TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: It's been a while.
CLIENT: Yes, because I missed my appointment last week because I got my days mixed up.
THERAPIST: That stuff happens.
CLIENT: Yes, and I am sorry. When I thought about it, I said, oh. Man, I'm sorry.
THERAPIST: That's okay.
CLIENT: I'm sorry. That's why I called you like I've been coming.
THERAPIST: And then I saw you so.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So, what's going on?
CLIENT: Well, let's see. What is going on? I'm breaking the ice Friday. Okay, for a speech.
[00:34]
THERAPIST: Oh wow.
CLIENT: I'm the first person to speak.
THERAPIST: How do you feel about that?
CLIENT: I'm happy about it, but at the same time, you know. Oh man. It's like I'm not afraid, but I am.
THERAPIST: How do you do with giving speeches?
CLIENT: If I can translate what I write on paper and make that...if I can project it, that would be great.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: But I have a hard time with doing that. You know, it's almost like you probably realize that I have a hard time explaining myself, you know, or at least I feel like that.
THERAPIST: Oh okay. So wait a second. You know what I'm about to say. [Laughter.] You're assuming that I have a hard time...
CLIENT: Maybe understanding some things when I...no?
[01:26]
THERAPIST: Where did you get that?
CLIENT: I don't know. Because I feel like that.
THERAPIST: Okay. Explain.
CLIENT: You know so I'm thinking if I feel like I have a hard time explaining myself, then other people are going to have a hard time understanding what I'm saying.
THERAPIST: Have you gotten feedback that you're difficult to understand?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: Where did you come up with that then?
CLIENT: I don't know. Well, because I think...okay, like a lot of times if I'm asked a question I know the answer to it, but trying to explain it, you know. A lot of times I feel like I put my foot in my mouth. You know, so I'm really trying to figure out a way that I can...oh, I don't know; put my words together. You know what I mean? To say what it is that I know I need to say.
THERAPIST: Okay. Where do you notice you struggle the most?
CLIENT: Can't get it out. [Laughter.] You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: Okay.
[02:27]
CLIENT: I can write it down and you can tell me to write something and I have no problem. You know, I can write and once I get going, oh, I can go. Right. But then when I try to, you know, and it's really I'm at the point now where I say okay, well you have to speak, you know. I have to get it together.
THERAPIST: So is that why you decided to join the speech club for your upcoming conference presentation?
CLIENT: Well I want to be a good leader.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: You know what I mean. And in order to lead, I have to be able to, you know, get my words out that I have to be able to say it. I have to be able to think on my feet and I need that because I cannot do that. [Laughter.] You know. So I feel like I have the energy. I feel like the drive is there, you know. I want to do it. But it's getting it.
You know I think I told you before that sometimes I feel like – oh how is it? See what I mean. [Laughter.] And I just have to laugh it off because it's like I know; I know what I want to say, but you know. So it's like if I can take what I'm thinking and just say it.
[03:45]
And my son tells me this all the time. You know, he always says, Ma, just like you're talking to me, just say it. He said you make you everything difficult. You know and I'm trying to figure out how, you know.
THERAPIST: Well, okay. So let me ask you a question. So does this just happen to you when you speak publicly?
CLIENT: No. You know it's like sometimes I can be engaged in a conversation and what I need to say I can just say it. But then there are those times where it's like I draw a blank and that's when I told you before about my memory. I feel like I forget stuff and it's like I know I know. You know. But why can't I think?
[04:30]
THERAPIST: So you draw a blank and then what happens?
CLIENT: And then like the person is still talking and I'm so set back on what it was that I missed a few minutes ago, and then it'll just pop up.
THERAPIST: Alright. So when you give it a second and think about it, it comes back to you.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Have you ever seen President Barack Obama speak?
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: What do you notice about the way that he speaks?
CLIENT: I notice that he takes his time and I notice that he says uh, a lot. And I said well he is probably the only person in the world that can get away with that because he has to be very very careful about what he says.
Now, and...[laughs], and I notice that he's very articulate.
THERAPIST: He is.
CLIENT: You know. He doesn't really; it doesn't take him a long long time to get it. It's like he pauses, he thinks for a minute, and then he can just go.
THERAPIST: So by your own admission, he says "uh" a lot and he pauses. And people wait for him to finish.
CLIENT: Right.
[05:39]
THERAPIST: So before he was – obviously he's been a Senator, he's the President, he was a law professor – so he's used to public speaking.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: So even in public speaking he says "uh" and he pauses. He pauses a lot.
CLIENT: A lot.
THERAPIST: He's a, you know, sometimes he's a slower speaker. I mean, but he's a very good speaker.
CLIENT: Good speaker. Yes.
THERAPIST: Alright. So why do you think you can't pause to get your thoughts together?
CLIENT: Because it's almost like when I'm reading. If I read to slow, it's like I can't comprehend what I'm reading. But if I read right through, then it's like I can get it. And then the only problem about that is, is if I run across a word that I don't know the meaning of, I have a habit of stopping. I have to grab that dictionary.
THERAPIST: Alright.
[06:28]
CLIENT: And then I have to be able to take that word and I have to like substitute a word in there that I know will fit and still mean the same thing and then I'll go back and read it and use that word again, and then get it. And I feel like it takes me so long to get through...
THERAPIST: You are making a decision to do that because why?
CLIENT: To make sure that I have the right understanding of what the author is trying to say.
THERAPIST: Alright, but if you just read it, you could get the word by the context clues. You could get the general meaning.
CLIENT: I think so, but then it's that thing in the back of my head that tells me unless I get that dictionary, no.
THERAPIST: But in some ways you stop to teach yourself the word.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Alright, so you...and that's one strategy. It's like old school, they were like, okay, if you don't know the word, go get the dictionary.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So you stop to teach yourself the word to substitute a synonym or a similar sounding word in there.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But you could read it and get the general meaning of the sentence.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: You wouldn't maybe know exactly what that word meant, but you could kind of figure it out.
CLIENT: Yeah.
[07:41]
THERAPIST: But you're choosing to look it up so that you can really know what it means.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But either way, whether you stop, get a dictionary, use a synonym or keep reading, you're going to get the meaning of the word. You are.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay, when I read and I don't know a word, I'm too lazy to get the dictionary.
CLIENT: [Laughing.] I don't believe that.
THERAPIST: I absolutely promise you it's the truth, right. You know, sometimes I'll ask my husband what does this mean or whatever, and he'll go, oh let me look it up. If he doesn't know, I'm like ugh, forget about it. Right. Perhaps I'm just too lazy, but most times I can still get the general gist. But in some ways, the reason why you stop is you're using this to question your intelligence.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: Alright. Just like when you speak and you pause, what's really tripping you up is you're using this to sort of validate this idea that you're not smooth or you don't know what you're saying.
[08:46]
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: But that's not true.
CLIENT: But it feels like that.
THERAPIST: Yes, but that's your stuff. Right. Your audience. If you're talking about a topic, right, in class and you pause...here's one thing I learned about teaching. Right. So let's say I'm teaching you something and I say you know what, hang on just a second.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: I get a piece of paper and I look over on my notes. And then I go back to teaching. What do you think of that?
CLIENT: I just think that maybe you know, you just forgot something and you went back through your notes and it reminded you and you can go ahead and keep on going.
THERAPIST: Do you make an assumption about my intelligence?
CLIENT: No.
[09:31]
THERAPIST: Do you make an assumption about anything?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: I figured that out too.
CLIENT: Oh.
THERAPIST: Right. So in the beginning, as a very young teacher, I used to think I had to have it all in my head.
CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like that.
THERAPIST: Yes. So this is not an issue of how articulate you are per se, or it's not an issue that you don't know your stuff. It's an issue that because you constantly question yourself, you slow yourself down.
CLIENT: You told me that before.
THERAPIST: So if I read a word and I don't understand what it means, I have some confidence that even if I don't know what that one word means, I'm going to get the general jest and I don't have to know what that one word means. And if I really want to know, I guess I'll get myself up off the couch and go get the dictionary. Right.
CLIENT: Okay.
[10:17]
THERAPIST: But I don't question that I'm not going to be able to get it generally.
CLIENT: You know I've been like this all my life because even as a kid, you know, and I'm reading something, I always felt like I could not comprehend what I was reading. You know, I don't know why I always felt like that.
THERAPIST: Well, so here's a...is it true, you know? Is it absolutely true that when you read something you have a hard time understanding it? If you are honest with yourself.
CLIENT: If I'm honest with myself?
THERAPIST: If I'm honest with yourself.
CLIENT: I think sometimes.
THERAPIST: Alright, tell me about, because some of this is you questioning yourself, and I wonder if some of this is a true issue that you actually aren't comprehending. So tell me about...
CLIENT: Because I'm wondering too.
THERAPIST: Okay, tell me... [Laughter.] Tell me what you're...
CLIENT: Because if I feel like that, what's making me feel like that? You know it's like, I mean...
THERAPIST: Now you know I'm giving you a look right now.
CLIENT: I know.
[11:15]
THERAPIST: Because Yvette, what...right. How far back does this go?
CLIENT: I think it goes all the way back to grammar school.
THERAPIST: Isn't it interesting how our sessions always end up here.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: This is the theme. Tell me what the theme is.
CLIENT: Going back to when I was a kid and I had to do all these things that you know...but...
THERAPIST: But the theme is what? If you had to give it a name.
CLIENT: If I had to give it a name?
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: If I had to give it a name. One word?
THERAPIST: One or two.
CLIENT: Hmm. I don't know. I'm drawing a blank here.
THERAPIST: Self-doubt.
CLIENT: Oh well yeah, that's pretty good.
THERAPIST: Okay. Can we come up with a name for self-doubt? Like what's a funny name, a crazy name. Because we're going to call it out its name.
CLIENT: A crazy name for self-doubt? [Pause.] [Laughter.] Can I call it Oh Really? [Laughter.]
THERAPIST: Wait. We call it Oh Really.
CLIENT: Oh Really. I mean because it's almost like "really?"
THERAPIST: And what do you mean when you say that?
CLIENT: Okay, given the position I'm in now and if you had to put it on a scale, from where I was to where I am now, and now I'm starting to think I have a hard time comprehending, it doesn't go together.
[13:08]
THERAPIST: Oh wow, can you say that again?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I think you should say that again. Say that one more time for me. Go ahead.
CLIENT: Given where I was to where I am now, and thinking I have a hard time comprehending, doesn't go together.
THERAPIST: So it's not true. So you would say it's not true.
CLIENT: No, it's not true.
THERAPIST: Okay, so we're going to call it Oh Really or Not True?
CLIENT: We're going to call it Not True.
THERAPIST: So we're going to call your self-doubt Not True.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Yes. The self-doubt is real and I don't want to minimize that. But that's what the difference between your reading something and not comprehending a word, it's almost like you feel like to be smart you have to absolutely understand everything 100%.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: That is not true.
CLIENT: Because it's like, okay, when I come in here and I talk to you and everything, I feel like you got it. You don't need the book. You got it. You did the homework. And I'm so serious. I feel like that.
THERAPIST: Okay, but your honor, what book? [Laughter.] What book would I be reading? The book of Yvette? Well what book? [Laughter.]
CLIENT: I mean with, like, okay, with the advice that you give me and everything and I say you can't do that if you didn't like really focus when you were in school; when you read that book, everything you read you got it.
THERAPIST: Oh, so you are making all kinds of assumptions in here about my ability to understand you because it's based on a book?
[14:25]
CLIENT: I mean no. I mean it's based on your intelligence. How you interpret everything and you took it from that book and then you know, you know now, because I mean we weren't born with the knowledge, so you had to get it from your studying and your, you know, and you took everything in and you got it. Like you know, it's like everything you read, bam; you got it.
THERAPIST: Are you sure? Everything I read?
CLIENT: It feels like it.
THERAPIST: [Laughing.] Are you sure?
CLIENT: I mean, I feel like that. Yes.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I feel like your intelligence level is like yeah.
THERAPIST: Well thank you.
CLIENT: Oh, you're welcome.
THERAPIST: So you're comparing yourself to me again?
CLIENT: Well, I would like to be just like you. I think, I mean, seriously. You know, the intellect and I mean, it's fascinating to me, but I feel like why can't I remember so I can be, you know? It's like, I feel like when someone comes up to me and we're engaged in a conversation, and I can just pop right in and I know, you know, oh, yeah, I can conversate with them. I know what they're talking about without self-doubt. Like you said.
THERAPIST: What are we calling self-doubt again?
CLIENT: Not True.
THERAPIST: Not True.
CLIENT: Right. Okay, without Mr. Not True.
[15:39]
THERAPIST: Mr. Not True.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: So, thank you for the compliment. Okay, and I like you a lot, which is, you know, and I think that we have a good rapport which helps, but what you see between us sort of is not only built on our genuine relationship, but it's a practiced skill. Alright. There are skills that you have in your life you've practiced a long time. Give me an idea of some of those skills.
CLIENT: That I've practiced?
THERAPIST: For a really long time; that you just kind of do.
CLIENT: Hmm, that I just kind of do. Take care of people.
THERAPIST: Okay, exactly. So you know, whether it's doing CPR, whether it's handling crises, people look at you and go my God, how can you do that? You keep cool in a situation. You're the person in your family people go to with solutions. Right. So you're going to take that skill set and translate it into a job.
So for me, what are you watching here besides our work together? A practiced skill set. Alright. So what do I do for a living? I talk to people and I teach. So I talk all the time. Alright. If you watched me do a math problem, you would probably weep for me because I am...
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: I am terrible at math.
CLIENT: Me too.
THERAPIST: I am abysmal. Alright. So I can relate to you in terms of understanding. I never felt like I was very bright, Yvette, especially when it came to math and standardized tests because I just did not do well.
CLIENT: That is how I feel.
THERAPIST: Yes, right. But if you look at the things that you do with your family and if you look at you nursing, you are an automatic. It's not that you don't work at those things, but you're good at it and it's a practiced skill set. You know you're sort of comparing what you see and hear, because we're working with your vulnerability, and I've just kind of told you some of mine, but you're watching a skillet that I've been practicing for a really long time. And when you take what you're already good at and you put that in to a career, people will look at you and go wow. And you know it because your professors already look at you and go wow. They want you to go speak and they constantly validate how bright you are. The only person having a hard time believing it is you.
[18:15]
CLIENT: Is me. Why?
THERAPIST: Well, you tell me.
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: We've spent a lot of time looking at where this comes from for you.
CLIENT: Right. I'm trying to...I'm still trying to figure it out. You know, why am I dragging...I'm just dragging Mr. Not True with me. [Laughter.]
THERAPIST: Mr. Not True is a real son-of-a-bitch!
CLIENT: You know. He's heavy, you know. [Laughter.]
THERAPIST: He is heavy. [Laughter.]
CLIENT: I'm going to drop him.
THERAPIST: Well, why are you dragging Mr. Not True? Where does Mr. Not True come from?
CLIENT: I have no idea. You know, okay, so on my drive here to school today I was talking to a friend and oh, you know, I've been friends with her since high school. And it's like when she tells me stuff, you know, I, okay, so I appreciate all the good things that she has to say about me and stuff like that, you know, but...
THERAPIST: I knew you were about to say a "but."
CLIENT: I know. I'm really trying to delete that out of my vocabulary.
THERAPIST: Yes, again, Mr. Not True just pokes his little ugly head in here constantly.
[19:23]
CLIENT: You know I need to like kick him in the head.
THERAPIST: I think so.
CLIENT: And I'm thinking and I said, yeah, you know. I said that sounds really good. All of it...
THERAPIST: You were about to say but.
CLIENT: But...
THERAPIST: Okay, but what?
CLIENT: But if I'm so – oh, how can I say it? I am so good at what it is that I'm doing, why can I not see that? And then I ask myself that repeatedly, "Why can I not see what everybody else sees?" I think I had that conversation with you before.
THERAPIST: Yeah, and what do you think the answer is?
CLIENT: I'm thinking; that's what I think. I think it's because I feel like my memory is just not, you know, it's just not there. It's like...if you ask me right now when I first walked through that door today what's the first thing that you said to me or the first thing I said to you, I couldn't tell you.
THERAPIST: Uh, I can't tell you what the first thing I said, so why, I don't...I can't. I have no idea what I said five minutes ago. None.
CLIENT: Oh. Oh for real?
THERAPIST: And I can tell you because it happens to me when I'm teaching and I'll say, I'll stop and I will completely forget something and then I will say to my students who know me well, I'll say, "What was I talking about?" And they'll say you were talking about this. Maybe you do have memory problems. I don't want to say you don't. But the weight that you put on them, you attach a label to it and the label you attach is "I'm not smart," or "I'm not smart enough," or "I don't understand a word, I'm not smart." And that then puts you in to this psychological process that takes your concentration away from what you're doing, and then you feel bad. And then Mr. Not True shows up. Instead of going, oh, that's no big deal.
[21:24]
So when I forget something in a classroom because it's a practiced skill, I don't even pay attention. It's so no big deal, it's like a big joke. And it doesn't mean, you know, that I don't know what I'm talking about. It just means I forgot.
CLIENT: But all the time?
THERAPIST: Well, so and when President Obama pauses and says "Um," nobody says well he's an awful public speaker. They may not like what he's saying...
CLIENT: No, I think it's because they understand that he has to because he has to be very careful.
THERAPIST: Well, that may be the case, but people don't say he's not a bright man because he stops and pauses. But when you stop and pause and you can't remember something, Mr. Not True shows up and you make the assumptions because you're not bright.
CLIENT: Well yeah.
THERAPIST: But it doesn't mean that. So if Mr. Not True, you know, if we took him and removed him and it just was you couldn't remember something, or it was just, you know, you had to stop and think about it and it didn't mean that you weren't bright, how would that change your life?
CLIENT: Oh, if I removed them?
THERAPIST: If you removed them.
CLIENT: Ah man. Whew. I don't know. It would probably take off like...but then...but...
THERAPIST: How would it change your life?
CLIENT: [Pause.] I mean it would change in a good way.
THERAPIST: How would it feel?
CLIENT: Oh, it should feel really good, you know, I'm thinking. It should feel great. And I want to like drop him off at like the nearest bus station. I mean...
THERAPIST: Can you close your eyes for a second? I want you to think about something.
CLIENT: Okay.
[23:11]
THERAPIST: So can you imagine if you kind of floated through the world freely – in class, you know, at school, through conversations with people, and you just enjoyed the conversations and you just didn't have a self-doubt thought at all – what would that be like?
CLIENT: Oh, that would be like floating in the center of the Grand Canyon.
THERAPIST: What would change for you?
CLIENT: Oh man, I would feel so, I don't know, I think free is a good word.
THERAPIST: Describe.
CLIENT: I would feel like I could answer anything, I could dip right in to the conversation and I'm easily understood, you know, as opposed to okay, or something like that.
THERAPIST: And what is the feeling you would have besides free?
CLIENT: I would feel pretty good. I think. Actually I would feel like I did it. I would feel like that was easy.
THERAPIST: And would that feel like confidence to you?
CLIENT: Confidence.
THERAPIST: So what does confidence feel like?
CLIENT: Confidence feels like I just mastered something that I thought was going to be very very difficult.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: When it wasn't difficult at all.
[24:53]
THERAPIST: So if you or maybe it was difficult and you still did a good job anyway. So if you walked through the world with a sense of confidence, what would it feel like to you?
CLIENT: I could accomplish anything. In which I feel like that now. I feel like I can do anything.
THERAPIST: Okay, stop for a second. Open your eyes. Isn't that a sense of confidence?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You have confidence in many ways, you just don't acknowledge it.
CLIENT: So how can I acknowledge it?
THERAPIST: What would it be like if you did acknowledge it? Like you feel like if you work hard enough you can do anything. Well how do you know that's true?
CLIENT: Well, I went to the career center yesterday and I took the strength assessment test.
THERAPIST: Yes, I'm aware of that one.
CLIENT: Okay, and as I was taking this test, I liked the way the categories were broken down and as I move from one section to the other, I said, ah, hmm. I said, okay, I see where this is going. You know, it's like the question that it would ask and I instantly, the very first one was accounting, and I put no. You know. Totally dislike accounting. Anything that had something to do with math, handling other people's money, stuff like that, I run from. You know, and I managed to avoid taking a lot of math in my life. Anything that has anything to do with, oh, if I see Calculus, oh, you know, I run from it.
[26:45]
THERAPIST: Even though you were good at math.
CLIENT: Well, that's what my teacher said. I didn't believe her.
THERAPIST: Because what? She was lying to make you feel better? None of my math teachers ever lied to me and told me that to make me feel better. [Laughter.]
CLIENT: I mean, you know, I thought that maybe...I said maybe she just likes me. You know. Because...
THERAPIST: Didn't you do pretty well in math?
CLIENT: Well, that was in high school.
THERAPIST: So wait, you were good in math and now all of a sudden it's undone?
CLIENT: I mean, well, okay, it's like...
THERAPIST: That is Mr. Not True showing back up.
CLIENT: Guess what, if I look at a math problem right now...my cousin asked me to help her with I think it was Trigonometry. I looked at that and I thought I knew what it was, and I thought that I could do that and try to help her, and when we go to the back of the book and check the answer and I said, wow. I said, oh no, I can't do this.
[27:39]
THERAPIST: Okay but wait. But isn't math just another practiced skill?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You know I couldn't even get to Trigonometry. I had to stop with College Algebra. I never got to Trigonometry. I failed Geometry.
CLIENT: But you had Trigonometry in high school.
THERAPIST: No I didn't. I had College Algebra because my parents knew not to put me in Trigonometry.
CLIENT: [Laughter.] Really?
THERAPIST: I couldn't pass Geometry.
CLIENT: Really?
THERAPIST: I barely passed Algebra.
CLIENT: Me too. I mean see, okay, when I was in high school...
THERAPIST: But, how did you process what I just told you?
CLIENT: I don't think I did.
THERAPIST: Yes, so let's.
CLIENT: Okay.
[28:19]
THERAPIST: I failed algebra my first semester of freshman year. I had a D in geometry. And after that, I was one of the last classes in the state, right, that you had to just pass and just have two years of math, so I didn't take another math class. And when I got to college, I had college algebra again at a community college, right, and I did okay in it, but I had to start back at intermediate algebra when I was in college, alright, at a community college, to be tutored because I had to take statistics as part of psychology. And I had a tutor in math every step of the way even in my doctoral program in grad school. I've had math tutors my whole life.
CLIENT: I think I'm going to be just like that.
THERAPIST: But my point is you have exulted me to be this highly intelligent person, right.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: And somehow you're not an intelligent person because you struggle with math when you really don't; you just haven't practiced it in years. You know, or you compare a set of practiced skills that someone has and say well I can't do that, so I'm less. But some part of you has confidence because you keep doing all of these things and being successful. So you have a lot of guts within you and some part of you knows you can do it and do it well or you wouldn't keep doing it. The only problem is you never integrate it in to yourself and go, "I did that. I did a really good job," and let it build your confidence.
[29:56]
If you actually accepted the things that you were good at and we'll have to take a look at why it's hard for you to do that. But if you actually accepted them in to yourself and made them part of who Yvette is...
CLIENT: That's just it. I don't know who...
THERAPIST: ...and held them there...
CLIENT: I'm trying to figure out who I am.
THERAPIST: Well, I think that's part of it, right, but part of who you are is being a very bright intellectually curious person. You write business plans and books and you know decide...if you didn't actually think you could do it, you wouldn't be doing some of these things. But you have to learn to take it in you and make yourself feel good.
The other thing is, you can't learn something to mastery if you don't integrate it in to yourself. So the reason why Barack Obama can pause during a speech is because he trusts himself to give a good speech whether he pauses, forgets something, says "Uh," right, he trusts himself to give a good speech because he has had years of practicing that style.
[31:07]
CLIENT: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.
THERAPIST: So how does that relate to you?
CLIENT: It's okay to, you know, pause and forget and then it comes back and then you're back in the swing of things. You know, that makes a lot of sense.
THERAPIST: Okay. [Laughter.]
CLIENT: [Laughter.]
THERAPIST: It makes a lot of sense.
CLIENT: I didn't say it.
THERAPIST: No, but you're getting ready to say "but."
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: So what does that mean for you then?
CLIENT: That maybe me self-doubting myself is really not necessary. I mean, you know, just...
THERAPIST: What do you enjoy about school?
CLIENT: Everything.
THERAPIST: Like?
[32:01]
CLIENT: I enjoy learning new stuff. I mean all the time. It doesn't matter what it is.
THERAPIST: Okay, alright. How are your grades?
CLIENT: Oh, well, I'm getting ready to check right now from my workshops.
THERAPIST: How do you rate your GPA?
CLIENT: Right now it's a 3.71 and it should be a little bit higher now when I go check those other grades.
THERAPIST: Well, okay, and so when you think about getting a 3.71, how do you feel?
CLIENT: I feel good. But...
THERAPIST: Stop.
CLIENT: Oh, but. Stop. Yes. Oh goodness. [Laughter.]
THERAPIST: But do you feel proud of yourself?
CLIENT: I do. Now...
THERAPIST: Wait. Can we hold pride for a second? Just hold proud. Just hold on to it before you kick it away. Let it rest there.
CLIENT: I was getting ready to kick it away.
THERAPIST: You about missed yourself; was about to kick away. Mr. Not True.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So what was supposed to happen is you have this great GPA and you should go wow. And then the next semester you'd be able to trust that if you continue to work hard and learn everything and learn, that that becomes consistent. Not perfect, but consistent over time.
CLIENT: Yes.
[33:19]
THERAPIST: Right, so when you write, are you a good writer? Honestly.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: Okay, thank you very much. Yes. And I've seen your writing.
CLIENT: You did?
THERAPIST: You gave me the business plan.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah I did.
THERAPIST: Okay. Yes you did. It was well written. And I wouldn't lie to you. Trust.
CLIENT: Thank you.
THERAPIST: Okay, so then you begin to learn although nobody's a perfect writer, that you're a good writer. It begins to build confidence. Alright, so when you get the odd Bor something like that on one assignment, you don't go, "Oh, I'm a terrible writer," you just go that's odd.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And you don't let it knock your confidence. So all of these experiences of success should help you build confidence because nobody but you are doing these things. You wouldn't be in school if you didn't think you could be successful.
CLIENT: Right. Right.
[34:18]
THERAPIST: You don't have to continually doubt yourself. You can be not only proud of your accomplishments and happy about it, but you can learn to trust yourself and stop examining every word that comes out every pause, every thought that you have and every word that you don't know.
CLIENT: Oh Lord, if I could do that. Oh, I would be...
THERAPIST: You believe you can do anything.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I believe it too, so.
CLIENT: Right, why can't I do that?
THERAPIST: Well you can.
CLIENT: Right. I can. You know. Like you said, practice.
THERAPIST: Why don't you just enjoy the fact that you're a good student?
[35:04]
CLIENT: Well, I thought I was.
THERAPIST: You're enjoying school. Can you enjoy the fact that you're a good student?
CLIENT: I'm not doing that?
THERAPIST: Are you?
CLIENT: I think I am.
THERAPIST: What would that mean? What would that look like?
CLIENT: Enjoy the fact that I'm a good student. Well, keeping the good grades.
THERAPIST: Alright, what else?
CLIENT: Well, you know what; I did have somebody to ask me to mentor them.
THERAPIST: Okay. How did that feel?
CLIENT: That felt really good. That felt, oh.
THERAPIST: Why did they ask you?
CLIENT: Okay. We happened to...we have a class together. And we always speak to each other. I speak to everybody, it doesn't matter. And this one particular day we happened to come in to the school at the same time. And we just started talking and then she said I tried to – what was that she told me? She said; no, she asked me about an assignment and I had to ask her what class do I have with you again? And when she told me that, I said, oh, okay. And then we just started talking, you know, and she started sharing some really intimate things with me and stuff and I just listened, you know. And...
THERAPIST: How often does that happen to you?
[36:37]
CLIENT: A lot.
THERAPIST: Right. Why?
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: You do know.
CLIENT: I don't know. Maybe it's just my personality.
THERAPIST: Okay, what does that mean?
CLIENT: I'm a people person I guess.
THERAPIST: Okay, what else? This is part of that skill set that we were talking about.
CLIENT: Maybe... I think I'm a good listener.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: And I try to be as honest with people, you know...
THERAPIST: Why are people attracting to you? Professors, other students.
[37:24]
CLIENT: Maybe it's my jokes. [Laughter.]
THERAPIST: Well, alright, so your jokes, your personality. What else? Why do people like to be around you?
CLIENT: I'm a positive person.
THERAPIST: Yes you are. Okay, you're warm, funny...
CLIENT: Oh thank you.
THERAPIST: Genuine.
CLIENT: Yes, I try to be.
THERAPIST: Positive person and a good listener. You don't think that that's a practiced skill set?
CLIENT: That is a practiced skill set.
THERAPIST: Alright, tell me how.
CLIENT: Oh well, because I've been doing it for years.
THERAPIST: Okay, so somebody else who struggles socially or has a lot of social anxiety who's not good in social situations looks at you and goes, "Wow, how do you do that?"
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Do you see that?
[38:11]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: How does she do that?
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: How does she just think she can just talk to people and how do people, "Wow; I wish I had that."
CLIENT: You know, a lot of people tell me that and they say that it's weird. They say, like you just said, how do you do that? How do you speak to everybody? How is it that you're always happy? How is it that? And then I'll tell them well, because I don't put my burdens off on anybody. You know, if whatever it is that I may be dealing with at home or I don't bring school home, you know. I just think there's a place and time for everything. And the people that I encounter, you know, why should I bog them down with stuff. I don't even know what they're dealing with.
THERAPIST: But Yvette, some part of you knows you're really good at it, or you wouldn't keep doing it.
CLIENT: Well, I just think that...
THERAPIST: No, it's a skill. Some part of you knows you're really good with people or you wouldn't keep doing it.
CLIENT: I just like doing it.
THERAPIST: I get that you do and I think that's great. But some part of you also knows you're really good at it or you wouldn't keep doing it.
CLIENT: Oh, well I didn't think about it like that.
THERAPIST: Alright, but it's a practiced skill set. Alright, it's not something everyone can do. It's part of who you are. So, that's why I'm saying you should enjoy it. Use it to mastery. It's that skill set you're going to put in to a profession. So when you say I'm going to go back to you and I and you say you can just say things or whatever. So some of that is me – I'm social. Part of who I am – and some of it's a practiced skill set and you have equally honed practiced skill sets that other people connect to that you're really good at, and that's what you use to build your confidence and make yourself feel good. We all have things that we can do individually that other people cannot do that makes us special. We each have unique gifts, right.
So you recognize your gifts, but you have to really – what's the word I'm looking for – you really have to celebrate your gifts. Practice them.
[40:27]
CLIENT: Celebrate.
THERAPIST: Celebrate, accept, practice, use.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: You know, hone, right, and you have been. So it's time to recognize it because Mr. what did we say self-doubt was?
CLIENT: Mr. Not So whatever. What is he?
THERAPIST: Whatever. See...
CLIENT: Mr. Not Sure.
THERAPIST: Mr. Not Sure.
CLIENT: We're already kicking him in the head now. He's...
THERAPIST: Yeah, it's handicapping you because you read something and you think you have problems with reading comprehension and you don't. Right. So how do you know the difference between not really understanding the material and just not understanding a word? And when Mr. Self-doubt – we had a name; see neither one of us can remember the name.
CLIENT: I know. Can't even remember.
[41:09]
THERAPIST: Right, but what...it's not the same. You have to trust your brain. It's amazing when you do. You have to know what your brain does well and doesn't do well, but when you trust your brain and trust yourself, you know, you kind of know what you're good at, what you're not good at, and you feel good about yourself.
CLIENT: And it's funny you say that because I felt like that before. I don't trust my brain. It's not working right. You know.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I felt like that.
THERAPIST: Is that true?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: Good! Trust your brain. Enjoy how bright you are. I mean enjoy it. Don't doubt it. It doesn't mean you're good at everything. Right. I've had to get comfortable with the fact that I'm just really not that good at math except when it comes to money. I can do math in my head. You put a $ sign behind it, I'm like oh yeah.
CLIENT: I can do that.
THERAPIST: Yeah. And clearly I have gotten whatever it is I need to get okay from my mathematical experiences, right, and I'm doing something that highlights my strengths and minimizes my weaknesses.
CLIENT: Okay.
[42:18]
THERAPIST: Alright, so I have enough about what I do that makes me feel good professionally, right, and confident professionally all while understanding that I'm not good at everything, and I'm okay with that.
CLIENT: So Dr. Helm, let me ask you this.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Now, at the point where I am now, okay, so it's okay to not know everything that there is about math, even at the point where I am now?
THERAPIST: How could you ever know everything there is to know about math?
CLIENT: Okay, well maybe I didn't say that right.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Let's see, how can I say it? Okay, let me use this example. A friend of mine called me. She – I'm assuming – she told these other young ladies at the school that she attends that I could help them with their math because I helped her once before. Now, back when I was helping her with her math, I was actually in class and had math class.
THERAPIST: Yeah, so you were practicing the skill set.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: So it was right in front of your face.
CLIENT: It was right in front of my face.
THERAPIST: Yes.
[43:32]
CLIENT: Now she calls me and says I have these two friends, you know, that need help with their math and I told them how you helped me and how you broke it down where I could understand it. You know, and I asked her, I said, well what kind of math is it? She couldn't tell me. I said well find out from them what kind of math it is and then I'll see what I can do. You know.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: She said well I told them that you'd probably charge like...I said, nope; I'm not going to charge them.
THERAPIST: Why not?
CLIENT: You know, because I don't know if I know how to help them for sure.
THERAPIST: But some part of you believes that you might be able to do it or you wouldn't do it; you would have said no.
CLIENT: Right, and see what I was going to do was I said to myself now in all honesty I said, okay, no matter what math it is, they should have a book. The book has examples, and I'll follow the example, and apply it to whatever the question is and...
THERAPIST: Okay, and that's my point. That some part of you knows that if you get that book and you look at it you will figure it out.
CLIENT: My comprehension.
[44:38]
THERAPIST: The same part of that knows that if I got that book I would be useless in that. I can't, huh uh. It doesn't matter how many times. Huh uh. But you know...
CLIENT: Really?
THERAPIST: Yes! I am absolutely serious. But you know you can get that book and you can figure it out. That's confidence. Right. See you have to take the lid off of it and drink it.
CLIENT: I have to take the lid off and drink it.
THERAPIST: And feel good about it. Right. You know, if you asked me to tutor someone in something else that I was good at, I'd feel the same way. Oh yeah, just give me the book. I can figure it out. But you can do that with many things. Feel good about the things that you're good at. You are not going to be arrogant. You are not an arrogant person, but you can feel really good about your brain. It's important to you, you value learning, you're smart. Well you might as well celebrate your brain. You might as well get to know it really well, right.
[45:38]
When I say that, you know, you're going on to grad school I'm sure.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: Okay, so one of the things that going from undergrad to grad school teaches you is it's a further practice of skill set – writing, reading, it takes you...you learn how long something takes you to do. You learn how to integrate or pool together information well. Alright. So you like stretching your brain Yvette.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: That's one of the reasons why you said yes to tutoring math because part of you is intellectually curious.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Alright, but that's what you want to build on. If you didn't think you could do it, you wouldn't. So you should feel really good about that. That's part of your confidence. You don't really doubt yourself as much as you think you do. But self-doubt prevents you from really enjoying just how good you could be.
CLIENT: Okay, so, okay, if I stop self-doubting...
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Arrogance is not going to follow that, is it?
THERAPIST: I don't think so. I don't think you've been arrogant in the first 40 years.
CLIENT: No. And I don't...oh Lord. I...oh, I would hate to be...
THERAPIST: Well why don't we practice and see what happens. I'll let you know if arrogance follows. [Laughter.]
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: Why don't we just...your homework assignment, why don't you just enjoy your mind this week. Enjoy...
CLIENT: I'm going to do that.
THERAPIST: Enjoy what it can do.
CLIENT: I've never done that. I'm going to do that.
THERAPIST: You should enjoy it.
CLIENT: I am going to do that. I never thought to do that.
THERAPIST: Yeah, well you should.
CLIENT: You know it's like...
THERAPIST: Some things that you do you don't really have to work as hard as some other people; and other things you have to work harder.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay, well that goes back to your special gift.
CLIENT: Hmm. Dog. I never thought of it that way. Okay. That's what I'm going to do.
THERAPIST: So that's your homework; to enjoy your brain.
CLIENT: Yeah. You wouldn't think that somebody would tell you to enjoy your brain.
THERAPIST: Enjoy your mind.
CLIENT: Enjoy it.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Yeah. I'm going to do that.
THERAPIST: Okay, let me know how that goes.
CLIENT: I will. [Laughter.]
END TRANSCRIPT
