TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: You are liking it? You like snow?

CLIENT: It's fun but I still don't want a lot. (inaudible) it don't know how to snow, it's like it can't make up its mind if it's going to snow. It's great.

THERAPIST: This is, this is not ambiguous.

CLIENT: Yeah. I never pay attention to these things, so I only hear about them from other people. Like Sandy or whatever, hurricane Sandy.

THERAPIST: Oh you mean like if something's coming, you won't hear about it until somebody mentions it.

CLIENT: Or if they are getting water and stuff.

(pause from [00:00:41] to [00:01:06])

So when I worked for this lady delivering flowers, that was a confusing time for me. Or I should say it was a very happy time, and then it was very suddenly terrible. Like in a work area, I was everything that she needed. It gave me a lot of pleasure to do, like a very menial job perfectly. Or to, I don't know if I ever said this, to fill her every need. I don't know. (pause) That was, it was around this time of year that I lost that job, or ended that job. It was around this time of year that [00:02:11]

I tried to confront Christina and get like an assessment of what happened. And subsequently lost a lot of sleep. Yet again. Sort of hitting on the suspicion that Cleo (ph) and my roommate started carrying on. But at the florist, like, I did the job really well. I've heard this from other people from that age, like around 23 or at least one guy who was my age, like he put himself wholeheartedly into the job, but the system was kind of broken. But he still just wanted to serve the customer as well as possible, do his best. And ended up feeling a little bit fractured, like.

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: Again, it's just one in a series of emasculating experiences. Because I had very warm and fuzzy relationship with my boss, like she was attractive, middle-aged, maybe about 35, (inaudible), very thin I think she was bulimic or something. But, she'd like, you know she would scratch my back, and she would ask me out to like, I'm just trying to prove myself, but she asked me out to like a bar or something.

THERAPIST: She was solicitous sometimes.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. But I, after I sort of smiled at the invitation when she asked me out. Well, it seems she was between boyfriends and you know what she was looking for.

THERAPIST: How old were you at the time?

CLIENT: 22 or 23. No I must have been 21 when I started, through like 23. And after that, the invitation, what I thought to be a sort of very platonic, happy environment like the flower girl and I had a good relationship, and the owner too. It was a source of satisfaction to me, if not much wealth. To do a good job both for her sake and for the sake of the customers. But she, sort of like, the construction business owner came in to the picture. You know, I have no idea what happened with her exactly, speaking of my employer. But things sort of changed. I don't know if he didn't like having me around. Or if he was maybe bankrolling the shop. [00:05:26]

THERAPIST: But he was somehow involved in the business too?

CLIENT: Maybe. It's amazing the place was running, it was like a whorehouse. (pause) Like, she ran it very haphazardly, which was nice. (pause) I like that you know, like you have a less than qualified person, who wants to do something really well. Is very enthusiastic about what they are doing. It's not a lot worse for and employee than someone who has no idea what they are doing. Especially a young employee. Because having that experience that (mark down rates well) (ph). There was this woman who, my God, I mean, she invited me over from the art gallery to like fix her yard or she had some like dirt in her yard. She just wanted me to like, shovel it into wheelbarrows and dump it in the river. But, that was frozen, it was like frozen mud, it was hard. The point is, her house was in complete disarray. Her kid was like running around naked. They were like, there were like chandeliers on the couches and like here, like the most random shit you could imagine was just strewed all over the house. [00:06:55]

Like you'd have to clear off, like I can't imagine some of the objects. Like Indian totem, and like a wooden chest and like shards of glass off the table so you could eat. But, I mean, but by that token, I got to take on a lot of responsibilities at the art gallery. Like I get to deal with the artists directly, and they say like I want this here, I'd say, you want this here. They'd sort of negotiate with me on how to do that. Do errands, help repaint the art gallery, just like, what needed to be done. Now there is a sort of a need left by a disorganized person. And, but you get someone, my second time back, and this guy, he was trained in curation I guess, and he had like aspirations for the [inaudible] program, he's just like, made completely rigid. Like what the person's function, and the protocol for things. I mean I still did like, good work, like I saved the most expensive exhibit that was ever there from humidity damage. Because I actually checked like this thing that he asked people to. This humidity and some other air quality detector. There was some other measurement I checked, turns out they were fluctuating because there was this huge, ventilation system that, instead of constantly streaming in air, it would just like dip down to a certain humidity. Then it would like bust out and pump like all this air and moisture into the gallery. [00:08:41]

And then shut off for like another 90 minutes.

THERAPIST: That was about the quality of the painting, the integrity of the paintings?

CLIENT: Right. And no one else, no one else happened to be checking that, but I did. So that was a good thing that I did. But you know, and I try to put it on the resume, and I checked with the guy, and he was like, why don't you say this instead. You know, why don't you say, and he just like, castrates the whole thing. I was like, I was like, you are the servant of the gallery administrator. You observed, you followed his instructions on safety stuff. And it was like, okay.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Thanks man. But yeah, everything I ended up doing, like working in Excel and fixing a mailing list, like 3000 names and matching the right addresses to the right names. [00:09:48]

THERAPIST: And he kind of undermined, he undermined kind of your, you had a lot more responsibility and a lot of sense of, hey, you've got a significant function at the gallery, to kind of putting you in your place or something.

CLIENT: Yeah

THERAPIST: Is that kind of similar to the construction guy in some ways?

CLIENT: It's probably what he wanted, but we never communicated directly. Like he was around and I was around, and one time after I wrote a letter to my boss this was a strange letter. She like secretly told me in like strong terms that we're very incongruous with our previous rapport She said, I don't want you going in the back room anymore, which is like where the computer is and the billing is, and where her boyfriend, the millionaire construction business owner sat during lunch. I was like, okay. [00:10:58]

THERAPIST: I see, yeah. But even there, there was the quality of you being put in your place in some way. Some sort of (chuckle)

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, she said that, like a, I think I told you a couple of meetings ago, this one incident where she like, she invited me back after 5:00 to help put up Christmas decorations. I was fine with it because I gave myself to the needs of the business. So I didn't have any like, I wasn't like, this isn't my job. Or you know this, this isn't my responsibility. I never said that sort of thing. I just went to help her. And then somebody, my queue to things was to hold the ladder while she put up Christmas decorations or something like that. Hen I came in the other, the flower girl and the owner, they were both very coquettish And so, what was unusual, was that, she was asking like at the end, is this okay, are you sure you are alright with this. And I found nothing wrong with it. But then I

THERAPIST: Holding the ladder? [00:12:09]

CLIENT: Yeah, or coming in late.

THERAPIST: Oh, I see, okay.

CLIENT: I usually went home at 3:00. Coming back in to hold the ladder, is this alright. I didn't see anything wrong with it. But I came to realize that I was some sort of pawn in the game that involved the boyfriend and maybe making the boyfriend jealous. And the boyfriend was supposed to hold the ladder with her, and he wouldn't, so she called me in. I don't know. But, because of her queries and whether it was alright, I sort of got upset, and said something like, you know this, this is not really right, and the tones that you and the flower girl have used have kind of made me uncomfortable. Then after that, it was very different.

THERAPIST: It wasn't until she said, she started to ask you what it was like for, that

CLIENT: Yeah, I didn't register much. I will say, when I was holding the ladder, I was thinking, man, I you know, I should probably, I think I had just like jacked off or something, maybe even it wasn't the night before, it had been like even an hour before. And so I had no real drive, but I remember thinking when I was holding the ladder, like I should probably be taking advantage of the situation. Because I was sexually attracted to my employer. [00:13:36]

THERAPIST: How close was she on the ladder?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: Look, I guess I have this image that she may have been way up on a ladder, but she may have been very close if you were holding the ladder.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean it was a ladder about the size of that bookcase.

THERAPIST: And she was kind of right in front of you.

CLIENT: Yeah it was kind of just like this.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay, yeah.

CLIENT: I didn't like hold it and just stare up at her ass crack or anything. I think I was just holding it from the side which is probably not even the way you are supposed to hold it. But still. We were sort of drawn while, whatever, hanging the decorations and help her pretend to be, or whatever. But after wards I did think like, you know I didn't really shouldn't have jacked off, or I wish I had more gamesmen, like sexual gamesmanship I guess. And so I think, once I realize that I was also being brought into some sort of harmless, tool to excite her boyfriends jealousy. Or that I was some sort of tool in some sense, that combined with my own sense, it sort of enraged me. [00:14:56]

THERAPIST: Not wanted to be used in that way. Not wanting to be a pawn. As you were saying.

CLIENT: I think I don't mind being a pawn if it's like out in the open. If I have a very important purpose. I guess it's the, sort of private, or lack of respect sort of clears me. Like with Mandyson and David, it wouldn't bother me, because like they're intimate. Like I said, really this is how I explained it to myself, but it's the, it's the lack of respect, for me. Like the, the game playing is one, the game, the, as if it's some way to, I don't know, I don't know w hat it is. Or I did, but I can't bring it back.

THERAPIST: What would the, just with the whole Cleo (ph) situation, the situation at the flower shop, there's a lot of covert kind of things happening. They kind of covert, I don't know if it's a cat and mouse game exactly But there is some sort of cageyness about it all. And, I was thinking in some way that you, that in some way, at least I can imagine one feeling a little bit exploited by one's own interest. One's own kind of, you know, whether it was a sexual attraction, a kind of generosity that you want. Kind of like wanting to do a good job. (pause) [00:16:53]

Yeah that you might have been quite enraged by like feeling that, as you are saying, like a pawn, but a pawn in a particular way. Using something about what you wanted against you. You desire them I guess in some way.

(pause from [00:17:29] to [00:18:30]

CLIENT: I think I often jump around in the chronology of events. I guess things that are close to me, or that I'm still dealing with. I'm not quite ready to open up with them. Right, I supposed I want to process them before I share them with you. I guess because I want to exercise control over the narrative or I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: Then if I kind of chimed in, it would be I could start telling the story in some way, in the narrative in some way, that it wouldn't be your

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Sentence.

CLIENT: There's also another layer, like I don't think its, I don't like it when someone completes a work of art, and then they are interviewed, about the work of art and what they've done. Like, that seems very disrespectful to me. Like, you've created a work of art and you should look to the work and not be like, like you wouldn't ask like Bach or Mozart, so, what inspired you, what's going on with that. You just experienced it. That's what the art is for. It seems silly.[00:19:57]

Like especially art, artists talks, and God, if I, if I ever created anything good, I would, I would revile being pressed to answer a question about what I meant. Because obviously, I expressed what I meant in the best possible way, in my art. I don't want to like, talk to you conversationally about it. You piece of shit. Like, so

THERAPIST: You piece of shit huh? (chuckle)

CLIENT: Yeah. (chuckle) I wasn't addressing you there, I don't think. I do realize I am segueing to like, if you added a layer of commentary to something that is still going on, it might take me to a direction that's not related to the reality or. But then my take on whatever is happening is not completely accurate either. So I don't know.

THERAPIST: Well yeah, what's the, what's the frustration with the question of what is it. I guess that what is implied is, what does this mean to you? Like there is a kind of a, a kind of repulsion of that.

CLIENT: I don't feel a repulsion towards, the repulsion or the resistance I feel in sharing something still developing and intimate. It's somewhat similar to a poker player keeping his cards face down is, it's not this were the only way, it's more like I want to see how this plays out. And take an angle out. I don't know.

THERAPIST: It's the best way to play the hand actually. If you want to use that metaphor. I mean, if you show your hand you are letting somebody else have too much, too much of a benefit, or an advantage.

CLIENT: But with the art thing, it is more of a visceral repulsion

(pause from [00:22:13] to [00:22:49])

I grew really familiar with one of the flower girls in the shop. She was very nice, a little bit portly. But a nice genial person. She had lived up North for a number of years. And we got, we had a good relationship. It was very happy, I mean, having a positive relationship with women. It was at the flower shop, and I realize, and I think this is still true. Sex is nothing in comparison to a truly caring relationship And it was, it was a very happy time. It was the best job I ever had. On the same token, I lost complete control by being sort of, I don't know, it's really quite vexing to me. To see the relationships that I worked hard, worked hard to establish to sort of turn against me irrationally. It's like everything I had given was being used against me as a weapon in some way. Because after that, after I communicated my discomfort with the, I don't know, the coquettishness or whatever, for a period after that, I think, the employer and I had an agreement that we'd talk about it. And I think I wrote a letter, and it was, I put it out there I said something like, I reread it once, and it was so painful for me to read because it was so like, it's like a soap opera for me. [00:24:49] But it was a good letter. She said it was a good letter. She gave me a hug after she read it. But we were supposed to further talk. I remember one Friday, in particular, it was when she usually pays us, and I was ready to talk. It's like I understood how I felt towards this person, I understood what happened, and I understood my stance, and I didn't really car about which way it would go, because I knew exactly what I wanted to say. But she sort of sensed that, like she picked it up. Like I'm supposed to be more timorous, not not timorous, timid. And she sensed it like in my body language, like I was just ready. (chuckle) And, another time, I think before that, it's a, we were starting to talk and her boyfriend came. She was like, oh shit, he's here. And so we stopped. [00:25:46]

And I'm not sure what I was planning. Like I said I as very certain in what I was saying? But I don't remember what that was today. But the second time I was very sad. Like I was, I haven't really experienced that I guess before or since. Like where I feel strongly emotionally, about someone, and I'm willing to communicate that, and I don't really care which way it goes. It's like, all other, if I were emotionally attached I would be like shaking or you know, in credibly evasive in a confrontation. I don't know, but it was sort of short-changed. We eventually had a meeting and it was okay. The next (inaudible) and what did I say, (pause) She asked me something like is this alright, or I think this is good, do you like working here? Like do you think I can she said she had been sort of unfair. And that she was too close to that since our conversation, and she asked if I thought it would work. If we were more rigid and like, had if we weren't friendly with each other at all in the flower shop. And I responded saying it to you now, it sounds like one of those mangers tricks where they ask your opinion But it didn't come off that way at the time. It sounded like a general, like a genuine question. [00:27:34]

I responded that I didn't think it would work. That was the only thing that made the flower shop worth while. Was that, we were sort of a soup of caring about each other and doing the work. At some point during that conversation, she I basically expressed my, some sort of rear. I forget what it was. (pause) I really do, I forget what it was. But I remember she, she answered that fear and said, I was, basically, did I look like someone who would do something like that. And then, you know, something like a week or two weeks later she did exactly what I was afraid of. It was a big step for me to take her at her word and say, you know,[00:28:56]

THERAPIST: Because it harmed your trust for her to say that?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You had already given

CLIENT: I didn't trust her, but then she said she wouldn't do whatever the hell it was, and so she earned my trust.

THERAPIST: And then she did exactly what you feared.

CLIENT: We'll have to stay vague because I can't recall. Because

THERAPIST: This was after the ladder, the whole

CLIENT: (chuckle) (pause)

THERAPIST: It's got a similar ring to the curator coming in to the art gallery. You enjoyed, you enjoyed the aspects of the job that gave you kind of more, I don't know, on one hand kind of responsibility and a sense of kind of agency there. Or a sense of kind of and then, and then the curator comes in, or the guy with curating experience comes in and kind of starts to set up all these kind of structures or hierarchy. [00:30:16]

CLIENT: I suppose it is a little similar.

THERAPIST: The soup, you like the soup.

CLIENT: She got gradually more pissed off, pissed of because it was clear that I felt betrayed. It was probably clear from my body language or my behavior that I was discontent. I never said anything. I never said anything. But she got more and more pissed off. And one time I was behind the counter, and she was saying, you are nothing but a delivery boy, that's all you are. You deliver flowers, nothing else. And it was, and it sounds reasonable, but based on our relationship and our rapport, but also it wasn't very sensical. In fact we had discussed that exact point. In fact she had something along the lines of, oh you are so much more than

THERAPIST: Just a delivery boy.

CLIENT: Just so much more, yeah. [00:31:21]

That's true, I was. I did all the maintenance, I mean technically I did all the maintenance and like picked up the orders and loaded the orders and took care of the orders.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You came late, and you actually, and then you were involved in this kind of, actually waylay-ed in some ways embroiled in this kind of love triangle or something.

CLIENT: Something.

THERAPIST: That's much more than just a delivery boy.

(laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: You must have been furious.

CLIENT: Well, at that time, I was just disappointed and sad. I, I think I would have been furious, if I had like allowed myself to really embrace anger but I, I sort of default to I felt being victimized I think far to easily in these situations. Far too easily. It's you know, situations in which I have some agency in, like a role or a place, I just feel wronged. Or in the past I felt wronged pretty quickly and shut down. I just started feeling intense, objectiveness. [00:32:49]

For something like, you can see with Christina too, it's for extended, like it's far an excess of the, of the degree one would expect of the normal, not normal, one would expect of an emotionally neutral, of an emotionally healthy human being. I mean I didn't, after I confronted this compulsive liar, who I'd known for ten meetings or twelve get-togethers or something. I had, you know, I didn't sleep for a month. But, well. There was something else.

THERAPIST: But yeah, I was thinking, sorry about cutting you off,

CLIENT: But yeah I wanted, like I wanted to imagine crap, I don't know if I want to do this. It seems to be possible we could draw in some sort of mother connection. If I feel betrayed by my mother of I don't, or I never had the unconditional love that I thought I did, and I'm trying to find unconditional love, and it doesn't exist. I don't know about this stuff, you can draw all kinds of extrapolations there. I'm not sure I want to. But it's difficult for me to explain the severity of the depressions I entered following the intimate contact with [00:34:27]

THERAPIST: Well it does speak to really, right that it can happen on short, it can a huge history doesn't have to develop for you to be able to kind of tell that story to yourself. But it's a story that you are seemingly wanting to tell, because I imagine that it has some real importance to you. That feeling, that experience, of profound, I don't even know how to characterize it even. Disappointment, jilted. Jilted feeling. Exclusion, there's a lot of exclusion, there's a pain, this profound pain of exclusion, being exuded by somebody that comes in and is more, I don't know if the word is, but almost the way it kind of goes is an alpha maleish kind of figure that comes in.

CLIENT: (laughter)

THERAPIST: Exclusion. And also, exclusion once, after you had felt like you were in. There's something also about it being a sense of, you had something too. You had something with each of these kind of, in each of these kind of situations. A kind of a, some bond or something, and it get's, it get's established and then you get, shot, shot down. [00:36:00]

CLIENT: It's almost as if I'm reenacting something.

(pause from [00:36:04] to [00:36:57])

You know because I feel like, I feel like I feed it. I partially create it. I mean with the Christina thing I had this girl who was sexually presenting herself to me, who I found attractive. And I, turned it in to something intensely emotional. And somehow some sort of emotional betrayal. In case of the first, the girl I liked in college, I courted her pretty strongly. And then, when she sort of diverted, I shot down, I'm not sure that was out of degree. But I, I'm not sure about that.

THERAPIST: Out of degree, you mean that, I was thinking that you had invested a lot of time and effort. The disappointment matched the kind of circumstances?

CLIENT: Right, yeah. (pause) And then with Beth, my employer, I mean I could have just let it slide the whole, day with the letter easily. I mean her complaint at the end, it was sort of like asking at the end of a relationship you know, like, what's wrong with me. But she basically said, well, all the drama. I can't take all the drama. Which is strange, because I hadn't talked about it, but it was probably obvious from. Well either the flower girl gossiped something to her, which may or may not have been, something about our situation which wasn't' valid from my point of view. Or she may have just picked up on my silent discontent. [00:39:07]

But I mean, I (pause) I appear to complicate relationships, with women who reach a certain stage of inwardness in my life. I complicate them in a particular way. A repetitive way. That somehow evolves, no matter how much I rationalize it, a sense of betrayal.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don't know why I haven't sat down, I'm just going to share with you my, my own kind of associations I guess. I was thinking about what you were seeing the flower girl. And, I was just thinking about a wedding. And the flower girl at the wedding, and what made me think of was, in all these situations there are these various proposals made. And I was thinking, in some way, with these women, there are these proposals that they are looking for, like are extending out to you. Oh are you out there, in the back?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh okay you probably should I mean it's up to you, I mean it's okay today, but you probably shouldn't in the future. Because I mean it's just for the tenants here, they'll tow you. But you should be able to hear that. But,

CLIENT: Proposals.

THERAPIST: Proposals, yeah. They are, asking you for, they are asking you for something, and you see the proposal but you don't, there's some way you aren't taking that proposal. You want something, you wanted something emotional.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And you wanted something else. [00:41:18]

(pause) Like almost, they just wanted, not just wanted, they wanted sex or something. They wanted something, and I hear that you wanted it to be emotional first or something.

CLIENT: Definitely, yeah. I like, yeah I don't know that relationships that start from sex can last more than like two weeks and stay exciting. I mean I think they can be physically stimulating. I do, what you are sensing is true to me. (pause from [00:42:09] to [00:42:53]

THERAPIST: Can you tell what's going on?

CLIENT: I think its just me and Jimmy's car back there right now.

THERAPIST: And then the third, do you have like a green Honda?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay, you should be fine.

CLIENT: (pause) Yeah I was thinking I always want something else other than what's developing. I question, Christina is the case in point. I mean, a virgin comes over, and I base the virgin on the fact at how she walked before and after. She complained about her boss, like having her basically. And the fact that she was crying and she called me over and was saying like, it's still bleeding and whatever. That bullshit when she was talking to her boss on the phone or whatever.

THERAPIST: It's still bleeding.

CLIENT: It's still bleeding (chuckle) she was kind of hysterical.

THERAPIST: And she came to you.

CLIENT: She came to me. But I, I differed. I wanted what she was giving me, but I didn't take it. And I didn't give her what she wanted. Instead I tried to turn it in to, a business, private, like I would put this chick who came over, sometimes dressed, whatever, but she came over, and I put her through like two hours of a lesson (laughter) and you know. Because I had this idea that I would make a business, or make a living out of teaching English as a second language. And she was the prototype to test the lessons on. And besides that later, trying to, I don't know, be some sort of provider for her. Someone who genuinely, someone she didn't have to pretend to, and who cared about her, even though she was very flawed. But I was always trying to make it more than it was. Or put more on the table than there was. [00:45:32]

THERAPIST: Did you find it ironic?

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: The helpful, being helpful and trying to get her guidance and

CLIENT: Yeah. That's tricky.

THERAPIST: Maybe romantic?

CLIENT: Certainly, definitely.

THERAPIST: And maybe I am wondering erotic. Just in terms of, was there anything exciting about it. (whispers) Exciting.

CLIENT: Yeah that was. Definitely.

THERAPIST: Okay, good.

CLIENT: I, I mean my whole room, I suppose I had been living there for about a year then. My room was a mess and I wasn't able to get anything done. And,

THERAPIST: I'm sorry, somebody's ringing for delivery. Excuse me for just a moment. [00:46:52]

(door opens and closes)

(laughter)

(door opens) (inaudible talking in the background) (door closes)

THERAPIST: Sorry about that [00:48:17]

Do you remember where you were at?

CLIENT: Yeah. I like, I (pause) it's like everything in my room was disorganized, I hadn't accomplished anything I said I had to do. And I don't know, I think I hadn't shaved in a couple of days. But then we agreed, she was going to come over for dinner. I think I had asked her over before and she said she would come but then she didn't. But then she was like, hey can I come over like Friday night or something or another. It took me like one hour to do what I had been trying to do for days and weeks. Like I shaved in an hour I cooked an excellent salmon dinner, I cleaned up my entire room, and it took one hour. And so that relates I suppose to, to providing, and just the fact that, something about fulfilling this person's need. Maybe that's too paternalistic, but it was definitely an exciting thing. But it helped me to get things together. [00:50:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, that's the, there's something about that. I think that what you are saying is to have just a straight sexual relationship or something like that with these, with any of these figures, would have been unsatisfying. It wouldn't have done what you were looking for, that you know.

CLIENT: It's like I figure that they are seeking employment, by these women. And I want to fulfill very sophisticated needs. So that's why I said last time I think I sort of preditary, predatory attitude towards relationships. Might be healthier, I have in the past become too invested. Without, from the other person, the other person's point of view much cause.

THERAPIST: Well yeah, you know, but I think you are getting, in some way what, what you must be trying to do is to get something that will give you a, I mean among other things, that certain kind of connection with a woman. Obviously, I'm just struck by what you said, yeah, it got me to clean my room, shave, it's some sort of enervating thing in your life. It's something important about, something you are looking for. Through the, through the relationship to, not really in it's own right, something that is gratifying and satisfying. But also that it does something for you in terms of yourself. Your own ability to kind of feel like you have something to live for, a meaning or something. [00:51:53]

CLIENT: I know. It must be pretty boring though, having like, unrequited love, and something else that is supposed to be equal as boring.

THERAPIST: Are you referring to me?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Really, what did I even give you that impression?

CLIENT: No, but I can't imagine that it's that interesting. People like stories of drive, they're just like, (pause)

THERAPIST: (whispers) Boring, that's interesting. But we should stop, but, how I should just check in with you, how has it been trying to find parking around here. Today, like there's no parking anywhere. But in general, I mean, did you get snagged with a ticket last time.

CLIENT: No, I got away.

THERAPIST: Good for you.

CLIENT: Initially we (inaudible) and back here on Fridays. But once this like, right on Tuesdays I can have

THERAPIST: Yeah Tuesdays there's no way with it. Friday's, look at it on Monday's too. But what is it, the cost of, and finding a meter or?

CLIENT: I can also park at the church nearby, but it'll take 10 minutes to walk from there, but it's free, so I've been the meter's are, there's usually a meter. But I don't pop down, what is it, you know, five quarters or whatever it is.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's at least four, well unless there's some change.

CLIENT: But I mean, it is what it is. (chuckle) I've got your check here.

THERAPIST: Okay, thanks. So Tuesday then.

CLIENT: Sure thing.

THERAPIST: Okay. How far of a drive do you have?

CLIENT: Uh, five miles, thirty minutes.

THERAPIST: Five miles how much?

CLIENT: Thirty minutes.

THERAPIST: Is that right?

CLIENT: Well it will be. It's 20 minutes for the drive, but let's both be careful. Are you staying another hour?

THERAPIST: Yeah, but I live like a mile from here.

CLIENT: Oh okay.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'll be okay.

CLIENT: There are yeti's out there.

THERAPIST: There are what? It's already pretty icy? Is that right?

CLIENT: No, there are yeti's, there are yeti's, ye-ti's, ye-ti's.

THERAPIST: What does that mean?

CLIENT: Abominable snowmen.

(laughter)

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: I'll see you man.

(door opens and closes)

END TRANSCRIPT