TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Where are you?

CLIENT: I feel like I'm a mess today.

THERAPIST: Aww.

CLIENT: I'm glad you have tissues out. I've been like crying all morning. I feel like at first it was funny like even just yesterday I was thinking; I actually made it through like a tough week. I think I'll have some good things to report and then I just feel like everything kind of just fell apart today. I'm just having more of those feelings of just like not doing a good job at anything, like trying to be a good mom and trying to be a good wife and trying to be a good student and it's just like really hard.

THERAPIST: It's a lot of things to juggle.

CLIENT: I know, yeah. And I feel like so Trae has been kind of he's just had a little cold and we've noticed that his cough has been getting worse and today was like the one day in my whole week pretty much that he had like a whole interrupted day besides this, but this counts (laughs) as productive and it's just like getting my own thing done so I was just looking forward to today and Todd was going to stay home with Trae until my mom came and usually I'm home with him in the mornings and then in the morning though I called the doctor just to see if we maybe should bring him in and she was just going to call us back to give us a phone consult so I didn't know what to do.

Like I kind of felt it was silly to go in to school if then like I would want to turn around and go with him to the appointment. So I was kind of like wasting time at home when I could have like my plan was to get in right away and then I just like felt myself getting more and more just like annoyed because I wanted to be there for Trae and figure out you know I knew it wasn't a big deal, but I just wanted to hear that we didn't need to bring him in or if we did, like it would just make me feel better. And feeling that feeling and then also just like this is my one day to like really plow through some stuff to try and make the week a little bit more manageable and so I think it was hard for Todd to understand that because I think he was just like, ‘well, just go,' like get on the bus and go, like it's fine.

But I just didn't know what to do and then that made things really tense between me and Todd and then I ended up missing the bus and then he ended up driving me into school which I also felt badly about because I just like, and I think we talked about this last time. I feel like he's doing so much of the work right now, especially in crunch time. I feel like my first priority is Trae and then it's getting work done so I'm not being there for him, yeah, and not doing except for the house and so I just feel like it all like kind of came down to today and I feel like I've been trying to put everything in perspective and I talked to Todd after he dropped me off. I talked to my mom and we had a plan like she would bring him in and I would meet him at the doctor but then I talked to the doctor and we didn't need to bring him in after all and then Todd just stopped by and brought me flowers to my office so I feel like everything is falling in place (laugh/cry?) I know. But it just has been a lot.

THERAPIST: It is a lot.

CLIENT: I'm really over tired and I hate using getting my period as an excuse, but I feel like I am like I never was a person who got like PMS before but now it's come back and I feel like that's been really strong.

THERAPIST: When did it come back?

CLIENT: Early, like maybe when he was like four months old. I was shocked. But I have noticed like a big difference like emotionally and it happens to be on Tuesdays (laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: We could probably trace my sessions of wanting to cry to those times but I think it all is just kind of like coming to a head.

THERAPIST: I don't think at all there is something emotional going on when you get your period.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's undeniable. There are hormonal fluctuations in your body and to say that they don't have some impact I think is kind of crazy.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So of course they do. Does it make you a crazy person? No.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But you're going to feel things maybe more intensely because of that and there may be some shifts, you know postpartum.

CLIENT: Yeah, I wonder.

THERAPIST: You've still only had a few cycles.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: You're still breast feeding. That changes hormones and you are completely sleep deprived and there is a lot that you're juggling. All these things are true and you feel really pulled in different directions.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think, too, I think being worried about Trae not feeling well and then we had this weird thing at day care yesterday that has totally stuck with me and I don't even know why, but when I picked him from day care yesterday and we've had a great experience with that, like it's been going really well, but he still had like cereal from the morning like on his face and in his hair and stuff and when I picked him up I didn't even think about it to ask them or even like a make a joke with them. I don't think I would have directly said like, ‘why didn't you wash his face,' but like, I could have made a joke that maybe brought it up to talk about it but it didn't even occur to me then but once I got him home, like it made me feel that like all I could say to Todd when I was saying it was like I feel funny about it and he was like, ‘well, I don't really know what you mean,' and it was like an unsettling feeling and I feel like that's kind of stuck with me, too. (Cross talk) [00:05:33]

THERAPIST: that didn't show the kind of detailed nurturance that you wanted.

CLIENT: Yeah. Which they have been showing but something about yesterday like I don't know if it was a busy day for her or what happened, but usually they'll be so funny and they'll always change his clothes no matter if he's gotten them dirty or not, like they always change his clothes and do a fresh outfit when we pick him up and when I picked him up yesterday they hadn't changed him and then I noticed all the like breakfast in his hair and stuff and that's really sat funny with me, too, and I think that may be another thing contributing to like feeling like I'm not doing a good job on any front right now, you know.

THERAPIST: That's really hard to feel like you're failing your own expectations.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I know that's what like I leave cereal in his hair all the time (laughs) but there is just something about that like -

THERAPIST: What did it mean to you?

CLIENT: I think that just like they weren't paying like such careful attention like it was hard to see that it was in his hair so I know they are like watching him and keeping him safe, but I think that that like little detail that they overlooked or something just felt funny, yeah.

THERAPIST: You want more than just keeping him safe.

CLIENT: Yeah, which they usually do. I think also it may be just like surprised me, too, because they're always like holding him and cuddling him when I pick him up and can I grab a tissue?

THERAPIST: Of course you can.

CLIENT: Thank you. So it was like kind of uncharacteristic of them, too, I think.

THERAPIST: Something just felt off.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know what it was but I think that just like added to it, too.

THERAPIST: So nothing's quite gone the way you wanted it to. In big ways and in little ways.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Having your plan set up for like this is the day you're going to be able to focus on school stuff and everything kind of thwarted that.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And expecting to have like a really good feeling when you picked him up at day care and feel like you have some sort of evidence of things going the way you want and it didn't.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So it's really disappointing or

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're coping with a lot of disappointment.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think because I had like such a stressful week last week just, part of me is proud of myself because I actually did fine sleeping which I was just like shocked because I stayed up till like probably till 1 every night last week working on a final that was due on Thursday. But I still like my plan, like I would work and then just stop and pump after and watch TV to just kind of unwind and then go to bed and that seemed to be working but it was just like a really intense week trying to get that final done and I think I put too much pressure on myself because it was, we had a draft due that our professor read and our colleagues read and we kind of work shopped it in class where everyone gave their feedback. So I worked really hard on the draft thinking if I work really hard on this then for the final it won't be a crazy week so I felt like I did put a lot of time into it and I didn't get the best feedback which was hard like -

THERAPIST: Another disappointing thing.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I had to keep telling myself like the class is called portraiture so it's like a way of writing up qualitative findings that's very different like it's almost like an artful kind of writing like you use lots of like metaphors and figurative language so it's really different than the writing that I'm used to. And so I knew that going in and like there's a lot of even people in my class who are literature majors or creative writing majors so it's just like a really different thing for me to do which I liked but I think that was hard, too, because then I got kind of like negative feedback but not presented like in a mean way, like it was all very constructive.

THERAPIST: But you were kind of thinking, ‘yeah it's supposed to be a draft but mine's pretty much a final version.'

CLIENT: Yeah, that's what I was hoping for and so getting that feedback and, especially from my professor like knowing that that draft did not do the job for her, like I felt like I put too much pressure on myself to try and get it to what I wanted it to be that I was working until the last possible second which is so unlike me. I was like printing it out five minutes before the class. I was running to the computer lab and that again, is so not my style you know like it was just not my style. You know it was just really -

THERAPIST: So you're just not being yourself, you're not living up to your expectations.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: And that's a really unsettling feeling.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like, who is this person?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: That's living in my body.

CLIENT: Yeah, I definitely felt very unlike me and then even turning it in like I knew it was just so hard to let it go and I kept telling myself I can take the weekend like last weekend like I don't want to do too much work ‘cause I know I need a few days to just unwind because it was just such a stressful week and I could just even when I turned it in, like that night, a Friday it was just hard to let it go. And again, I was thinking of little phrases like that I needed to worry about like and with this it's not like you can't plagiarize because it didn't even have a reference list. But like I even let my mind wander to we were able to give feedback on each other's drafts and so one of my friends like did track changes and a few like phrases he suggested and things like that and I accepted one of his phrases and even that after I turned it in I was like, ‘well, was that wrong like I used a three word phrase that he suggested?' And I know that that's not wrong, she wanted us to (cross talk) [00:11:28]

THERAPIST: She gave you that.

CLIENT: But I think I was just so like, it was such a stressful moment to try to get that in that it was really hard for me to let it go, but I actually did like sleep that night and then I did let it go so that kind of made me feel better, that I recognized what I was doing and felt kind of unsettled but it did go away because it was that feeling and I always will print it out and will read it over very carefully and I never even got to do that. It just wasn't my typical thing.

THERAPIST: Wasn't really typical.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I definitely felt bad but I got over it, so that was kind of a good feeling going into this week.

THERAPIST: To cope with something that didn't go as expected. It sounds like this week there's just been too much.

CLIENT: Yeah. But at least it's almost over and my final's due on Friday but then we just have kind of like a funny day like my mom has a doctor's appointment on Thursday and usually we have her on Thursdays and then it's due on Friday but that's usually my day home with Trae so that's why I was like kind of counting a lot on today to get through in really good shape for it.

THERAPIST: Well it sounds like there's the external stressors of having final projects and final papers due and having a hard schedule and that's one thing. It sounds like you cope with pretty well, actually. You manage to get stuff done, maybe not in the style that you want to, but you are getting your stuff done and you are getting to fall to sleep and then the other thing that's going on is feeling disappointed in yourself, your internal pressures of work. I feel like I'm not being a good mom and not being a good wife and I'm not being a good student and these are all your internal pressures of what you're expectations are of what you define as being a good mom and a good wife and a good student and I think not living up to your own ideas is a different feeling than not living up to your than juggling that external stuff.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It sounds like what's got you feeling really unhappy is feeling disappointed in yourself I think more so than the anxiety and the stress of meeting your requirements.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You've got that. Yeah, it's unsettling sometimes but you know how to cope with that and I feel like your skills for that are really good. And it's this internal struggle that I think is a lot harder to manage and cope with.

CLIENT: I know like I was almost thinking I'll turn the final in and then I'll still have grading to do so I'm like officially done next Tuesday I guess, Tuesday or Monday. But then I was thinking that that will be a good feeling but I also will feel badly because I feel like I put Todd through this awful like stretch to get there, you know, like (cross talk) [00:14:32]

THERAPIST: But it's hard the way you guys have to do it right now.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What would a good wife, and a good mom and a good student be doing differently than what you're doing?

CLIENT: At least I know that all three are hard to do at once. Like my other friend who's in my portraiture class who's a mom came late to class we met after in a pub together and she started crying like we both like we knew we were like it's nice to be allowed to commiserate. But I just feel like, I feel so frazzled with work and so that feeling like just being more in control of that would feel better and then with Todd just like having more time for us and more time for me to be able to be helping so that he I know he feels like so much of like the pressure on him to like make everything else work, you know like -

THERAPIST: How do you know he feels that?

CLIENT: We've talked about it in the past. Like we definitely communicated about it. And then more recently like he'll just kind of say things like as a joke about like, we both kind of know like they're true and like he kind of means it like you know like and it's just little things and he loves to cook and he's always the one who ends up cooking and usually he'll start cooking dinner when I'm nursing Trae before bed so I never really get to contribute help with that, just the way the routine kind of goes. So, just like little things that I feel like I can't really help him with and even yesterday we switched where I brought Trae to day care and usually he does but we both went together and I said, like let me drive you to work after because he was just going to take the bus because I needed the car to pick him up and he was like, ‘no, no, like I don't want you to get stuck in traffic, then like it's more time for you to be wasting.' And so I like drove him to a bus so at least he got the bus, but afterwards I was like, I wish there was an opportunity that I could help you, at least do something for you that would be nice to help your day go a little easier but he won't even let me do that and he was doing it for me but I feel like even like, the little moments where I do try and do something to make like to almost like do what he's doing for me, give it back, I can't. There aren't those moments for me to do it so that feels really bad, too.

THERAPIST: Does he need them?

CLIENT: I don't think he needs them, but I still think they would feel good. I don't think he needs them like I do. You know, like in the morning sometimes he'll make me a lunch so that I can make the bus and you know, stuff like that that goes smoother whereas he has the car so he doesn't have to leave at that moment and it would be really nice if I made him his lunch, too. So I feel like there are these little things that I just wish I had the time to like be more appreciative of him. Yeah. And I know he knows that and I tell him that but it's different.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it does sound like you are very appreciative. You're not able to do things to show your appreciation, but it does sound like you let him know that he is appreciated. And I'm wondering as I listen to you talk are you feeling badly that you need the kind of support that you need right now, that you kind of do rely on him to drop you off or make you lunch so that you can get the door and eat?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you're kind of feeling badly that you need that right now.

CLIENT: Yeah, I do. It feels like I'm not able to me like, I mean I could make my own lunch, like I could be more independent but I do feel like I'm relying on him a lot.

THERAPIST: Is that okay with you?

CLIENT: I don't know. I almost feel like a little piece of it is that's part of being in a marriage and helping each other so I think part of it is good, but I almost feel like because this has been like such an intense semester like the amount of support he's been giving me has been like more than usual and for like that more than usual has been extended for so long that I feel like now is when I do feel like it's not so good. Which like I have a lot of friends who would be like, ‘you're crazy.' (Laughs)

THERAPIST: You're feeling less competent.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're roles are more different from each other than they've ever been.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Up until now you've been pretty not just equal roles but pretty similar roles and it sounds like you shared very egalitarian and it's become more traditional than it's ever been before.

CLIENT: But almost like traditional but like flawed like he's doing all the stereotypical like -

THERAPIST: Well, not all of them. Breast feeding a child.

CLIENT: That's true. Yes. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: And you're home a day.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're working four days a week and staying home and doing the primary child care one day a week.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So it's interesting you're seeing all the ways in which he's doing some of the sort of like additional roles that you're forgetting about what you've taken on that's different and extra.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:20:07 00:20:13]

CLIENT: And I don't think that like, I know that he's not thinking of me just like sitting back and like coasting and letting him do everything but -

THERAPIST: Sitting back and eating bonbons while he struggles to do all this stuff?

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah.

THERAPIST: There's a lot more to do than there's been in the past and you're both doing more but I think noticing how you feel almost like you're taking too much, leaning on him too much -

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think it is because I took too much on this semester, too, like it feels really good to know I won't have another semester like this even though I enjoyed my classes and it felt good to be back, like I think I just took on too much so that I think if it were the same like I was meaning to take classes again next semester I would have needed to figure out a really different plan because I feel like I'm going to get through this semester but definitely does not feel sustainable. And I know that like even talking to Todd like it doesn't feel sustainable to him either, all the extra work that he has been -

THERAPIST: Right but he can't do that forever.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I'm really glad that -

THERAPIST: You don't need to.

CLIENT: things will be different. Yeah.

THERAPIST: How will it look different next semester?

CLIENT: I think, I mean it's also like kind of an unsettling part, because I'm just not sure but I'm not going to take any classes and I only have a half a course left to take and it doesn't need to be next semester. So I'll be a teaching fellow for one course but that will really be my only obligation on campus even. So other days will just be spent out of school collecting research but I'm still trying to figure all of that out and so I don't even know what the schedule will be for going to that school.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But at least like that'll be I think a day would be like I go to the school and be collecting data and then maybe stop by my school to write memos or whatever and then can go home so I think it will be like a really different kind of routine.

THERAPIST: And does his semester change in terms of how much he teaches?

CLIENT: He'll I think he's actually end up teaching, it'll work out to the same number of courses that he's taking, or teaching. And he'll still have some courses too that he's teaching so that's been like kind of hard for him, too, because that's such a long day and then sometimes he'll get back and I'm already starting to nurse and want to go to sleep so that is kind of hard, but. Oh, me.

THERAPIST: We don't need to figure out next semester just yet but we'll be thinking about it in terms of what might feel easier just to know that what you're doing now is very time limited at this point.

CLIENT: And in a way it's kind of nice because I do feel like hopefully things will be easier for me but maybe they will stay the same for Todd and me and I can be the one to be helping him out a little bit, too. So -

THERAPIST: What do you think he'd want in terms of support from you?

CLIENT: I'm not sure, like I should probably like just ask him that because like I don't know. It's not like there are like these little things that I know he needs that make his day easier but I think it is hard that like because it's just like little things like make the structure happen, because he usually has the car and it's easier for him to go grocery shopping because he has the car and I usually (unclear) [00:23:58] So he gets stuck with that and then he gets stuck with also cooking dinner. So it's like little things like that I feel like he's a little foodie and enjoys going to the grocery store but not when he has to do it all the time and I don't think I think it would be nice for him to not have to worry about dinner, like one or two nights instead of figuring it out all the time, but our schedules are in place and we've talked about this that I feel like I wish I could help out with but like logistically, right now we just don't know how to do it, like I can't really stop on my way home from school to get groceries because physically I can't carry them in my backpack or anything, like it's just like little things right now I feel like we're kind of like stuck until the end of the semester. Like we've figured out a way to make it work but it doesn't quite work but we're going to get through it and then maybe have to readjust things. How much slack are you guys cutting yourself on things like ordering dinner or we have been ordering a lot.

THERAPIST: Pizza.

CLIENT: We've been doing that a lot.

THERAPIST: I think that's survival tactics right now.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Even though he's a little bit of a foodie.

CLIENT: He's so happy to get a frozen pizza. That's still fine, too.

THERAPIST: That's one way of helping each other out is thinking about getting where are we going to let ourselves cut corners?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Just relax the standard a little bit so that nobody has to be doing all the work.

CLIENT: Right. I know, I think sometimes like I think maybe just because he knows like that's like a nice way for us to relax together that he likes to cook a nice dinner and I'll say let's just eat a bowl of cereal, like I don't care, like think of something easy. I think that's like a way for him to unwind sometimes when he has the time but then I think he also knows that's a way for us to unwind when we can sit down and like have a nice dinner together.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so doing a mix of that, when there are nights you do have a nice dinner together and nights when you share dinner over bowls of cereal.

CLIENT: Yeah (laughs).

THERAPIST: You can still spend the time together.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Even though it might not be as gourmet.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Any other things that you might not have done in the past that it makes sense to do like in the crunch times or like you know like ordering from Peapod and things like that, you know, that might make sense once in a while to do that and then you can take over and nobody has to go out or take the extra time.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And it might not come up to standard, but getting creative -

CLIENT: To just get through.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or just, you could surprise him and that way you could feel like you're sort of giving him back the hour.

CLIENT: Yeah, right. But I do think it would help to just ask him, too, what are the things I can -

THERAPIST: Yeah. Find out really like how he's feeling because it sounds like you're making some assumptions based on maybe little comments or maybe jokes and how true are those? Is that what he really feels or is that, was that a moment and maybe part of this is also you've probably haven't had time to sit down and have a conversation.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: It sounds like that's part of what you're feeling badly about.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So maybe having a conversation and seeing how he feels about the kind of, the different roles you guys have taken on this semester and kind of taking a status meeting of the first semester.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think will be over soon (Laughs).

THERAPIST: That will be a good time to have it under your belt and find out what he's really thinking and feeling rather than making guesses and feeling (unclear) [00:27:58]

I think I'm running out of space.

CLIENT: But I know I am kind of assuming some things, too, like this morning like when I was just saying I felt so badly that he ended up driving me in like he was home with Trae and he needed to be taking a nap and it's just not easy to pack him into the car and get him out and I just felt badly about that and seeing like I'm sad, like I'm worried like you're getting resentful. I feel like you're just doing everything and he was saying that he didn't feel that way and that he was just trying to help but I also want him to, and I said, ‘but I want to make sure, like you're being honest.' A feeling I would be getting about it if I was doing all that. So I think it will help because I think I am making some assumptions, I guess, but.

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