay. [00:15:01]

CLIENT: Yea. And it could be in the same kiss. It’s just…

THERAPIST: Yea, no, no, right.

CLIENT: …when the kiss is over. (pause)

THERAPIST: Yea, the shift being… this second part being if (inaudible at 00:15:17). What did you say? That lips are kind of gross.

CLIENT: I don’t know. You have to bring them out a little. Yea, like they’re open and they’re waiting for something, right? There are teeth. Just barely there’s a little behind them and they’re just waiting for some kind of message and you don’t have a message. And all you see is these lips waiting there. (pause) (phone beeping) [00:15:54]

Hello. (listens) Yes. (listens) Hi, Diego. Yea. (listens) Yea, he’s under Larry so there’s a duplicate entry. But I dealt with him most recently with you probably Monday. Oh, just look under… if you don’t mind, you could look under Larry Fields which is his actual name and… (listens) So they showed up today? They’re going through with it? (listens) It’ll… (listens) And Diego, there’s… I have a file for them in my desk drawer, the top drawer if you want. And it’ll have those numbers you wrote down. (listens) Yea, I think you gave them three options. (listens) Yea, it should be… I have stack of blue folders in my top drawer. Feel free to open it. It should be near the top under… (listens) He has to put me on hold. [00:17:41]

THERAPIST: Potential sale. Is that the…

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: …kind of potential sale. But mouth and teeth and just how did you put it, waiting there?

CLIENT: Yea, waiting there just waiting for a message, to receive a message. [00:18:03]

THERAPIST: To receive a message. (pause)

CLIENT: And I… (pause) She was ready. I mean, she changed into this black silk nightgown. She was totally naked. Really soft. [00:19:02] (pause) She smelled good and all that stuff. I decided we should go into her room and watch a movie and I think she was surprised when I actually started watching the movie. I was interested in the movie. And I sort of turned back to her and I’m wavering on this fence. What do I hope to gain? What do I stand to lose? And I guess there’s a risk involved because I’m not sure I’ll perform well or make her happy. Or I mean, I have no faith that I’ll make myself happy, I guess. I just have like a drive in my balls to fuck this woman and not much... (pause) Anyway, eventually she kind of closed down. I mean, we had a lot of physical contact throughout the evening. [00:20:03] (pause)

THERAPIST: Yet you were on the fence, though, or wavering back again. (pause) (phone beeping)

CLIENT: I’m sorry. Hey Diego. (listens) Hello? Hi Diego. (listens) Oh, wonderful. So everything is all set? (listens) So should I come in or what? (listens) Thanks. (pause) I still haven’t sold my car. Sorry. [00:21:43]

THERAPIST: That’s all right, man.

CLIENT: [I think I’m fired] (ph) the other day at work, too. So I don’t like that.

THERAPIST: Well, when I’m…

CLIENT: This very person we’re talking about now we sort of went through a deal. The guy who crashed his car seemed interested and then when we walked through the deal, walked through the figures and the manager, turned him over to the manager to negotiate price, manager said goodbye. [00:22:19] And I wanted to keep him there over at the desk. Well, why? What did you think about et cetera, et cetera? Why do you need to think? Why do this? Why do this?

And what was I going to say? That wasn’t good because the manager is supposed to have the last word or something. It doesn’t matter. I mean, I’m not sure why I got in trouble. For me it’s always just my personality that gets me in trouble if I just… or it’s my pride or in some way or something. It’s not anything in particular. It’s just… I mean, they’ll say it’s something but it’s actually just I behave… (pause)

THERAPIST: It’s something, too, about him having like the kind of the chain of command kind of thing. [00:23:03] And how you feel in that role and what you do.

CLIENT: Yea. And I’ve become… I just sit there. I laugh at people’s jokes if they’re above me. I just sit there and don’t know what to do. Just can’t… the only time I’m free to speak to a customer but you’re not really free. You have to steer them in a certain direction. And I resent this intrusion. I really do because I mean I’ve worked maybe ten straight days. The last day off I’ve had was the Sunday before this.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Most days it’s at least nine hours. (pause) [00:24:01] I’m just sitting there. Yea, later in the night… I mean, so she had her robe on which to me I mean that means you’re ready to fuck. You put on a silk robe on. You have nothing on underneath, right? You change into it.

THERAPIST: It sounds…

CLIENT: You’re ready to go.

THERAPIST: …like it.

CLIENT: But I’m just watching the movie and she’s sort of leaning over and looking at me, et cetera. I don’t know. I just… what do I gain? I’m tired.

THERAPIST: What was… yea, tell me more though about what was happening for you at the time. She… as you say, like this… there’s this kind of sign that she wants to have sex. She wants to sleep with you.

CLIENT: What was I thinking?

THERAPIST: Yea, what was that… what was all happening for you?

CLIENT: We went to the threshold to her bedroom. I sort of… it’s going really nice. It’s really nice but then where do you go, I guess? This isn’t what I was feeling. I’m just reflecting on it. I’m like OK. I mean, where do you go? [00:25:07] Where do you go? I mean, I’d be happy to… well, I don’t know if that’s true. I really enjoy undressing a woman and sort of getting at her sexuality a lot more than having sex, I think, although I’m not sure about that. I just…

THERAPIST: Well, it is one element, though. That’s the thing that it sounds like there’s something that really feels important, enhancing, in some way good about turning on a woman, having her be aroused by you. (pause) But then you’re sort of saying it’s… but sex to you, like for everybody, is not just that to you either. [00:26:02] There’s the other elements that are in for you. One of them being like, “What does the woman want from me? What is she expecting?” I don’t know if that’s… that’s how I get the… that’s what I get the impression from the lips and the, “What is she looking for from me?”

CLIENT: Yea. Because I mean that’s why probably younger girls are so attracted to me and maybe other people, too. But to me I can speak of the fact that I don’t think they have clear structures about how they want things done. Whereas this person… (pause) I don’t know. It’s so weird. I mean, I feel the pressure to perform and have sex with her. And then I don’t want to. [00:27:01] (chuckling)

And then she sort of… she accepts that, I think. I mean my reading of it and then I just… I’m stuck with like testosterone or sperm or whatever. I just want to have sex with her. I just want to. Actually that’s not even true. The thing is I just want to manipulate her. I want to have her and (inaudible at 00:27:26) just under my physical control. The sex doesn’t even matter. It’s just I want her under my physical control and I couldn’t do it. And it’s frustrating because I feel impotent and powerless. I couldn’t do it. But it’s even with the younger women. I’ve had those situations where they’re kind of in bed with me and I’m supposed to do something. And I don’t know what I want to do or what I’m supposed to do whether I want to do it. [00:28:10]

I don’t know. (pause) It made me angry, though. I mean, because after tonight she sort of said like… she goes back to this thing. She’s like, “Oh, I should’ve made my intentions clear.” What does that mean? Well, I mean, you probably expected to have sex with me or whatever. I mean, what bullshit is this?

THERAPIST: What did she… she said that?

CLIENT: She said that. She’s saying like that she never intended to have sex with me and that she was establishing a boundary. And that I had run into that boundary and sort of… and she had outwilled me in some way. [00:29:01] I mean, there’s an element of truth because after she sort of… or it’s true because I’m just in bed with her and I’m lying there. And I can’t go to sleep because there’s like a naked and willing woman beside me. So I keep going for the pussy but she shuts it down. She just shuts it down. So it’s that… but I mean, that’s after she… we go through this whole courtship and she gets undressed and she cleans all the wash right off her bed and stuff. It’s just ridiculous.

THERAPIST: Well, what was ridiculous?

CLIENT: You probably want me to talk about the lingerie but it’s ridiculous that she pretends that she didn’t want to get fucked. That that’s like not exactly what she wanted.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see.

CLIENT: I mean, I probably sound like… well, what do you call those people, masochists? Just like she wanted it no matter what she said but I mean…

THERAPIST: No, no. [00:30:11] I hear it, too. I think from what I could tell it sounds like she… at that moment maybe she didn’t experience it as like, “I want to have sex.” More that, “I want to be seduced or something like that. I want him…” She wanted you to kind of lead her down that next step. And she wasn’t going to be the initiator. She wanted… she looked to you.

CLIENT: That’s right.

THERAPIST: And then you… but what’s interesting I think is that maybe that was...

CLIENT: I balked there.

THERAPIST: That’s where you balk.

CLIENT: But maybe that’s where…

THERAPIST: Well, I was going to say that’s where the… that’s where some other element comes into play for you. [00:31:01]

CLIENT: Yea, that’s it. I mean, that’s how I… I think you’re right on when you say… and keep talking if you have more but when you say I need people to want me or admire me or something like that. And then beyond that I just… I expect to be carried or something. I don’t really… (pause) That’s since I was a kid, I’ve relied on that. I used to say in school if I just work hard for the first two months or something in school, I can just coast the rest of the time just on reputation. (pause)

THERAPIST: That’s important. It’s kind of like what you’re sort of saying about the dealership in some way, too. You kind of… you get their respect. You feel like you’ve gotten it and then something else… then it starts to feel like, “I have to kind of keep going.” [00:32:01] (pause) Well, what I’m thinking just to go back to that the other thoughts that I do have is that I think one of it is when things start to change, what opens up is you’ve gotten to this place with this woman. You feel up to that point like everything is kind of going in the right direction. But then… she then looks to you, “Make this final move if you want it.” But to turns to you. A couple things it sounds like it becomes. One is like, “Am I going to be able to do it? How satisfying will I be in some way and to have some other way?”

CLIENT: Am I going to be able to do it? Yea.

THERAPIST: But that also sounds like it’s more than just that, too. It’s, “What is she going to want from me? I want to be carried, too.” [00:33:09] (pause) “I want to be just… somehow I don’t want this just to be a performance either. I want it to be something else.” Not that that’s… it’s just a performance but you wanted something else, too. How did you put it? “I want to be carried, too.” Is that what you said?

CLIENT: Carried. Yea, that is what I said. (pause) What really pissed me off, I guess, is… and really part of the evening which was really enjoyable. I mean, she… we’re kind of getting there and then she suggested I get… I play some songs or something. [00:34:04]

I didn’t bring a guitar because I came from work. But there was a guitar downstairs and there’s this nice old lady that lives downstairs. And so she said, “Oh well, we got to go get the guitar. Why don’t you come and play some songs?” I said, “Oh, fuck it. You get it. Great.” A little nicer but not that much. And I kind of changed my mind and I just decided to put my shirt on and go downstairs and so I played for two ladies down there and Tatiana.

And they’re actually mother and daughter. The other one knew some folk songs so I had her play two songs and I played two songs and then I went upstairs. And she had me bring the guitar up. I said, “I don’t want to play more songs.” She said, “Oh, you should bring the guitar up.” The ladies are like, “Oh, you didn’t hear. She said she wants you to play more songs.” I said, “OK, whatever.” So I brought the guitar up. But to me, I mean, that was just a way of disguising the fact that we’re going to have sex. Bring the guitar up or something like that. And from her landladies downstairs (inaudible at 0:35:14).

But then at the end of the evening as I was leaving, or this morning I mean, I went to take the guitar because I wanted to bring it back to the ladies. She said, “No, no. Don’t bring it down. I’ll bring it. Don’t bring down.” I mean, these women had loved my singing. I sang beautiful songs to them. But I wasn’t permitted to say goodbye to them or give the guitar back. It’s like some sort of show piece to be flaunted and then cut off from people. I said goodbye to them just to spite her. But not just to spite her, because I wanted to. [00:36:00]

But it’s obvious. Just like significant embarrassment and this woman’s mind… I don’t know about women in general. But this woman’s mind about sex and wanting sex with a woman. It’s just… and I’m not going to take on the psychological baggage. I just… I’m not going to assume the burden of someone else wanting something.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: I don’t like this person that much. She’s got nice tits. It was fun hearing her talk. But then my downside is that I… and I’m just… this doesn’t make any coherent sense so I hope you can help me. But I get into bed with a person and I think I’m in that ambivalent state and then the lights go off and they’re like half sleeping. I just want to have sex with them. I want to push it and push the threshold. [00:37:00] Or like not have sex. What I said, I just want to manipulate them. I want to be able to reach that physically.

THERAPIST: What do you think you wanted when you wanted to start watching the movie? What did you… were you aware of wanting anything from her? (pause) I guess in a way were you wanting her to seduce you or to show some interest in you? To be the one like to initiate it in any way? (pause)

CLIENT: I mean, she had her hands all over me. [00:38:01] I just wanted a blow job, I guess. I mean, that’s what I want. Like a blow job will set me off. But without that I just… I don’t know how to ask for one either. I don’t think it’s very often successful. But I mean, if I get a blow job, I mean, that establishes my sort of dominance or something. That I can just go from there. But I mean, also I suppose every woman who gets through a blow job is probably 100% wants sex. No, that’s not true. But they definitely want sex, though.

THERAPIST: Their part of foreplay, that kind of thing?

CLIENT: Yea, plus in some ways like a blow job is more than vaginal sex. It’s like an intimate act. [00:39:05] (pause) I was just quite cross. I mean, I didn’t show it but to deal with this. I had my…

THERAPIST: Well, it just sounds like it’s dense with a lot of different feelings and meanings to you. That’s certainly come to the fore in those kind of moments and you described it before, those critical moments where it’s like, “Now here’s the next step.” And it’s bringing up a lot in terms of, I think, her desire, her will. I mean, those kind of, “I don’t want to be responsible for…” I was thinking in some way that it seemed to me like up until that point you were really feeling like a lot of the things were exactly what you wanted. [00:40:19] You’re feeling like she wants… she’s being seduced. She feels turned on. I was just thinking like in some way… and maybe I’m wrong about this but in some way, what does she want outside of the performance piece of it as you put it.

CLIENT: That… I don’t know if that was weighing on me. I know what you mean in terms of a relationship or I think that…

THERAPIST: Maybe that wasn’t there as much as I’m thinking.

CLIENT: I don’t think that was in my head. I could be wrong but it could be in the subconscious for one thing. Just part of a fear or ambivalence about it I see generally. [00:41:07] But what would she want? Yea. No, that was there. It’s like, what would you want physically? And just the idea of sort of corralling a woman, like sticking my dick in her is kind of… or this woman, I mean, is kind of a little awkward itself logistically or it just seems it’s like an awkward transition. If we had stayed on the couch, that’s one thing but there’s not that much room there. It’s just I guess there’s a fear of rejection at that point, too. Because the last time I was with her, she shut me down in the same sort of way. So there’s that. [00:42:01] I’m just a guy with my dick hanging out and I need this woman to say, “OK, you can shove it in me,” even though I know she wants it.

THERAPIST: But there’s the thing, right, is that she kind of all but says it. And she’s sort of saying to you, though, “You got to take it. You still got to take it.”

CLIENT: Right, exactly.

THERAPIST: And then something stops you there.

CLIENT: That’s right. It was weird, too. In the middle of the night I started thinking of her as like a truck, like I trapped her into like as in that limited space between sleep and something about my work on the job and it sort of melted. That she was like some vehicle. She was like a truck I had to sell or something.

THERAPIST: What are you… yes, what about the vehicle? You had to sell it to somebody or…

CLIENT: (chuckling) I just had to sell a truck and to achieve the truck.

THERAPIST: You had to what the truck? [00:43:01]

CLIENT: Achieve the truck. It was kind of a dream type of thing. It didn’t make any… it doesn’t fit into space. It’s just a sensation to sell a truck.

THERAPIST: To sell a truck.

CLIENT: I think I got in trouble, too, because I mean, I hung up on this guy. He told me that he wanted to put me on hold at my work. He’s my supervisor and it’s just very hard. I mean, you’re brought in expecting one thing then it’s like on Star Wars. It’s this deal is getting worse all the time, the second movie. Things just keep changing and they keep you pepped up and I mean the deal gets worse and worse.

THERAPIST: Yea, what have you noticed? What’s been…

CLIENT: Well, I was brought into it expecting get on the showroom floor pretty quickly. [00:44:02] I even asked that and the guy said, “Oh yea, you’ll get on three or four days. You’ll need to be here a week of training.” I got out in two weeks because they liked me so much but it wasn’t what I expected. And then things like, I mean, I make a deal with one guy. He says, “All right, you give me a walk around on five of these cars and I’ll never put another salesman on your deal again.” So if I bring a customer in… this has happened to me. I call a customer, call a customer, call a customer. I call a hundred customers and one comes in after I call him three times and he asks for me, right? And then they pass that person onto somebody else.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: And so then…

THERAPIST: And you… were you there?

CLIENT: I was there. It’s just unacceptable because they don’t trust me to make a sale yet because I haven’t made one.

THERAPIST: Oh, that’s the reason they give? [00:45:00]

CLIENT: I don’t think they even say it like that. The way they said it last time was, “Well, this guy is Corvette certified. In order to sell a Corvette, you need to have the college.” That was probably because he’s not Corvette certified. I know because when I asked the guy, his eyes looked away. He’s lying so…

THERAPIST: Corvette certified.

CLIENT: I mean that’s bullshit. So in order to get out of that making friends with the… my boss’s boss’s boss and I just said, “I researched for this guy. I got this guy in. Why wasn’t I talking to him?” And he said, “You show me five cars with a good walk around I won’t ever do that ever again or I won’t let that happen.” He would never do that anyway but my boss would be the guy. And then I get in trouble the next day for some reason I don’t understand. [00:45:51]

And my boss sort of rephrases the deal and sort of puts it as some sort of thing I didn’t live up to like, “I know Jim has spoken to you. I’m telling you you’re not the center of the dealership. And I know that Brian the other day he was talking to you. And he said that once you showed five cars and walk around, you could approach customers. Isn’t that right?” And I didn’t answer. I just sort of curled my lips. He said, “Well, I’m going to answer for you. That’s right.” But that wasn’t the deal. I mean, that wasn’t what we agreed to.

THERAPIST: What does that mean, by the way, showing five cars?

CLIENT: It means I walk around and show the features on the cars.

THERAPIST: So like he gets an idea of, hey, how do you do it?

CLIENT: Yea, the walk around. It’s part of leading up to a demonstration ride. But I just I feel beset. I spent a lot of time on this. This morning I just felt… I cringed at the thought of I would have to work or saying that I don’t, at least in the morning. [00:47:06] It’s a showroom with a car and you’re supposed to sell people cars. But it’s the same ambivalence I get. I’m supposed to… I’m happy to talk to people and get to know them, get to know their needs. But I’m supposed to sell this person a car and that’s what I’m doing. And I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Make the sale. Sell the truck.

CLIENT: (chuckling) Right.

THERAPIST: That’s right.

CLIENT: I’m happy to get to know them.

THERAPIST: Sell the truck. Yea, there’s something kind of gratifying about the idea of like the lead up to it. And then something else, something just changes when it’s like you’re actually going to put them in the car.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: I don’t think that’s changed. So by the way, what do they have you do if you’re not allowed to sell?

CLIENT: I just sit there. And I was allowed to approach people. I approached people for weeks but it takes they say $500 to bring each person into a dealership. So if you don’t sell them, then a dealership is losing money in a sense. [00:48:06] They’re losing prospective business then. So I bring through probably 20 customers without selling a car. So after that they… it’s a (inaudible at 0:48:14) system the same. But the way they said it was, “You know you’re not supposed to approach customers,” as if it had always been true. But I mean, it’s just because I didn’t sell the cars. If you perform, you can make your own rules. But if you don’t, they don’t let you.

THERAPIST: Oh, right. I see. That makes a lot more sense. Yea, if you’re selling a car, what do they care about the rules? It’s you’re selling.

CLIENT: But if you’re not, they need to make up something.

THERAPIST: Then they’ll make them up.

CLIENT: So that it works. In case this works.

THERAPIST: Did they give you… how long does it take people to kind of get their bearings when they’re selling cars?

CLIENT: Well, they’ve told me some guys took six months. They just sat around for six months and didn’t talk to anybody. But I expect three months. [00:49:05]

THERAPIST: It takes some time.

CLIENT: I’m really beset though. I mean, things like talking to that… being left out, talking to those two neighbors downstairs. And when I go home I went home and there were three people sitting down to dinner. And one of them kept suggesting these activities for me to do alone which she’d say, “Oh, Brandon the kitchen is ready for you,” or, “Oh Brandon, the New York Times is in.” The only thing I want is to sit and eat with them after being alone at work all day trying to sell, trying to give people a car. (pause)

THERAPIST: Wanting some companionship. [00:50:03]

CLIENT: And I don’t know. I turned my back on this girl. I mean, she would talk to me about something. “Oh, we could… let’s be friends or we need to take sex off the table or something and…”

THERAPIST: That was… Tatiana was saying that?

CLIENT: I just turned my back on her. I can’t stand this. I mean, she needs to have control over everything and this idea that she shut me out of sex and it was her will to not have sex with me. Maybe true, maybe not but I just can’t stand it.

THERAPIST: Well, listen. I think we need to unpack that a little bit more to understand that. I think there’s more to know about what happens in these critical junctures. [00:50:52]

CLIENT: This room is just so desolate. It comes back to me with that call from that guy. It’s just a desolate place. It’s sort of earing music blaring over the speakers. The car is sitting there in the same place every day. Balloons everywhere.

THERAPIST: Listen, so we won’t meet next week. I’m back in two weeks.

CLIENT: Same time?

THERAPIST: Same time, yea.

END TRANSCRIPT