TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Well, hello.

CLIENT: Hello!

THERAPIST: How are you? What's happening?

CLIENT: I'm good. Guess what I did – Friday?

THERAPIST: What did you do Friday?

CLIENT: Okay. I told you they made me vice president of membership for speech club?

THERAPIST: No!

CLIENT: I didn't tell you that?

THERAPIST: No!

CLIENT: Oh my goodness, yes.

THERAPIST: How do you feel about that?

CLIENT: I feel good, but I wonder why. (Laughs) You know like, you sure didn't make a mistake. Oh my goodness.

THERAPIST: So here we are again. Well, why do we always ask why?

CLIENT: I don't know. You know? (Laughing) I mean, but okay, so they did. I was told okay, you're the best person for this. You know? So I'm like, okay. So what do I have to do? And when they told me what I have to do I said, oh, I do that already anyway. So that's why you're the best person for this. It's okay. I am happy about it.

THERAPIST: I know very little about toastmasters. Can you give me some ideas about – it's for public speaking, I know.

CLIENT: Yeah. And what they do is help you to perfect your public speaking, help you to eliminate the fear, eliminate the anxiety, help you espouse it. It's so funny! So –

THERAPIST: And how do they do that?

CLIENT: Well, everyone who is in that meeting is there for the same purpose. And that is the only place where you can feel safe to make a mistake, you know? And not be judged and criticized in a negative way. So they give everyone the opportunity to speak.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: It doesn't matter how small, or the amount of time it takes to say the thing you want to say. Everybody there is there to better themselves in every meeting. Every time you leave you're taking something with you.

THERAPIST: And what's the structure of the meeting?

CLIENT: The structure of the meeting is you have your Board, and you have the person that' officiating the meeting who's known as the toastmaster. You have your grammarian – you know, the person who watches the grammar and critiques the grammar. You have your "ah"" counter who tells you how many times you say the word "ah" or whatever your comfort word is many times. I'm realizing, I'm recognizing. You have your clock person or the timekeeper. You have about two – that's one of my first meetings so we had about two speakers. And I happen to be one of them. I was the icebreaker number one. [00:02:48]

THERAPIST: So you – let me just make sure I understand. You get together with this group of people who joined and they tell you what the structure is.

CLIENT: Right. There's an agenda that's made out and the vice president of education and the president, the secretary and myself –

THERAPIST: And you'd never been to one of these meetings before and you ended up the first night doing public speaking and becoming the vice president.

CLIENT: Well, how can I say it? During the induction ceremony – and it isn't really a ceremony I think because (unclear) was so new to me.

THERAPIST: By the way, wasn't I correct?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Oh, you're welcome. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: And how come we just kind of –

CLIENT: Like veered away from that?

THERAPIST: Yeah, just veered away from that.

CLIENT: I know. I don't know. I just – I realized that you know –

THERAPIST: So what am I going to say? Because this is our theme. Every week – every week we come to two themes. Do you realize what the themes are?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: What's one of the things you know I'm going to say?

CLIENT: Why is there always a "but"? Why am I always doubting myself?

THERAPIST: Okay, that's one thing. And that people continually recognize talent in you.

CLIENT: My strengths and abilities.

THERAPIST: And the other is we seem to get to the theme of some of the traumas that you've experienced and your pain. You blow both off with consistent regularity. You blow off the fact that you are an extremely talented individual, which I think you know, but you don't embrace it nor internalize it. And you're continually surprised when your position as a leader, even though you've been a leader your whole life – you're like, ‘oh my goodness, why did they choose me?' But you haven't described situations to me in which it doesn't happen, right. It happens all the time. So that's the one thing. And then the other thing is just how deeply these traumas in your life have impacted you. These two themes we get to every session. It doesn't matter if we're talking about the weather. They come right back. [00:05:08]

CLIENT: Wow.

THERAPIST: Am I right? Am I wrong? What do you think?

CLIENT: Yeah. Now that I hear you say that, it happens.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What do you think it's about?

CLIENT: I would like to know.

THERAPIST: Right. Me to.

CLIENT: So – how can we get to that? I don't –

THERAPIST: Well, what do you think that's about?

CLIENT: I don't know. Now you know, I have been wondering. I said, okay, why is it that I think I can't? Why is it that I think I can't do something that's so simple to other people? You know, I don't understand that. It's like okay, my professor told me before she gives me this grade, you know, she wants to know why I submitted the work late.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And I explained it to her and I said, okay. Now I know I submitted it late. I had a valid reason. You know, I don't believe in excuses. It is what it is. I kind of did that whole assignment like in one day. Where it would have taken all of about two weeks. I know I could have done a better job but I'm thinking of whatever I had going on and I'm trying to do this and do this and do this and do that and then I find myself trying to join another organization.

THERAPIST: So what happened with the assignment?

CLIENT: Well, I submitted it late and I don't know yet. She didn't –

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know, I just sent her the e-mail yesterday.

THERAPIST: But your brain. We ended last week with your brain. Your fine brain. [00:07:29]

CLIENT: I think it has a fart right now. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Your brain has a fart. What? (Laughing) Your brain has a fart in it.

CLIENT: Yes. (Laughing) I could have phrased that better but that's the only thing I can think of right now.

THERAPIST: Why? You need to explain that to me.

CLIENT: Because I'm thinking of – I hate it when my professors say, you know, I don't like the fact that I didn't give 100%.

THERAPIST: Wait. Stop. That's not what it's about.

CLIENT: That's not what it's about?

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: What is it about?

THERAPIST: Whether you give 100% or not, because nobody can give 100%, 100% of the time. And sometimes you can do really well by giving it a good 80% or 70% of the time and that's acceptable. But you just said something that might have taken you two weeks, took you a day. And maybe it wasn't 100%, but it was still a very good effort, right? So once again, taking the farts out of your brain, it' about appreciating your mind and you don't really stop to do that. You don't stop to appreciate how bright you are, how smart you are. You're just always focusing on what's not good enough. How you say "um" which somehow in your mind makes you not articulate enough. But you're not really appreciating the things you do really well and every time someone sees a talent in you, which is like every second person that you talk to, you're amazed.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, when do we stop being amazed? You're 44?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: So when do you finally appreciate your mind? Because otherwise you're just wasting it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I feel like that, like I do. I feel like it's almost like – I had the perfect word on my tongue. It's almost like I know that I can do this or that, but then once I'm engaged and starting to do it, I feel like – oh wait, something can be done better than this, you know? Or something that – instead of just doing it? You know? [00:10:16]

THERAPIST: But you're getting ramped up in the "better than this" as opposed to enjoying the process of learning. So going back to some of our earlier work, you said your sons are out of the house. It's finally your time, right? You're in school; you're getting a chance to focus on that. It's finally your time. When do you appreciate fully, your gifts and talents?

CLIENT: I would like to get to that point.

THERAPIST: Okay. When do you get to that point? Because you could be doing it now.

CLIENT: Um. I don't know. When do I get to that point? What is it that I'm missing?

THERAPIST: Let me see. Let me give you an example and see if this fits for you.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Okay. So I think we had this discussion of how I struggled with math and statistics,

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And I remember being in graduate school feeling very insecure that I wasn't smart enough to be there. Everyone was smarter than me. They did better on the GRE which is the test you take to get into grad school.

CLIENT: Yeah, I hear about that test.

THERAPIST: So, oh my goodness. And I was very insecure about my ability to do the work. And I was comparing myself constantly to other people. Long story short – there were a lot of people there who were smarter than me and a lot of people who weren't as smart as I was in particular areas. So I remember when I studied for my comprehensive exam. Anyway, I ended up doing very well and for the first time I thought, you know what? I'm smart enough in this area, right? So here's what I learned to appreciate about my brain. It can't do everything. It thinks in particular ways, right? I have the ability to remember a lot of information in a particular area and not to comprehend – for example – I'm terrible at technology. I'm not good with math. But I'm a pretty good writer and if I study something hard enough and it's within my defined skill set, I can do it, and do it pretty well. So what I figured out – and I figured it out through school, how to test the limits of my brain – certain things that would take my classmates a long time, didn't take me long at all. Other things that it took some of them a really quick amount of time to do I struggled painfully with. So I just had to learn –

CLIENT: That sounds like me. [00:12:40]

THERAPIST: How my mind works. Right? What are the things that I am good at? And then I had to learn to really appreciate it so I could maximize the way my mind works and is individual to me. I just took my phone to my older brother and said, you have to fix this. I got a new phone and I don't know where anything I – I don't even know where the off switch is. I said, can you please fix this phone and put some technology on that phone? And I'm never going to learn that. I'll learn it well enough. You have an amazing mind. And it works for you and you are constantly debating, debilitating, disparaging your own mind when it's a really, really good mind. It can't do everything but it can do some amazing things that you constantly diminish because you're not enjoying your brain when you could be really enjoying your brain. I mean what would it be like for you if you really got in touch with all of the things you can do really well? The fact that you are bright. What would that be like for you?

CLIENT: I don't know. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Can you imagine that for me?

(Pause): [00:13:56 00:14:04]

CLIENT: I guess I would be maybe trying to do some other things.

THERAPIST: Like what?

CLIENT: Well, I like knowledge, period. So – I would try almost anything.

THERAPIST: Like what?

CLIENT: Okay. Well, what I thought about trying before I got here – was neurophysiology.

THERAPIST: (Unclear)?

CLIENT: Well, because I was always fascinated with the brain. I really was. The way that it works. I think I saw something on Channel 11 a long time ago. And they had the person awake but had the skull open and they –

THERAPIST: That's gross.

CLIENT: Yes, but I loved it.

THERAPIST: I know because you are a nurse.

CLIENT: You know, and they would touch all these nerves and the person' voice changed and do this with this and I was just so fascinated and I was like, wow! And then I thought, well, no, I can't do that.

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: It looks very, very complicated. I'm thinking like – all the things you have to remember. And it takes me back to – my memory – I struggle with memorization, you know. And I'm like well, if I can't remember that they would have found a test and –

THERAPIST: So you're taking yourself out of the game before you ever join it.

CLIENT: I knock myself down.

THERAPIST: You knock yourself down. Even if you don't whether you do or don't end up being a neurophysiologist, you would enjoy the process. That's what you should like about your mind. If you want to do math, you just read a book and do it, all right? If you want to do neurophysiology, whether or not you become a neurophysiologist, you just like reading about it and knowing about it. So why do you put this damper on your own progress, your own mind, by either pointing out the flaws or by saying what you can't do.

CLIENT: Well you know it's because, I can take in the information –

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: And it takes me right back to I don't know if I really am getting it right – you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: And what would getting it right look like?

CLIENT: All "A"s.

THERAPIST: Why is that getting it right? Why is the grade someone else assigns you –?

CLIENT: Because I think it makes me sort of like I'm really competent in that area. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: So an "A" means competence.

CLIENT: Well, it means that you definitely know your stuff.

THERAPIST: Oh, are you sure? So anyone who gets an "A" automatically knows his or her stuff.

CLIENT: As long as they weren't cheating.

THERAPIST: Not necessarily. So – and knowing your stuff is defined as what?

CLIENT: Okay, like if you were to ask me something and I should know.

THERAPIST: Give me the classes that you've had that you should have gotten an "A" in. Give me two examples. [00:17:20]

CLIENT: That I' gotten an "A" in. What classes have I taken?

THERAPIST: Have you taken any psych classes?

CLIENT: I've taken psychology 101.

THERAPIST: And did you get an A in it?

CLIENT: I would have but I didn't take my finals so I got a B.

THERAPIST: But you would have.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And how long ago did you take it? Explain classical conditioning.

CLIENT: Who?

THERAPIST: Classical conditioning.

CLIENT: I don't remember.

THERAPIST: Okay. So here's my point and it doesn't matter –

CLIENT: Oh, I see.

THERAPIST: What.

CLIENT: Oh, okay, well I could have gotten an A in it but it doesn't mean I'm going to remember what –

THERAPIST: Thank you!

CLIENT: (Laughing) Okay. I'm a little slow.

THERAPIST: (Laughing) I thought you were going to tell me about classical conditioning and I was going to be really pissed. My point is –

CLIENT: I don't remember.

THERAPIST: I am sure I took political science around 1992 and I remember getting an A in it. I don't remember anything about the class.

CLIENT: Oh, so I don't have to feel bad about that.

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: You know, I am so serious.

THERAPIST: So do you really think that you're supposed to remember everything?

CLIENT: Well, at least something.

THERAPIST: Yvette, I'm starting to think that you have some very unrealistic expectations for what it's all supposed to look like. Just because you get an A you're supposed to remember all that information lifelong? Your brain is an efficient machine that dumps stuff you don't need or encodes it and puts it in the brain – You know, it's either in the recycle bin and when you become a neurophysiologist, you can tell me more about this, but it's encoded in the brain somewhere but it's not part of your active knowledge base right now because you don't need it.

CLIENT: You store it somewhere and once it's jogged then maybe I'll –

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'm sure Spanish in my head somewhere is stored somewhere –

CLIENT: I know, me too!

THERAPIST: But I don't know where. I can't get to it easily. It doesn't mean I didn't learn it or get an A in it. Getting an A does not mean you're smart and it doesn't mean you know it.

CLIENT: Okay. That's true because I don't.

THERAPIST: You really think that you're supposed to actively remember all those classes.

CLIENT: By my right hand I'm telling you, I thought that I was supposed to be able to –

THERAPIST: Where did you get that idea?

CLIENT: It's just been in me all my life. I'm serious. I've always thought like that. [00:19:49]

THERAPIST: You've always – okay, let me make sure I understand that. If you could go back to second grade math in your head because there's a file folder in your head that you pull out – second grade math – and because you did well in second grade you're supposed to access all that information – you mean like that?

CLIENT: Well, maybe not all of it – but the majority.

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: You know, I am so serious. I (cross talk).

THERAPIST: Do you know anyone who can do that?

CLIENT: Well, no, not really. I mean, no. Unless it's their specialty.

THERAPIST: That's not – nobody can do that. That's not the way – no.

CLIENT: I mean it just sounds so, like – really?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I've been thinking like that forever.

THERAPIST: No.

CLIENT: You know, because I would think that – okay, here's like you have the lawyer, he has his desk here and behind him are all these books and everything. And I'd be like, oh that's just for show. It looks really nice and everything because he has it all here.

THERAPIST: He has all those books up here?

CLIENT: I mean, well, not all of them but like a lot of the information and you know, I would think that every now and then he'd have to reference something.

THERAPIST: Do you know what graduate school teaches you? How to find the information.

CLIENT: See – that's where the research and stuff – you know, and I always ask myself – why do I have to do all this research?

THERAPIST: Because it teaches you how to find the information, not to memorize.

CLIENT: Not to memorize. Oh!

THERAPIST: You look relieved.

CLIENT: I mean because, yeah.

THERAPIST: What does that mean to you, then?

CLIENT: Oh man, like a load off.

THERAPIST: Okay. Can we say that you're smart then?

CLIENT: I would say, I'm all right. (Pause) I mean, for real – I could say (laughs) I mean, well, hmm.

THERAPIST: If being smart no longer means that you have to have all that information stored in your head – and honestly, I'll tell you from being a teacher, if I ask my students one semester or five semesters after they've had me for a class – what they got out of the class – they can explain it to me maybe in five minutes. So you take a 16-week semester and explain it in five minutes – that means they haven't taken in everything I said. And that' fine. It doesn't mean they didn't learn anything. [00:22:19]

CLIENT: Okay, so that's what I would be thinking. Okay, I know my teacher sat up here and she explained and she talked and she showed me this and showed me that now if I can't go back and remember then I would feel like she would feel – okay, I sat here all this time and you didn't get it, you didn't get it? I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, like I said, if I couldn't tell them what I've learned in 16 weeks in five minutes or at least the gist of it, that they wouldn't be – of what's the word for it?

THERAPIST: Disappointed?

CLIENT: Yeah, somewhat.

THERAPIST: Why should they be?

CLIENT: Well, because I couldn't tell them anything that they told me.

THERAPIST: You could have. You could tell them the main idea of what you learned.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, I could do that. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I wonder where this comes from from you.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: So in some ways it goes back to not appreciating your mind, your meta-cognition, you know. Knowing what you know.

CLIENT: Knowing what you know.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Hmm. I'll have to think about that.

THERAPIST: And appreciating how bright you are. That doesn't mean you have all the answers.

CLIENT: Right. That makes a lot of sense.

THERAPIST: It really speaks more to your ability to learn something. Yes. To your ability to retain something, but I think all we really retain are the main points of things.

CLIENT: That makes a lot of sense.

THERAPIST: So how does that – does that change anything for you, Yvette, in terms of how you feel about how bright you are now that we've changed the definition of what it means to be smart?

CLIENT: I think so.

THERAPIST: Explain.

CLIENT: I feel like lighter.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Know what I mean? Because if I – okay, I don't have to put all this pressure on myself. Just do what you know how to do and let it be that.

THERAPIST: Yes!

CLIENT: Yes! I mean, yes!

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Okay, I know that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I know my son back in my head – he was on speakerphone and my sister was asking him, what is your mother doing? Oh, she's just probably doing more work than she needs to.

THERAPIST: So what do you take that to mean?

CLIENT: I take that to mean that I don't have to know every little bit and piece and that's why it takes me back to when I'm reading something –

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I will stop so I can break it down and make sure that I'm getting it so that everything else makes sense later. I don't have to do that. Just read.

THERAPIST: Just read. And then you go back and you pull out the – you read for the main idea and then you pull out the parts that you need.

CLIENT: Pull out the parts that I need.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Because I'm telling you, it would take me so long to read something I would get frustrated, you know. And I would ask myself, why can't I just read and I would tell myself over and over, I have that book in my hands and just read, Yvette, just do it.

THERAPIST: Okay. Well, there's nothing wrong with reading and then stopping to go, now what did I just take in?

CLIENT: Well, no, it's like when I realize that that happens, okay, maybe I'm reading it too slow and I'm focusing too much on the wrong thing. So, just read it. And when I just read it and I'm just reading and that's okay. Then I run across a word that I'm not so sure, and I have to get the dictionary and that dictionary stays next to me.

THERAPIST: We talked about that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Then once I break it down I substitute that word for the other word – for the synonym or what have you – and then I'll start reading to read.

THERAPIST: But that stops your flow.

CLIENT: It stops my flow.

THERAPIST: So in some ways this goes back to the fact that, you know, you're in speech club and they recognize you as a leader. They get you to talk the first evening. Other people recognize your talent and skills, but you don't.

CLIENT: Okay – I'm going to – see what you think about this.

THERAPIST: You can't be having any fun, by the way.

CLIENT: Actually, a little, not much.

THERAPIST: With your mind? Do you enjoy your mind? How smart you are? How well you learn things?

CLIENT: Do I? I don't know. You know, I think I get frustrated when I think – I feel bombarded with everything and like shit is just closing in on me like and I have to figure out how – I'm disorganized, firstly. And I'm trying to organize everything – like what's most important? What's due now? And then, I don't know, some kind of way my brain starts going in there trying to do everything at the same time – a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And I say, wait – that's not the right thing to do. Just take one thing, go ahead and try to finish. And be done with that and then start on the next thing. [00:28:00]

CLIENT: So we can work on organization.

THERAPIST: I need to do that.

CLIENT: That's not necessarily a sign of intelligence or not. We can do that.

THERAPIST: And guess what happened? Okay, I wrote my speech out.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Right? I want to be prepared. I know that I'm in a learning mode but at the same time it's like I have to psyche myself out and say, okay, you can do this. Just go up there and do what you have to do. You're the icebreaker. They're going to give you a word for the day. You know what your theme is and who better to talk about yourself than you?

CLIENT: And you did it?

THERAPIST: I did it. Guess what? I didn't have any notes – only because I wrote out the speech but didn't remember what I wrote. I didn't have time to type it up, didn't have time to hit my main points on my little cards so that I would be prepared and look professional and everything. I had to go up there with nothing.

CLIENT: And you did it. And the things you wrote down – were they incorporated into the speech?

THERAPIST: The opening. And that was it.

CLIENT: Everything else was just – I just started talking.

THERAPIST: But that's my whole point. Knowing how your brain works. So you sat down and thought about what you were going to say. So you did prepare. You just didn't prepare the way someone else told you to prepare with note cards. But you didn't need note cards. You thought through your speech, you wrote it down. You got up, presented it, used the parts written down before that were relevant and then changed it to match whatever was happening for you at the time.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Okay, but can you imagine what it would be like if we took the part out where you beat yourself up and judged yourself by the fact that you didn't use note cards and just enjoy – excuse me, the fact that you did a good job?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah what?

CLIENT: That would be good. Yes.

THERAPIST: Yeah. You have all these preconceived notions about what smart looks like and smart looks very different depending on who you are. It's like all these physical bodies are different. Like medically, who can climb 20 flights of stairs and who can't. You know, all of our bodies are able to do different things. Well, all of our minds do different things as well. Everybody's brain is different.

CLIENT: It's like I know that. So maybe I'm setting my expectations like way above abnormal like, and I need to bring it down a notch, or two or three. And that feels pretty good to say that. You know what I mean? And I want to do that. Yeah, I'm going to focus more on relaxing. [00:31:13]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: You know, not –

THERAPIST: What would that look like, Yvette?

CLIENT: What would that look like? Oh, man. No homework for the day. Watch me some TV.

THERAPIST: And what would that do for you?

CLIENT: Probably put me to sleep. (Laughs) But I think that would feel really, really nice to do that. You know, I would feel – maybe I would let loose a little bit. Then somewhere in the back of mind I'd be thinking, did I do everything I was supposed to do? Did I finish this? Did I do this? You know, so I'm really at the point right now – how do I relax so I feel if I do relax I will be much better, you know, when I get ready to start. Because now I'm starting fresh. But you know, while I'm trying to relax I can't because my brain's still going and it's telling me, can you just finish this, did you do this, did you do that? Is anything due? Are you late with anything?

THERAPIST: So that in some ways sounds like maybe getting you better organized will help you –

CLIENT: That's what I'm thinking.

THERAPIST: Well, we can do that. We can make lists.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But I just wonder what it would be like for you if you could appreciate what your smart looks like for you.

CLIENT: I want to know that too. I really do.

THERAPIST: What if you know it already?

CLIENT: What. Okay, I don't understand.

THERAPIST: Well, I want to know it you said. What if you already know it? What if it's just about appreciating your mind now? And that doesn't mean putting your feet up. I mean smart people like to continue to learn things. So you still will. So you'll be in Toastmasters and you will push yourself to learn things but what if you can actually do that knowing you already have the basic foundation for being a smart person and just enjoying the things that your mind can do.

CLIENT: That's what I want to do. I want to enjoy that.

THERAPIST: You have the tools to do that today.

CLIENT: Why (laughing).

THERAPIST: You can do that today, right now. It's about focusing on the things that you can do –

CLIENT: Can do.

THERAPIST: And that you do well by recognizing that nobody does things perfectly.

CLIENT: I think what I do well is helping other people.

THERAPIST: Well, that's one thing you do well. But you just got up and gave a speech at Toastmasters on the first night and enjoyed it.

CLIENT: Yes!

THERAPIST: Wouldn't you say that's doing well?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Why can't you enjoy that?

(Pause): [00:33:49 00:33:57]

CLIENT: I think I did.

THERAPIST: Okay! How come you didn't know that you did?

(Pause): [00:34:03 00:34:08]

CLIENT: Well, because I'm focusing on what I can do to improve.

THERAPIST: That's always there.

CLIENT: That's always there.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's always there. There's no problem with going, that was really good and next time I want to make sure I do this, but overall I'm pleased. There's nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you've got it flipped and you seem to focus more on what could have been better over the fact you said an "ah" which nobody heard but you and the counter in the corner of the room.

CLIENT: Uh huh.

THERAPIST: As opposed to focusing on, I liked that, I did that well. That's what I mean about appreciating your mind, your talents and your skills. All these things that you enjoy and do well.

CLIENT: I'm going to do that. I'm going to –

THERAPIST: Are you?

CLIENT: I am going to do that.

THERAPIST: Because you know this is like – I don't know what session this is for us, but those two points – we've still got to look at the other one – but this is the point we always get to.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Other people see things in you. You have to see them in you now.

CLIENT: I'm looking for them. I am. I am searching hard.

THERAPIST: I don't understand why you're still looking instead of just knowing they're there.

CLIENT: Okay. Well I feel like I'm okay. I feel like – how can I say it. Well I know that I'm a people person, you know. I was just talking to someone I had never met before and we like exchanged phone numbers. So I am happy with that. I am comfortable with that.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I was told something yesterday that I'd never thought about. The president of speech club said, I see you as an educator right here, you know, a motivational speaker. And I said, ‘I can see motivational speaker.

THERAPIST: Well, you've been told that before.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I can't see the teaching part and I say that only because I feel like I don't want to be that person that gives someone else advice, or tries to teach somebody else something that I am not confident with in myself that – you know what I mean? That wasn't given them 100%. Now –

THERAPIST: Is that what every teacher does?

CLIENT: That's what I wanted to ask because I really need to know that.

THERAPIST: Well, what's a good teacher do?

CLIENT: They teach. They're compassionate about what they're teaching. They're compassionate about their students. You know they want to make sure they get the information that they understand.

THERAPIST: How did you teach your sons things as they were growing up?

CLIENT: I don't know. I just told them. I just set them down and I took my time.

THERAPIST: How did you teach them to tie their shoes?

CLIENT: One step at a time.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: What did the process look like?

(Pause): [00:37:28 00:37:35]

THERAPIST: I mean, do you still tie their shoes for them?

CLIENT: Oh no.

THERAPIST: Well, when did you stop?

CLIENT: (Laughs) When I taught them. At the very beginning. It's like it didn't –

THERAPIST: So you taught them and then what did you do?

CLIENT: And then I let them go. I let them tie their own shoes.

THERAPIST: Isn't that what a good teacher does?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Help provide someone with a tool so that they can do it themselves.

CLIENT: So they can do it themselves.

THERAPIST: Does that mean you have to be 100% right and know everything?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: No. But you help students get in touch with their own tools, right?

CLIENT: Yes. Yeah. So – well I'll be dogged. You know when you say it, I just have to hear it. You know (cross talk)

THERAPIST: So it isn't being a good student about having the tools to learn?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And do you think that smart people have tools that they readily access to learn?

CLIENT: Well, there has to be someone there to give it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but then they have the tools.

CLIENT: Well, they have the tools, yeah.

THERAPIST: Well, that's what it's about.

(Pause): [00:38:36 00:38:40]

THERAPIST: You know, you could have a carpenter who's brilliant and you can give me the same set of tools and I can't do a thing with them. Those aren't my tools.

CLIENT: Gotcha. Makes sense.

THERAPIST: So isn't it about knowing what tools work for you?

CLIENT: Knowing what tools work for you. Yes.

THERAPIST: That's being smart and you have always known what tools work for you, whether it's surviving in your family environment, whether it's going to school. You have always known what tools work for you. Wouldn't you say that's being smart?

CLIENT: That's being smart.

THERAPIST: Then you should let the rest go and enjoy that. You will always learn to pick up the right tool for you. That's being smart.

(Pause): [00:39:24 00:39:30]

THERAPIST: Tell me where you are with what I'm saying.

CLIENT: Well, I just never thought of it that way.

THERAPIST: And – why are you crying. Tell me –

CLIENT: (Crying) Oh my goodness. I had to hear that.

THERAPIST: What are you feeling right now?

CLIENT: Well, that feels good.

THERAPIST: What feels good?

CLIENT: Well, it's like I know I know what I know. But I always felt like it wasn't enough. But now like when I hear it –

THERAPIST: You know what?

CLIENT: Know that I can – I have what I've always needed – I mean –

THERAPIST: You have what you always needed. It's enough. Yeah. And it doesn't have anything to do with memorizing anything.

THERAPIST: Anything.

CLIENT: So you know it's enough.

THERAPIST: It's enough.

CLIENT: It's enough.

THERAPIST: That you need. You have always relied on your set of tools. Okay. It's really about knowing the tools that you need to do well and you know your tools. Right? They're not a carpenter's tools. They might be a nurse's tools or a teacher's tools. That part can be figured out.

THERAPIST: My tools are a pen and paper. They're not a hammer and nail but the hammer and nail is equally as important as the pen and paper, right?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Just one is important for one environment and one is important to another. You have the tools and being smart is about having the tools to do what you need to do and knowing how to use them. And you do and it's enough. So some people need no cards. You didn't.

CLIENT: Yeah, and that felt good. Oh my goodness. I actually had to hear that.

THERAPIST: So you heard it.

CLIENT: Wow. Yeah. It just seemed like I should already know this. [00:41:33]

THERAPIST: We said we're not doing that anymore.

CLIENT: Oh, we're not doing that any more.

THERAPIST: What is powerful about that for you enough to make you cry?

CLIENT: Well, I'll always have what I needed, I just didn't know it.

THERAPIST: Yes, but yet you still relied on it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But that's what being smart and enjoying it is. Knowing you have the tools Knowing you know how to use them even if you encounter a situation where you get scared or you don't know, knowing you can figure it out or you can ask someone – that's what being smart and enjoying it is. Like I can figure it out, just like last week you told me. You know someone asked me to tutor he or she at math and I don't really remember but I'll pick up the book and I'll figure it out. All right, that's what being smart is, and that's what enjoying it is. And that's what being competent in your own mind looks like,

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: If you and I go take a test it doesn't matter if I study five hours and you study two – it doesn't matter. I know what I need to do for me and you know what you need to do for you and that's being smart.

CLIENT: Oh God, you make it seem so simple. And it is.

THERAPIST: And it is.

CLIENT: It is. It is so simple.

THERAPIST: You should enjoy it. You should enjoy it. Enjoy your brain, the fact that you know what to do and you know when you don't know how to know, how to learn. That's being smart.

CLIENT: Recognizing.

THERAPIST: It's not always what you know, a lot of times it's about the process of learning it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you're great at the process. And lots of people recognize that about you. It's time for you to celebrate that and embrace that, put it inside of you and make it –

CLIENT: For myself.

THERAPIST: Yes! And enjoy it.

CLIENT: Whoo! Wow! (Laughs) Oh my goodness. It's a load off.

THERAPIST: Good!

CLIENT: Okay, so when I go home and I get ready to go tackle my next assignment or whatever, I'm going to do what I know I know how to do and it's simple, just do it and be done with that and next whatever happens, just go ahead and do it.

THERAPIST: So enjoy being a good student. It's not about – who cares if you turn it in late. I mean that's a whole other issue and it has nothing to do with how smart you are. You turned it in. You know. So enjoy your mind. Don't judge every little thing. Don't evaluate every little thing.

CLIENT: Yeah, I have to stop that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, because it's not the truth.

CLIENT: I'm going to stop that.

THERAPIST: I don't want to see it.

CLIENT: Yeah, I am going to stop that because I am so sick and tired of doing that. You know? Stopping – oh you know this is not – but I have to – oh no, I'm just going to do it.

THERAPIST: I want to see that. I believe you.

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm just going to do it. I actually had to hear that.

THERAPIST: Good!

CLIENT: I'm glad I heard that.

THERAPIST: I'm you did too. CLIENT: I'm glad you said it.

THERAPIST: Because I think it's very interesting that this is the place we always come back to – every session.

CLIENT: And I never realized that.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but if you could just learn to enjoy what you're doing, who you are, how you think and how hard you work and just live in that as opposed to the fact that nothing is perfect and maybe you could have done this more – and at 44, you have every permission in the world to enjoy the hell out of that.

CLIENT: Ooh yeah, my God. I'm not getting any younger.

THERAPIST: And I, you know, I'm about 40, so I don't mean that as an age thing, but I mean there's a certain freedom that comes with being a woman over 40. Where you can go, you know what? I am smart!

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah, look at me.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Oh my goodness. Yes.

THERAPIST: I want you to practice that this week. That's your homework.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm gonna. It's already done.

THERAPIST: All right. I want to see that. Let me know –

CLIENT: It's already done. (Cross talk)

THERAPIST: Okay, let me know how you enjoy your mind this week.

CLIENT: I will.

THERAPIST: Figure out your tools.

CLIENT: You know, I might watch those game shows for a reason.

THERAPIST: That's right.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Good for you, Yvette.

CLIENT: Wow!

THERAPIST: All right?

CLIENT: Break through, hey!

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: So I will see you next week.

CLIENT: Yes.

END TRANSCRIPT