TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Flexible about switching to this day.
THERAPIST: You're welcome.
CLIENT: That worked out well.
THERAPIST: If I have room to move too, we can always move.
CLIENT: Perfect. Yeah, we headed to my grandmother's in Indiana last weekend, and I knew we didn't want to get such a late start on Friday, so that worked out really well.
THERAPIST: So, how are you?
CLIENT: Good. I feel like it's been nice to just have some time to kind of relax a little bit. And I think one of my fears before this kind of happened was what was I going to do with myself, like was I just going to start to get antsy, because I actually had time on my hands? But I feel like I have kind of a good balance right now because Trae's in daycare two days a week and my mom hasn't been coming down to watch him, so I've been home with him for three days. So it's been good, because I have work to do, but it's right now at least, feeling manageable to have those two days, and then to have the three days home with him has been really, really nice. So it's been nice to just have like -
THERAPIST: A little bit of a return to leave. [0:01:05.0]
CLIENT: Yeah, it definitely feels like that and it feels so different than the past few months, like it definitely feels like it's a nice little break. Even though I have stuff to be doing, it feels kind of like just the right amount, because I think if I had nothing to be doing in terms of work, I would really not know what to do with myself.
THERAPIST: That would be too much of a switch.
CLIENT: Yeah. So that's felt good, but I feel like we've been having another slump (chokes up a little) with breastfeeding.
THERAPIST: Oh, no.
CLIENT: I'm definitely in a much better spot now, but I think if I had come on Friday, I would have been like totally different, because that's when it was not going so well, and I was just like even hesitant to cancel the appointment. But it's nice that I was thinking a lot about it and my worries all around it aren't like, they don't feel like anxious worries. It's more just me feeling sad, like it's not the kind of worry that's not going to let me sleep or gives me kind of that like agitated feeling.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So in that sense it's nice, but I feel like that's kind of like...
THERAPIST: Yeah. You don't like to feel sad either. [0:02:05.0]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But it feels like it's a reaction to something that's really going on, it sounds like, rather than something that you've kind of created in your head.
CLIENT: Yeah. It's funny how I really feel like such a difference between those two kinds of worries, and I do feel like things are getting better now. But I think I was looking forward to the holidays and like knowing we were going to get to see everybody and like, you know, I knew we had some traveling ahead of us, and that part was nice, but I think I just didn't think of it logistically now that we have Trae. You know, like it was just a lot different.
THERAPIST: Traveling is harder.
CLIENT: So all the traveling, like packing and unpacking and driving, and he is so good about traveling. During the day, he's totally fine, but I feel like at nighttime, he gets so thrown off and he doesn't usually nap well if we're up and, you know, just in a new place. So he just got totally thrown off with his naps and nighttime, which then I kind of see that correlating, like when he's overtired and stuff, he doesn't do as well nursing and sleeping well. [0:03:09.2]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: So I think it was like a perfect storm of him just us kind of toting him around everywhere and then when we're not like at home, usually he doesn't nurse as well, which is sometimes kind of frustrating, because it also feels like we have to have all these factors like come into play perfectly for him to really be able to settle down and nurse for a long time. We have to be at home, it has to be quiet, like I have the lights off, and sometimes that's impossible to reproduce when we're at my grandmother's or we're at my sister in-law's.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So all of that was just kind of hard, and then I noticed a huge dip in my milk supply, I think because he just wasn't nursing as much. And so this time around was different, because I feel like in the past, when he hasn't been nursing well, I would be so worried about his weight. But this time around, like I knew that his weight was fine and in the midst of it kind of has been going on for like a little over two weeks now, and in the midst of that we had his nine month appointment and he had gained weight, and his pediatrician was really happy with that. So the weight part was kind of gone, but I think now I'm so worried about my supply.
THERAPIST: Mm. [0:04:22.5]
CLIENT: And so I've been like pumping extra and just trying to like think of all the things that I can do to keep that going. So in a sense it's nice that I'm not so worried about him not gaining, because he's doing so well.
THERAPIST: You've transferred that to something else. You're worried that you're not providing.
CLIENT: I know, yeah, yeah. And then worried, like I think now just like where it is in the timing too, that earlier on, it was overwhelming, thinking like oh, if I wanted to try and nurse until a year, we still have so much longer to go, but now that we are so close, part of me is wondering, is he just self-weaning, like is he just ready to be done, and I'm not? (chuckles) So I think I've been trying to put it in perspective, that I think it's more about me now than it is about him. Like I know he's gaining weight.
THERAPIST: That's really important to you.
CLIENT: The pediatrician is fine, like she's like if he's cutting back on nursing, it's not that big of a deal, and so she didn't seem worried about it at all. But I think it all has to do with me like not feeling ready, and then I was thinking, and that's really not fair to him, like to be putting pressure on both of us to try to make this work, when if he's trying to tell me he's done, I shouldn't be forcing it. But I think it's kind of hard, like if he's nine and a half months old, I'm just not quite sure, like is he trying to wean or is he just going through another bad time? Can't you just talk to me and tell me? [0:05:52.4]
THERAPIST: I'm sure he's advanced but not quite that advanced.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: He can't tell you with the words.
CLIENT: Not yet. We've been doing baby sign too, but that hasn't worked either. So I feel like I'm in like a better spot, and I think even a week ago, like I just was feeling really down about it, and then I was feeling guilty because I felt like I had been stressed out from school and then that was over, and now Todd's like, "Now you've transferred that to being stressed out about nursing." And I just felt like that I was putting him through like another round of something else that he needed to like support me with, and so feeling guilty about that too. I feel like now, having had that appointment made me feel better, and then I just kind of told myself that I will just commit to pumping. I think the biggest worry on my mind when I would try to be nursing him and he wasn't, was like great, my supply. And now, I just kind of tell myself, if he doesn't want any, that means he's fine and he's not hungry, and I'll jump pump, which stinks, because I hate pumping, but that has made me feel better too, that there's like a way to get past it if he decides he doesn't want to nurse. [0:07:06.7]
THERAPIST: What would it mean to you to wean like a little bit? Like have him nurse some sessions and not others? If your supply is lower, you could do that.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And not think about it being not being totally done.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But also not feeling this pressure to keep up with a certain amount.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I know that I need to be fine with that, but then I think it's -
THERAPIST: You don't need to be. You could be but you don't need to be.
CLIENT: But I feel like I should, and I think for some reason, I'm just like, I think because we're so close to being done, like the idea of introducing formula now, like.
THERAPIST: So that's -
CLIENT: I don't know, like it shouldn't disappoint me but it kind of does.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: You know? Whereas if I had a friend that was asking for advice, I would be saying what's wrong with you, like there is nothing wrong with formula, just go for it.
THERAPIST: And that's true.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I mean, there's nothing wrong with formula. It wouldn't hurt him, he's gotten lots of benefits, but there's also nothing wrong with not using it if you don't want to.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I think the idea is to give yourself flexibility.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Not that you need to push yourself into some mold.
CLIENT: Yeah. [0:08:13.8]
THERAPIST: I mean if he's not wanting to nurse at that moment and he's getting enough calories and he's interested in food, he might not just be thirsty.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: He might reject a bottle full of formula too. But I mean, I think taking cues from him and giving yourself flexibility, that if he's not nursing this session and he wants to nurse later that's okay. If you have enough milk for some but not all, that's okay.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But it's not that you need to make yourself follow a particular plan either way.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I think I just need to be better about being flexible about it all, I think. And Todd says the same thing, he's like, "The worst thing we could have done is for you to have like set this goal, because now you want to reach it." And I know he's right, and I think I'm feeling extra, like now we've come nine and a half months, there have been lots of good parts about nursing but lots of really hard parts, and I just want to get to the year, but it's for what it's just a goal.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:09:14.7]
CLIENT: Like there isn't really...
THERAPIST: So you feel like you want to do it to get to that year, not because you feel like you still want to do it?
CLIENT: Well, I still want -
THERAPIST: Like if we fast forwarded and you felt like this, would you be okay with weaning?
CLIENT: Yeah. I think I mean, I still want to do it because, you know, I'm reading that it's best to try and do it for a year for them, just in terms of nutrition. So I feel like I would still want to keep at it. And there are definitely like moments when I love it, but there are also moments when it just gets frustrating, and I think part of it's because I know he's just not like into it at that moment, you know like he which in a way I think is nice. I've had friends that say weaning is extra hard because they know that their baby loves it so much and it's such a comfort, but I feel like that's not the case with him, like I think he'll be totally fine, it will all be me. (chuckles) So in a way I think that's good, like he does fine with the bottle.
THERAPIST: You're not worried about him being sad.
CLIENT: No, not at all. Even at night, like we have the routine of me nursing him at night for bedtime, and those nights when Todd needs to give him a bottle, if I'm not home, or sometimes he just doesn't he can't settle down, but we try a bottle just in case he really is hungry. [0:10:27.4]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: And he's fine. You know, so I don't think it's going to throw him off at all.
THERAPIST: So, I mean, I think it's okay for you to do something that feels right for you, and if that's and if what feels right for you is continuing to nurse as much as possible, and pumping to keep your supply up, so in case he wants to go back to having more frequent sessions, then that's, you know, that's fine.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You don't have to be telling yourself that you should be more open to something else, if you feel comfortable with doing those things.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: To get to this particular goal. You're not hurting anyone.
CLIENT: No, yeah. And I think at least for right now, because my schedule isn't so crazy, like I can be home and pumping.
THERAPIST: The time and space to do it, with less hassle.
CLIENT: Exactly. So I kind of feel like I'll keep at it for this month and then I wonder, once school starts back up again and once I'm trying I don't have everything figured out yet, but getting into the schedule of going to the elementary school. Then, I think it might get really tricky.
THERAPIST: A little harder. [0:11:31.9]
CLIENT: So at least I can keep trying right now and then figure it out.
THERAPIST: I forget if you've gotten your period back or not, and if the dip in production might be that.
CLIENT: Yeah, it might be.
THERAPIST: Rather than him.
CLIENT: I did a long I got it at like, he was four months old.
THERAPIST: Totally unfair.
CLIENT: It's like that is totally unfair, you know, that's what one of my friends was saying. She's like breastfeeding can be so hard, but at least you don't get your period and like it's fine. So, it could definitely be that and I totally notice a change in my mood too. I never really noticed much in terms of like PMS or whatever, before I had Trae, like occasionally I would notice, or it could have just been like I was in a bad mood or something, who know? But I really feel a difference.
THERAPIST: There's a difference now.
CLIENT: Now. And sometimes it feels silly to like blame it on that, because I know it's other factors that are in my control too, that are causing my reactions, but I feel like I have definitely noticed that too. [0:12:35.5]
THERAPIST: Some people talk about feeling a shift, having things be different postpartum.
CLIENT: Yeah. So yeah, that could be it too.
THERAPIST: And I think your milk your body is stressed when you're menstruating, so your milk production can sometimes dip with that, and it might not and if you just notice the timing, you might not feel like, you know, you don't necessarily need to pump if your production dips because you're about to get your period, because as soon as you get your period, your supply will bounce right back.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's true.
THERAPIST: So, just to make sure that you're not adding another stressor on top of something because it's not due to him skipping a session.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's true, yeah. So we'll see how it goes.
THERAPIST: It sounds like it's really kind of play it by ear.
CLIENT: I know, yeah.
THERAPIST: What he's doing week to week.
CLIENT: Yeah. And it's nice, like I feel like Todd has been so supportive of it too, but also saying like, "This is a goal you've imposed yourself. It's not like his pediatrician is telling us we need to do that." So in a sense it feels silly to be like putting pressure on myself now, when it really, it's just my goal against nothing else. [0:13:44.4]
THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.
CLIENT: So I feel like I just have to keep that in perspective too.
THERAPIST: Yeah, how much it and weighing, how much is it costing you to pursue the goal, versus what you'll get out of achieving it.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And if it's costing you more, then the pride or satisfaction that you'll get from meeting it, then it's time to reassess the goal.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But if it's worth it, then that's okay too, you know flexibility goes both ways.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's true too. So I feel like that's definitely been what has been on my mind the most, and also just like thinking too, like now that I have more downtime, like trying to figure out better, with Todd, to managing stuff. We had a big talk about that too, just so that he -
THERAPIST: You were concerned that he was feeling kind of overwhelmed by taking on some of your stuff.
CLIENT: Right. And so I feel like we've been talking about it all along, but I feel like I keep checking in with him extra now, just to make sure that he's feeling okay about it, and just trying to figure out, just logistically, how we can take less of like the work off of him I guess. [0:15:02.7]
THERAPIST: When you ask him about, how is he feeling, are you correct in assuming that he feels a little bit overwhelmed?
CLIENT: Yeah, I mean, but he's not feeling angry about it, which I think that's what I keep asking him, like I don't want him to be feeling resentful or feel like he's doing all of it, you know like that feeling of he's making everything work. And I think he knows, like he definitely feels like he's doing more work than he was before, just in terms of around the house and everything, he's saying, but you know, "We have an infant, and I was expecting that and I am glad that I can help."
THERAPIST: So it doesn't feel unbalanced to him. Yes, it feels like more, but not in a way that he's the only one doing more.
CLIENT: Right. I still feel like I want to figure out a way to like make that balance better, because I do feel like I feel like the one thing that I really don't contribute to all is like he has the car, so he usually does the grocery shopping, and then he's always making dinner. I know he enjoys doing that, but I know he doesn't all the time. And so just trying to figure out, like we've even been saying, maybe if we start meal planning or something, on the weekends, because sometimes I'll be at home, but then I don't have the car to go grocery shopping, or like I can walk, but if I really want to get everything, it's hard to carry everything.
THERAPIST: Right. [0:16:23.8]
CLIENT: It's like silly things like that, but that really prevent me from doing it.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: And so we are seeing that could help too, like if we just figure out what we want during the week, and that way the groceries are there.
THERAPIST: They're there, and then if you're home, you can be the one to start whatever it is that -
CLIENT: Yeah. And I feel like now is like a time when we can make some changes, just because I have a little bit more time at home. So that's been something that's been on my mind that I want to find a solution to, even if it just means like I'll be in charge of one night a week. I feel like that would just make him feel better.
THERAPIST: Gives him a break, yeah.
CLIENT: That would be something nice to do for him, because I know that I really appreciate when he cooks me dinner. So, I think that that will help.
THERAPIST: When he cooks, what are you doing?
CLIENT: Usually nursing, yeah, and then we get then Todd will come in and we'll read a story with him, and then we'll after Trae goes down, so.
THERAPIST: So it also makes it hard.
CLIENT: I know.
THERAPIST: Because he can't take over that. [0:17:24.0]
CLIENT: Right, no. I wish he could sometimes. But I think then, like that will kind of change too after we're done with nursing too.
THERAPIST: Right, because then the childcare is a little bit more interchangeable, you know somebody can be anybody can read a story in your household.
CLIENT: Right, yes, yeah. So I think that will kind of loosen things up a little bit. I feel like I'm kind of like dreading weaning him right now, like the end of it, but I was talking to one of my friends who now just had her third baby, and she was like, "You don't realize how much freedom you gain back, like your body finally becomes your own, like you're not totally watching the clock to make sure, like do I have to pump or do I have to nurse." She's like, "So don't forget about that part too."
THERAPIST: Yeah, that there's it's a change, but it's not necessarily just a loss.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: There's things you'll lose and things you'll gain back.
CLIENT: Yeah. So that helped, because I really wasn't thinking of it in terms of that. I was kind of just thinking about oh, I feel like this is going to be so sad. So I think that helps, because it is, it's hard to just be like... Even just leaving the house, thinking like oh, will I be back in time, should I bring the pump, like what should I do. [0:18:37.0]
THERAPIST: Constantly, there's always this calculation of milk.
CLIENT: Exactly.
THERAPIST: Do you have enough or when will he need it. Yeah, so just to free up the brain space that you're devoting to that right now.
CLIENT: I know, yeah. I know that my brain, and Todd's too, like we're on these like three to four hours, and then thinking about what happens next. So I think that will be good to remember, just that there are going to be positive sides to it too.
THERAPIST: You know, the idea of being able to switch to cow's milk or formula, or whatever he switches to when you're done breastfeeding, you also don't have to give it up entirely.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Like he can be doing cow's milk during the day or whatever you choose, and nursing for bedtime, and then you've sort of gotten your freedom back.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But if you're not totally ready to leave it behind, it's still an option. Some people's bodies allow them to do that, you know, produce enough milk to be able to nurse one time a day and not have any problems the rest of the day. Some people's don't. [0:19:44.1]
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: And that might be something that's open to you as you get ready to step down a bit.
CLIENT: Right. And it has been useful to think of it in terms of like gradual. I think in my mind I was like oh, in March, like that's it, you know, like on his one year birthday, but that it doesn't have to be that.
THERAPIST: And it can be. You know, if you're ready to be done, you've met your goal, you want to continue on, you can.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: It will be painful for a couple of days.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But it also doesn't have to be that way.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Even thinking of like before too, like we can kind of gradually cut some out, but then after he's a year, to maybe gradually keep one would be nice too. So I think I've been thinking of it all too much in terms of like absolutes.
THERAPIST: That's similar to how you think about things in other areas of your life too.
CLIENT: I know.
THERAPIST: It's sort of all or nothing.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And this is just a place to remind yourself that there's lots of possibilities and flexibility.
CLIENT: Right, yeah. [0:20:44.3]
THERAPIST: I know you have other friends, it sounds like you I know you have other mom friends and friends that nurse, so you get these stories of how people have done it differently.
CLIENT: Right, and that's been really helpful too, to be able to talk to them. Even like the mom listservs that I read and stuff, there's a post right now about a mom feeling sad that she has to supplement with formula, you know? So I know they're concerns that are -
THERAPIST: Yeah, so you get to see other reactions too, and you probably get a lot of positive responses.
CLIENT: Yeah, definitely. So we'll see how it goes.
THERAPIST: It really has been a journey for you.
CLIENT: I know, yeah, yeah. It's funny, because I feel like this is something I wasn't thinking about at all when I was pregnant, like then. I was like oh, I know I want to breastfeed and that's kind of all I thought about, and then just realizing that there are such wonderful parts of it, but that it's so hard too, is not what I anticipated at all, and for this amount of time. I think that some of my friends that really struggled, they struggled at the beginning and then they're like, "Oh, and then it gets better." And I think for me that was hard too, because we definitely have times when it's better, but it hasn't been like oh, we made it over this hump and then it was fine. [0:22:00.5]
THERAPIST: Yeah. It sounds like from your description, he's never been a kid that just absolutely loves it.
CLIENT: No, yeah.
THERAPIST: And some kids do, and that, you know, it doesn't say anything at all about you.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: That's just his personality or something, and you never know what it's going to be like.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: You could have a completely different experience if you have another child and nurse with another child. You just don't know. It will be interesting for you particularly, because you're someone who has such a love of planning, and to be able to set your expectations and know how you're going to meet those expectations, has been something that has worked really well for in so many areas. Parenting is just really going to stretch you, because so much of it is out of your control. There's lots that you can learn and there's lots that you can think about, about what you like to do, but he's going to have his own will.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: I think it's actually you know, it will be frustrating of course at times, but I think it will also be really helpful to you, because as you get stretched with him and in your role as a parent, you're going to be able to apply that to other areas of your life too. [0:23:10.9]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: You'll get, I think a lot more comfortable with things not necessarily going the way that you anticipated, and being able to accommodate and adjust to an unexpected path.
CLIENT: Yeah. I think it will be good for me. (chuckles) And even this, like I have been trying to be better about it too, you know, like I think there are times when I got so upset about nursing, and then it would get better, and then the next time I'd get a little bit better. I feel like I kind of just -
THERAPIST: Yeah, sort of less intensely when it didn't go the way you wanted it to.
CLIENT: Right. But I feel like this past time it did hit me intensely and I was kind of like almost feeling like I overreacted, you know? But I think it was just the combination of us being so busy and him not sleeping well and us not sleeping well.
THERAPIST: Well, and being in your own space. I mean, you see how it affects him, and he just, you know, is right out there with what's affecting him. But it's also affecting you that way.
CLIENT: Yeah. [0:24:10.5]
THERAPIST: You're also not in your own space and not in your own bed, and not sleeping as well if he's not sleeping as well, and you don't get to act it out the way that he does, but it does affect you.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: The holidays are wonderful in that you get to travel and see people and it's exciting, but it's also very disruptive.
CLIENT: Yeah, and I think I just didn't think about it. I was just looking forward to seeing everyone, and I love Christmas anyway, so I was just excited for his first Christmas, that I didn't really think about the logistics of it all and how it is a lot harder now to travel with a baby.
THERAPIST: And it's harder then. You've made some trips with him but the older he gets, actually the harder it gets, sort of up to a point, and then it goes back.
CLIENT: Okay, good.
THERAPIST: Then you start needing less gear eventually.
CLIENT: I know, we just feel like I mean, Todd was like, "All I do is pack and unpack the car." So, yeah, it will be nice. We're not going anywhere this weekend, which will be nice. I think it's the first weekend we'll actually be home. [0:25:11.2]
THERAPIST: Wow. That's a lot of weekends in a row that you were out.
CLIENT: I know, yeah.
THERAPIST: It sounds like you actually fared pretty well.
CLIENT: I think we did okay, yeah.
THERAPIST: When do you actually start back to classes?
CLIENT: So, we do like class shopping, and then that next week is when classes start. So I'll just be a teaching assistant for that one class, with Ryan, who I used to work with. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm a little it's hard because he definitely relies on his TFs and me.
THERAPIST: He's the man with whom you have to set good boundaries, as I recall.
CLIENT: Exactly. And he knows, like at least I feel like there are some people that put too much on you and they don't realize that they do, and he is well aware of it and is so appreciative of it, but I feel like that's going to be one thing I'll need to make sure, like already I can see him leaning a little bit and needing to be liked, "Well that's something you can do too." Or just trying to like figure out. And I also think [0:26:19.8]
THERAPIST: So where you can kind of push back.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And I also am wondering, like it's just hard because this semester is going to be so different.
THERAPIST: Because you'll be away at the school one day, teaching, and then your own research, right?
CLIENT: Right. And so I'm still waiting to get everything in place to get into the school too, so this is like kind of a weird, like waiting game, and it sounds like I have to get my proposal approved by my committee, and then I have to do a whole IRB process to get permissions and everything. And then, the Public Schools does their own kind of IRB process for permission. So there is like lots out of my control right now, and so I feel like -
THERAPIST: Yeah, it's just waiting to get responses.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And you can't necessarily do anything to push it along.
CLIENT: Do anything, yeah. So I feel like this is going to be another test of my patience in a sense, because right now all I really have lined up is teaching, as a teaching assistant, and then I have this little side project I'm doing for work, to make some more money, which is good. But I kind of was looking at this semester as like oh, I'm really going to push forward on my qualifying paper, like I can collect all my data. [0:27:30.6]
THERAPIST: But you can't do that until the school...
CLIENT: I know. So I feel like it's going to be hard for me to...
THERAPIST: Is there any sense of a timeline? I mean, do they do their IRB evaluations like once a month?
CLIENT: Yeah. So, I'm going to submit, hopefully by January 23rd, and then I'll hear back in a month. So hopefully, I would be able to get in by February or March, but then I'm thinking like that's going to be hard.
THERAPIST: That's a long time to four weeks, to sit around and wait.
CLIENT: Those months are going to be hard for me. So I'm not sure, like then the other day I thought because we have full semester courses that we can take, or we can take modules that are half a semester, and I only have half a course left in terms of my coursework, and I wasn't even going to take a course, because you can kind of finish it whenever. I was thinking, like even if I'm working on my dissertation and want to learn about a new method, like in a couple years, I could take that last one. But now part of me is thinking, I wonder if I should just take a module.
THERAPIST: (crosstalk; inaudible).
CLIENT: Because I feel like I'll be antsy in a sense, you know, like if I have childcare lined up for Trae and I'm not so like... Or, I could get approved quicker than I think, and maybe I could go in sooner than I think, but it's weird to not really be able to -
THERAPIST: Being able to envision. [0:28:43.7]
CLIENT: I know, but then that just feels yeah, I mean I was thinking about that, but I'm like, I won't know what to do with myself if I actually have time for myself.
THERAPIST: We could probably figure out some things you could do.
CLIENT: Yes. I don't think it would be totally bad if I had to -
THERAPIST: Yeah, recoup some of that lost time, because there was you know, hen he was younger and you couldn't find time to get a haircut.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Because there wasn't any. So maybe having a few weeks or a month where there is time to go to the gym or reconnect with a friend or get your hair done.
CLIENT: Right. I do have a hair appointment scheduled, so that's good.
THERAPIST: Or take a nap.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: There's probably lots of room for kind of self-care and reconnection with yourself, if you have the time.
CLIENT: Yeah. I know, I think it's almost this feeling of like if I have if Trae's going to be in daycare and my mom has this time carved out to still be doing Tuesdays and Thursdays for us, it's like I feel this need to be doing something productive during that time, you know, like I almost feel like I can't let myself go to the gym during that time, because I want to be making progress, but I think it will be it's kind of like I'm just waiting for people outside of my control, so I can do my best to get everything submitted by that deadline, I think, but then I'll just kind of be waiting. [0:30:12.1]
THERAPIST: But if you're just waiting on their response, then there isn't something else for you to, and some of those other things in life are useful and valid, even if they don't produce academic work.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
THERAPIST: You've measured yourself in terms of productivity, by a standard of papers for so long, that you're forgetting the value of some of those other things that you do.
CLIENT: I know, I was thinking, even just like in terms of the calendar.
THERAPIST: Or being able to walk and go to the grocery store.
CLIENT: Right, I know, yeah.
THERAPIST: And some of those other things that you want to be able to pick up and can't right now.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: It sounds like, you know, the time between submitting and getting the response could be times to help out in those ways.
CLIENT: Yeah, that's true. And I think it is, because I'm like just used to the flow of the school year, so I feel like the beginning of second semester is coming, but like it's this weird feeling of thinking oh, my work isn't ramping up.
THERAPIST: Like you're not really in the semester. [0:31:19.7]
CLIENT: It's weird.
THERAPIST: You're transitioning into a different flow. It's going to be the flow of your research rather than the flow of the semester.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Which sometimes might coincide, but other times it won't.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Depending upon what your data collection is like.
CLIENT: Yeah. So it will be different, to have to get used to that I think, but probably good too. (chuckles)
THERAPIST: These are all challenges that are going to stretch you to be able to adapt.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I actually did go to the gym for the first time last night, with a friend, and it was so nice to be able to do that. So I feel like that was another reminder that it would be great to be able to find time for that. She's a friend that lives in our same building, and she just had a baby, he's three months old now, and her gym lets you bring a friend.
THERAPIST: Nice.
CLIENT: No matter how many times you went, like any amount that you want. So I went with her last night and we went for like a half an hour. [0:32:20.6]
THERAPIST: That sounds like (crosstalk; inaudible).
CLIENT: I know, it was great, I was like really? I can go with you like every day, and she's like yeah. But it was good, because I feel like we're both on the same timeframe. She needed to get back for bedtime too. We went, just went onto the treadmill and ran for a little bit and we came right home, so we were probably gone like an hour, not even, total. So, that was just nice and when I got him, it was just nice to have had that chance, like I really haven't gone for a run; probably like once or twice since Trae's been born.
THERAPIST: And that was a piece of your life that was really important.
CLIENT: Yeah. So that was nice and just kind of a reminder of it would be nice to figure out a way to work all of that in again.
THERAPIST: You might find it ebbs and flows. You might not be able to have it be a consistent part of your life all the time.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: But you might be able to have it for a little bit and then scale it back.
CLIENT: And just like once it doesn't get dark out so early and once the weather gets better, I think I'll be able to run with Trae too, which will be awesome. [0:33:24.8]
THERAPIST: Just around the corner.
CLIENT: Just right now it's dark or it's cold, and then when it was nice weather, he was, I thought too little.
THERAPIST: He was too little. But yeah, he'll be nice and strong.
CLIENT: I know. I think he would like it.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think most kids do, because they go fast.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I won't go that fast. (laughs)
THERAPIST: It's fast for them.
CLIENT: Faster than walking, maybe a little bit more, a little bit faster than walking.
THERAPIST: It feels fast to them.
CLIENT: So I think that would be nice, because I think part of it like when I'm away from him, I don't really want to take more time away from him to go to the gym, but if we could find a way that like my exercise is time that I'm with him too, that would be nice. So at least I know that could be in the near future too.
THERAPIST: And finding a gym that has daycare that they like to go to, is like key.
CLIENT: Yeah. I know, I should look into that one that I went to with my friend, has daycare too.
THERAPIST: I mean, right now you have some daycare, and I know for me, I tried out a couple of gyms to find one that my kids actually liked to go to the daycare, and it took a bit. [0:34:32.0]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Then I sort of found one and was like oh, this works.
CLIENT: That's good to know too then.
THERAPIST: I think exercise, when you can get back to it and fit it in, it's something that helps you moderate your mood, it's something that helps with discharging anxiety. So when it can become a part of your life again, I think you'll find that it's sort of a good arsenal, a good thing to have in your arsenal of being able to just manage the rougher times.
CLIENT: Yeah, it will be nice to figure that out. It was nice, because I didn't feel like I put pressure on myself to try and figure out a way to make it happen.
THERAPIST: Right, when you couldn't. But when you could...
CLIENT: But now, he's older.
THERAPIST: When it can. I think for a while, it's anxiety relieving to just take it off the table, and this is not a thing that I necessarily need to find a way to fit in.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: For people who are suffering from postpartum depression, then it becomes more important, like you need to find a way to do that because that can help with some of the symptoms.
CLIENT: Yeah. [0:35:35.6]
THERAPIST: But you didn't that was not your struggle, and so just taking it off the table when there is a million other things to be fitting in was the right move for you.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But now that you're looking at maybe having space again, it could be a healthy component, without making it feel like a pressured thing. Anything else that we should catch up on?
CLIENT: I think that I mean, I think that's everything. I'm glad that I feel like I've been talking to Todd more about just how he's feeling too, because that has been weighing on my mind too, and so it feels good that not that we hadn't talked about it before, but that now it's just like out in the open more. I think that that is something, like I keep checking in with him to make sure, and I think sometimes, like I let myself project what he's thinking and let myself get worried about it when he's not really thinking about it in that way. So that's been helpful. [0:36:37.9]
THERAPIST: Yeah, so making sure that you're not worrying about something that's not actually a problem for him.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I think that is like a moment when I was feeling those feelings of anxiety, as opposed to just being sad about nursing or whatever, because I can let myself like start, my mind wandering, like is this like, are things bad between us. I even said that. I'm like, do you think like, will you look back on this time and think like oh, this was a hard time in our relationship, and he was like, "What are you talking about?" But I think I was letting myself worry in that way.
THERAPIST: Yeah, where it will stay in your head and you forget to do that reality check.
CLIENT: Yeah. And it was like this moment when I thought of that, like I'm in like this bad place, and that's when I did feel those feelings of anxiety.
THERAPIST: Oh sure, because if you were, that would be anxiety inducing. But yeah, you wanted to make sure that you're not projecting worries onto him that he doesn't actually have.
CLIENT: Yeah. So that, and I think we're always good about talking, but I do think -
THERAPIST: Yeah, it seems like you guys have been really good. [0:37:40.4]
CLIENT: That helps, yeah.
THERAPIST: Well, let's take some time to schedule some follow-ups, because I don't think we have anything else otherwise.
CLIENT: Yeah, I don't think so.
THERAPIST: And then do some relaxation.
CLIENT: Good.
THERAPIST: Do you want to stick to every other week?
CLIENT: Yeah, that will be great.
THERAPIST: So that would put us on Friday the 25th, and I don't have the 2:30, but I have a 1:30 or a 12:30.
CLIENT: How about I'm just not sure, because Fridays are going to be the day of the course that I'm a teaching sub for.
THERAPIST: Oh, okay.
CLIENT: So, our class starts at 1:00 on Friday, so if you had anything Friday morning.
THERAPIST: I do. I don't that particular Friday, for some reason, but I normally will probably have some morning times, or we could also do another day of the week. I'm actually going to be in the office on Monday, the 21st, which is MLK Day, so you won't have started, you won't have class that day.
CLIENT: Right. [0:38:46.1]
THERAPIST: So we could meet then or Monday, the 28th, if that's a better day than trying to juggle around your class.
CLIENT: Let's see, maybe Monday the 28th would probably be good.
THERAPIST: I have a 10:30.
CLIENT: Or, I'll have Trae though, so I'm switching so Trae will be I'll be with him on Mondays.
THERAPIST: One of your daycare days.
CLIENT: So maybe, actually the 25th, let's oh, but 12:30 was the earliest time.
THERAPIST: No, I can switch the hour. If we do 12:00 to 12:50, can you get there by 1:00?
CLIENT: That would be fine, because I the classes actually don't start until the following week. So let's say that and I'll just double check and let you know.
THERAPIST: And for some reason, I have some stuff scheduled that morning that I don't usually have that morning, and I'm wondering. I need to double check that. I have a lot of people obviously coming back and a lot of their times are changing. So whether they're really still there or not, I'm not sure.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: So let's say 12:00 for now.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: You'll let me know if you need to change it and I'll let you know. [0:39:47.1]
CLIENT: Great.
THERAPIST: I know that spot is definitely open.
CLIENT: Good.
THERAPIST: But I might have something earlier that actually exists.
CLIENT: I think that should work though, because I don't think that we've actually started. But then, moving forward, Fridays would be best but in the morning.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: If you have openings, and maybe we can figure it out.
THERAPIST: I will have lots of juggling, so it's very likely that things will shift. Somehow, it always works out, that people get what they need. But I will have a much more clear idea when classes are actually on the schedule, of what my schedule will be too.
CLIENT: Yeah, okay.
THERAPIST: I'd say about 75 percent of my clientele are students or grad students or something.
CLIENT: Oh, really?
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So we're all up in the air right now.
THERAPIST: Yeah, so everyone's moving.
CLIENT: Actually, I'm going to turn this off.
THERAPIST: Oh, and let's do co-pay too, before you get all relaxed.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah, I have that. Here you go, thanks. [0:40:47.8]
THERAPIST: All right, so I'll turn this off so you can close your eyes and let yourself settle into a pace of breathing that feels comfortable, taking full deep breaths, but not forcing it. You can start by scanning your body and just take notice of what your body feels, letting yourself let go of tension that you notice, taking a moment to become aware of your thoughts, acknowledge them without any judgment, and allow yourself to let go of those thoughts for now, letting yourself be present in the moment. [0:41:48.2]
And matching your movements to your own rhythm of your breath. Whenever you're ready to inhale, squeeze your eyes tightly shut, noticing where you feel the tension, and when you're ready to exhale, relax that, letting your eyes remain gently closed. On your next breath, clench your teeth, clenching your jaw so your teeth are tightly clenched together, and when you're ready to exhale, relaxing your jaw, letting your teeth come apart, noticing how the tension drains away. On the next breath, then you're going to drop your chin towards your chest, noticing what it feels like on your neck and your throat, and when you're ready to exhale, let your head float up to the natural position, noticing the tension drain out of your neck and shoulders. [0:42:53.3]
On your next inhale, you're going to shrug your shoulders up toward your ears, and as you exhale, let them drop, letting the tension drain out of your neck and shoulders. On the next breath in, you're going to bend your elbows so your hands come toward your shoulders, noticing tension in your biceps. And when you're ready to exhale, let your arms fall, let the tension drain away. Your next inhale, making tight fists, noticing tension in your hands, forearms and fingers, and then when you're ready to exhale, let your hands relax, tension draining out of your fingertips. Inhale and squeeze your bellybutton toward your spine, noticing tension in your abdominal area, and then when you're ready to exhale, relax your belly, let yourself take a full, deep breath. [0:44:04.8]
On your next inhale, you're going to squeeze your knees tightly together, noticing the tension in your inner thighs. And then when you're ready to exhale, relax your legs, letting your knees come apart. On the next breath in, you're going to straighten your legs and bring your feet up off the floor, noticing tension in your thighs or your hips, and whenever you're ready to exhale, you're going to let your feet fall, letting your legs relax. On your next breath in, you're going to flex your toes back toward you, noticing tension in your lower legs, and then when you're ready to exhale, you're going to relax your feet, letting the tension drain away. You're going to reverse that movement on your next inhale by pointing your toes down toward the floor, noticing tension in your ankles and calves, and when you're ready to exhale, let your heels fall and your feet relax, continuing to breathe at a comfortable pace, scanning your body and noticing any place where you've held onto tension. Think about taking a deep breath into that space and as you exhale, let go of that remaining tension, let your body relax. Taking a breath to notice what's entered into your head, acknowledge the thoughts that are there and then let them go, letting yourself be focused on the present moment, and then letting yourself take a few more full, deep breaths at your own pace, memorizing this feeling of being relaxed, knowing that you can return to it any time you wish by taking a few deep breaths, and let yourself carry this feeling to the room whenever you're ready. [0:46:20.4]
That was a little bit faster than our typical. I didn't realize where the time had gone.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Hopefully, you got to let go of some tension.
CLIENT: Yes, definitely. It's been helping with nursing too. Like sometimes, if he's like moving all around and just like all crazy, I'll look down and my arm will be like so tense. So it's really helped me to just try and relax a little bit, because I notice, if my arm is like so hard, and then I try and relax, and he sometimes gets a little bit better.
THERAPIST: Yeah, maybe he sometimes might kind of follow your cue.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So, at least you're feeling better.
CLIENT: Thank you.
END TRANSCRIPT
