TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Where do you want to start?

CLIENT: So we're back from Arizona, which was so nice to escape winter weather. It was, like, in the 80s the whole time we were there. The day we got there it was maybe, like, high 60s and everybody was complaining and Todd and I were like, "This is awesome." One of our neighbors was, like, totally bundled up in a winter jacket when we got there. Like, wow. So that was really nice, to just have some time away and Todd and I both had a little work to be, like, catching up on while we were there but we really didn't have to focus too much on getting a big chunk of work done, which was nice.

THERAPIST: So could really just be on vacation.

CLIENT: Yeah. And there are places right next to a pool and Trae went in the pool for the first time and totally…

THERAPIST: Oh, how did he like it?

CLIENT: …loved it. It was so cute. And we took him to the beach. He was, like, so intimidated by the sand the first time we went. Like, he wouldn't even put his (laughter) n then by the end of the week he was playing in the sand and the leaves. [00:01:05]

THERAPIST: That's awesome.

CLIENT: That was fun. And I know it's been really hard for Todd's parents, because they just bought this place in December, I guess, is when they moved in. And they'll be there for the winter. And it's just been hard for them to be far away, I think. So I think it was really nice for them. I think it's more about Trae, not about seeing Todd or about seeing me.

THERAPIST: You guys don't change quite as dramatically and (inaudible at 01:29) (laughter)

CLIENT: No, not at all. They couldn't believe it, how much he had changed. And Jen, my mother-in-law (ph), came up just for the weekend to visit maybe, like, a month and a half ago. But still, she just couldn't believe it. So that was really nice. And just to have, like, two other adults to be running after him. (laughter) Because now he's, like, crawling all over the place and pulling himself up but so unstable. So you just have to be around him all the time. So that was nice that they were there to help. And Todd and I even got to go out on two date nights, which was good. So it was nice and I feel like a lot of the things that I was kind of worried about before we left didn't happen, which was also nice, that thankfully Trae has been so much better with nursing, which has just been, like, this such a nice relief. Oh my gosh.

And so part of me was like, "Great." Now when I finally feel like we're back on track we're going to leave for a whole week and I was just worried that that was going to throw him off. Because whatever we're in a new place it's just really hard. And of course I'm, like, thinking ahead too much and I was thinking. And then, like, if he gets thrown off for a week, being so, like, unstable anyway, what is that going to do? And he actually totally surprised me, which was so nice, that even we ended up having this, like, really long delay because we flew out on Sunday when it was snowing. So we were delayed, like, four hours in the airport, so I needed to nurse him there and he was even fine, like, nursing in the airport and nursing on the plane. Like, all of these things that totally shocked me. [00:03:04]

And then when we got there I just had, like, one day of being a little bummed out about it because early in the week he just it was hard because we wanted to go do things and I didn't want to just sit in the house all day so I could nurse him, you know, when I needed to. So I wanted to be able to not have to schedule around that. But it was, like, trying to nurse him the car when we were going to the beach or nurse him in our tent on the beach. Like, there was one day when it just really wasn't working n because it was early on in the vacation I started to get worried. But then he was like, he really surprised me. So that was just, like, this huge relief. And now we're home and it seems, like, OK. And I also feel like the pressure is kind of gone now too because I have a huge supply in our freezer. And so now, like, I don't think I'd have enough to cover us for the remaining weeks but I definitely have a good chunk. So all of that just feels a little bit less stressful, where I think I was, like, counting every drop I was pumping before making sure that I was feeling I had enough. [00:04:11]

So I still haven't added it all up. I don't want to know how much is in there but it just is feeling a lot better. And I feel like he's grown so much more and he just feels like he's getting heavier. Like, all of those things, like, I was worried about with him not getting enough and everything. I feel like I don't have to be quite so worried about that. So that felt really good.

THERAPIST: Relaxing (inaudible at 04:32)

CLIENT: Yeah, and even Todd. He's like, "I don't want to jinx it but this is just so much nicer." Because he's so good and, like, supportive of me that I think, you know, when I'm feeling stressed out about it he's feeling that too. And he doesn't get so worried about Trae not yet eating enough and things like that that's more me. But he's stressed out because I'm stressed out and…

THERAPIST: Yeah, he doesn't like to see you worried.

CLIENT: I know. So that has just been nice all around, to have that piece be off the table for a little bit at least. I think Todd's really counting the days till we start weaning too. (laughter) And then also I was just thinking, like, for myself and my sleeping. Not like I have trouble sleeping in new places but I was just wasn't sure, like, if that was going to be a problem and that was really fine too. There was, like, just one night where I got going to bed, like, kind of stuck in my head and I actually think it was I forgot that I wanted to ask you about this. But it was a nice that we had just kind of started. Maybe it was the night Todd and I had gone out to dinner. And so we left a bottle for Trae. So usually I pump right before I go to bed but I kind of stay up a little bit later so that I have enough hours between when I nurse him to bed and I go to bed to actually, like, make some milk. [00:05:52]

And so because he had had a bottle I'd gone a long stretch without pumping. So I got to pump earlier and we got to go to bed earlier. And I think because that, like, one thing in my head going to sleep thinking like, "Oh, this is the way" you know, of course we were exhausted but, like, "Oh, this is way earlier than I get to go to bed." I had trouble falling asleep and then it was, like, finally the time I usually go to bed that I actually…

THERAPIST: You fell asleep.

CLIENT: …got myself to sleep, yeah. And so I knew, like, I kind of…

THERAPIST: [You set yourself up] (ph).

CLIENT: …had done that to myself, yeah. But then I was also thinking when I do start to wean him, like, I definitely won't I'm just doing that one for, like, extra, you know. So I could cut that out really soon I think. But I feel like…

THERAPIST: It sounds like you could probably cut it out now because you have the stash in the freezer.

CLIENT: Yeah. But it's, like, now this feeling of, like I think it was the same thing, like, when I was so good about, like, reading before bed and then, like, not wanting to do that anymore. And now it almost feels like the same thing. Like, that's become part of the routine. [00:06:53]

THERAPIST: So you know it might take a couple of nights to adjust?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But it's not going to take forever. And I think there's also part of it that was, like, that excitement. Like, "Oh, yay, I'm going to bed early. This is my chance to catch up on a little sleep." And that probably, you know, it just got big in your head. If you hadn't looked at a clock and you didn't know what time it was, it wouldn't have affected you. I think, you know, part of because it probably wasn't such a big deal, you know. It's really hard to go to bed four hours earlier than you're [used to going to bed] (ph), you know.

CLIENT: Right, but this is, like, an hour earlier.

THERAPIST: Because, you know, your circadian rhythm does dictate somewhat when your body's ready to wake and when it's ready to sleep. But a change of an hour, if you hadn't known that it wasn't a different time, your body wouldn't have known either (ph). So I think, you know, a lot of it was just that you noted it n it and it became a big deal and then it got in the way. And when you go to switch your routine and, you know, go to bed a little bit earlier and not stay up and not have to pump, that might be a little bit of an adjustment. But it doesn't it's not going to derail you.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think just having that happen, then I was like, "Oh no," just thinking ahead again. So I don't want to be thinking about that anyway. But I was trying to think, like, should there be something that I, like, replace that time with too?

THERAPIST: And what do you have I mean, do you want to have something to replace it or do you want to go to bed earlier?

CLIENT: I think I need to go to bed earlier. I know we're staying up, like by the time I pump I usually pump, like, around 10:30 and then by the time, like, I get to bed we're getting to bed by, like, 11:30, sometimes midnight, I'll be in bed. Which just feels crazy because he's usually up around the 6:00s, is when we feel happy (laughter). You know, like, if it's in the 5:00s it's not so good. So I know it's just too late and I think sometimes Todd tries to stay up with me because he's, like, feeling guilty that I'm out there pumping and there's really hard [for him to stay up with me] (ph). [00:09:05]

THERAPIST: I think you can just replace it with an earlier bed time. Like, kiss your husband or something. You don't need to put anyI don't think you need a thing. You have enough routine. I mean, for some people it's, you know, brushing your teeth and getting into your pajamas can be a routine. It doesn't need to be a big thing. You needed a ritual to help yourself learn how to wind down and go to bed, but I think you've learned I think your body knows how to do that now. And now you can just kind of set your typical bed time and when you shift it, shift it by a little bit at a time. And I think that's all. You've got the skills to put yourself to sleep so you don't have to create an elaborate routine.

CLIENT: Yeah, which I don't want to do. I mean, I felt like I had an elaborate routine before and it just got in the way.

THERAPIST: And You were able to whittle that down to be, you know, something that was less demanding. So I think, you know, when you're ready to give up that pumping session, give it up, shift your bedtime back, you know, 15 minutes at a time and enjoy. Let yourself enjoy it. [00:10:14]

CLIENT: You know, [I think] (ph) what every mom wants is more sleep but I feel myself, like, just being hesitant about it just because of that. Like, I'm just so used to now going to bed so late. But I think it will be really nice. (laughter) And it has just felt unsustainable too to just, like, be going to bed so late when now I won't really need to. So I think that will really help in terms of us just hopefully feeling more rested. And so, that's another thing to look forward to I think. (laughter)

THERAPIST: And you do want to, you know, kind of pick where you want your new bedtime to be but don't jump to it right away because your body does, you know, you're used to your falling asleep later even though you might not be getting all the sleep you need. So, you know, figure out where it is you want to be eventually and then give yourself time to move it back 15 minutes a night because you won't notice that time change so much. And then you'll get there without having, you know, any potential kind of failure experiences, is what I call them. (laughter) But, you know, what you want to do is avoid that worry of getting to bed and not falling asleep. So if you move it just a little bit at a time, you'll get in bed, you won't know the difference, you'll fall asleep. And you do that bit by bit and you'll be able to move the bedtime back. [00:11:34]

CLIENT: Good. Yeah, we'll have to try that. Because I think I could probably drop it, like, now. But I've just felt myself hanging onto it.

THERAPIST: If you've got a stash in the freezer then, you know, you don't need to be creating more. You can if you want because you can give up nursing and keep him on breast milk for however long you want or however long you can freeze milk for.

CLIENT: However big our freezer is. (laughter)

THERAPIST: But you also don't have to be (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, it's nice that for so long I've felt like I have to be doing this and, like, trying to fit [in an] (ph) extra one, so it's just weird now to have that kind of pressure be gone, to figure it all out and the timing of everything. But nice. (laughter) I think it will be nice. I definitely feel like I have such a mix of emotions now, like, knowing that we're going to start weaning. And I feel like…

THERAPIST: Do you have a timeline?

CLIENT: Not really. Like, I think just start because it's a day. Like, I can start with his birthday and then just try and drop I've been reading about it and thinking, like, to try and just drop one a week and see how that goes. So I don't want to be, like, too dramatic, just for me, to make sure that I don't feel, like, too engorged or anything. And I really don't think it's going to be a problem for him because everything I've been reading is more, like, "Try and do it gradually for the baby too," and I don't think that'll be so hard. But I think that will be nice and then probably the last one I'll drop will be the night time one. And then I'll just keep that, like, as long as I feel like I need to. But at least then there won't be, like, pumping and everything else. Like, if there's milk for the night time one there is and if not then so I think that will be good.

But it is just like I think now, like, because the last I guess, like, since I've been here it's been so much better but before then it was, like, a month of it being really hard. So in a way I feel like that's made me feel more ready for it to just be done too. But also so thankful right now that it's feeling good right now.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you do have kind of this nice time to remember.

CLIENT: Yeah, so hopefully we can keep that. But I think because the pressure is gone now too, like, that just feels good anyway.

THERAPIST: It's been a really mixed experience for you. [00:13:55]

CLIENT: I know, yeah. Yeah, it definitely has. And I'm so glad that we have done it but it definitely has been a lot harder than I anticipated. (laughter) But it definitely helps me relate to my friends who are having trouble and who just had yesterday my friend has a lunch for everyone in the cohort who's had babies. We had a little mommy and baby lunch. Everyone's had boys. It's so funny. There were five boys, baby boys there.

THERAPIST: Wow, that's interesting.

CLIENT: One girl, who wasn't there, but of all the babies who were born. It's so funny. And there was one friend there who was having so much. I was like, "Oh, I know." And so it was just nice to I feel like now I can definitely relate to other people who are having trouble. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Yeah, because I think it's hard sometimes for people who have a very easy experience and they tend to, you know, people feel disbelieved, not believed about their difficulties. And it's just not the same for everybody. So you really do have, you know, having had these ups and downs [with him] (ph) you're able to really relate to a lot of people. [00:14:55]

CLIENT: Yeah, and realize that I mean, I think we had our troubles but one of my friends was saying, like, how she was so sore and she would bleed when she was nursing and all this stuff. So I feel like that, like, the uncomfortableness, like, uncomfort, I guess, of that. Like, at least that was just at the beginning for me. So I feel like we've had our troubles but they weren't anything compared to what some people go through too. So that was nice to get a little perspective too.

THERAPIST: You worked hard.

CLIENT: Yes, we did. Todd did too. Trae did too. (laughter) It was a team effort. So I feel like that was, you know, everything that was on my mind just with the trip and all of that. And then with school stuff is starting to, like, pop back up again too. So I've been working so hard to try and get I need approval from the IRB here at school and then through the public school system, where I want to do my research. And I finally got approval from the IRB, which is good (ph). I'm so excited. And this was kind of over vacation that I heard. And then I heard back. I have a committee of four and then I heard back from one committee member who was, like, I knew she would be really challenging, which is why I chose her. Like, I knew she would really push me. But she approved it and just had some minor things. [00:16:18]

THERAPIST: Great.

CLIENT: So I was getting all of this good feedback and then I know. I'll set you up. And then Ryan, who I've talked to you about before, he's the fourth member of my committee. And I kind of almost felt like the proposal for him…

THERAPIST: Ryan the main guy or Ryan…

CLIENT: Yeah, the main guy. And so he's also…

THERAPIST: Sorry, this is how I remember people.

CLIENT: Yeah, the one who married us. We have lots of connections. And so I kind of felt like for him it was kind of, like, a given. I wasn't even worried about his feedback and it was, like, so based in the work that we've done together and kind of on this new topic that I knew he was interested in. Like, he was the last of my concerns. And my advisor was almost like, you know, "You might not even need to ask Ryan to be on your committee because he's such a mentor to you anyway," but I wanted to have him on the committee just formally anyway.

And so I just got an e-mail from him the night we got back, saying that he really didn't like it. It shocked me. Like, I really was so surprised. And in the meantime I heard back from the last committee member. So now three of them have approved it.

THERAPIST: And he's…

CLIENT: So I haven't had a chance to…

THERAPIST: The one you thought would be your easy…

CLIENT: Yeah, to talk to him in person. And he started off the e-mail with (inaudible at 17:31) I want to talk about this in person. But I just felt, like, so disappointed. Like, I really I feel like over vacation I was getting all of these positive things. Like, I got approval. I have the I'm going to be dealing with the public schools after this meeting to turn in my application for them. Everything was just kind of coming together. And I feel like of all the committee members I have, like, I'd want to impress him the most. Like, he's means the most to me, you know, and his kind of, like, approval and excitement of it means the most to me.

THERAPIST: That's both professional and personal to you.

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah. So I just feel like this has been such, like, a cloud over me since we got home. Like, I just and I know I'll feel better once I talk to him in person.

THERAPIST: Talk to him and find out what it is that he didn't like.

CLIENT: Yeah, but it's just, like, I feel like some of the feedback that he didn't like is, like, in conflict with what I was getting from feedback from my other committee members. And I developed this out of, like, a whole research design class, you know, when it's the research design that he is uncomfortable with. Like, the idea he's fine with. [00:18:40]

THERAPIST: It may be that he's just too close to it in some ways.

CLIENT: Maybe. And another part of it is, like, kind of uncovering I think he's looking for, like, a different kind of study than I was intending to do. And that kind of feels disappointing to me too, that, like, maybe our valuing different kinds of studies and like, he wants more of, like, an experimental, like, where I have a control group and I don't really want to do that kind of work. Like, I'm looking to do, like, more of, like, a rich (ph) description of what's going on and more, like, observation and interviews. And I think he was almost looking for a more, like, experimental design. And I feel like I've just this whole year we've been reading articles about, like, the benefits of both of those kinds of studies. And it's just weird to think of, like, someone who I respect so much, like, maybe we will kind of conflict in this area too, which is just kind of weird to think about. And then it's been making me thinking about the research that's coming out of work is more aligned with what Ryan is thinking in thinking like, "Maybe that will be good to talk to him about different kinds of research that are possible." [00:19:53]

THERAPIST: Maybe this is actually I know last time you were talking about what would be a new role for you at work and the turnover that you're anticipating in the upcoming years. And I wonder if maybe this could be part of that role, looking at, you know, there is value to different types of, you know, research and different ways of evaluating things. You have a strong suit already, you know, some of the more experimental objective designs. What about using more of a, you know, rich description case analysis type of research to balance that? It sounds like you might have, you know, your work cut out for you in terms of being able to describe how and why this is (inaudible at 20:41).

CLIENT: I think it will be, like, a really good exercise for me to kind of defend it to him. And of everyone I'm most comfortable talking with him anyway. So I think it will be good but it just is, like, a bad feeling. And he ended the he can be really honest. And he ended the e-mail kind of saying, like, you know, "I think you're so talented. I really value your work and I feel like I owe it to you. I don't want this to be average," or something. Kind of saying like, "This is an average proposal. I expected more of you." I forget how he worded it but I was just kind of like, "Oh." That…

THERAPIST: That felt kind of crushing.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, even in our class that I help him as a teaching assistant, we talk about taxonomy and one of the things he says is every learner needs, like, I think he calls it a tyrant. Like, someone to really push them. And he kind of said at that end, like, "Not that I want to take on Bloom's role of the tyrant but I feel like I need to, like, step up my mentorship or something." So I know it's all, like, coming out of such goodness, you know, and that I do have such a good mentor.

THERAPIST: You don't really want him to be your tyrant either.

CLIENT: No, I don't.

THERAPIST: It's not the relationship you have with him. [00:21:50]

CLIENT: Yeah, and just the fact that, like, I feel like what I submitted to him disappointed him, when I feel like it was really good, you know, and I was getting good feedback too. And I knew there was room for improvement because it's just a proposal, but I was kind of sending it off to him, like, excited for what he was going to say back. And instead he just didn't seem impressed by it at all. So…

THERAPIST: When do you meet with him?

CLIENT: Well, I haven't heard back from him. So we have hopefully this week because now that's kind of the other thing and I don't want to let my mind wonder too much but I've gotten approval from the IRB and I'm submitting this thing to be schools for this exact study. And if he feels like it needs to overhaul (ph), like, do an overhaul of it, I don't know what happens then. You know, like, I don't even know if I'd be able to do it this semester, which I don't want to think about.

THERAPIST: That's too many steps away.

CLIENT: Yeah, but I kind of need to talk to him, like, as soon as I can. So I feel like at the latest I'd probably be able to meet with him on Friday before our meeting for a regular for our class meeting. But it is it's just like I don't know. It's a bad feeling. I feel like it's just been hanging over me. I have all of these things in terms of this project that I can be excited about. Like, I got that approval and I've been, like, scrabbling. I was just at the library, like, printing everything out to finally hand it off to the schools and then I'm kind of done with all of these hurdles that I've had to go through. But now I feel like I'm not even feeling good about because now it's like because he didn't like it. [00:23:27]

THERAPIST: What did you like about it?

CLIENT: Well, I was excited just that, first of all, that I'll be back in a school and be in a classroom and that I'm going to be observing two different units start to finish. So I feel like I'll really get a chance to I'll be in the classroom every day. Like, it'll just be nice to feel kind of, like, embedded in the classroom and gathering all of this good data, you know. And I feel like I had a nice balance, like I would be observing the teachers and interviewing them but I'll also be collecting student work and kind of exploring the student work with the teachers.

So I just felt like I had, like, a good balance of, like, different kinds of methods that I was going to be using and I'm going to be videotaping all of the lessons that I observe and kind of analyzing them with the teachers during the interviews, which I thought is kind of a new kind of methodology that I haven't done. And kind of thinking for work, like, that would be a really neat thing for them to do in their professional development. Like, I just felt like there was all this stuff in there that he would really like. (laughter) [00:24:27]

So I think I'll be able to kind of pull that out and, like, talk more about that. But I think it's just the fact that the kind of, like, the whole frame of it all, in terms of the design of it. He likes the idea and what I want to be looking for but he kind of feels like there's a better way to look at the research question, which just feels scary to think that, you know, is there, like, a whole overhaul I need to do. And I took a class to design this and I was getting such good feedback on it all along. But it is kind of nice. Like, I feel like it hasn't been I feel more just, like, sad about it and just kind of disappointed, but I don't have that, like, anxious feeling that I get when, like, I've thought of something that is silly to worry about that I am worried about. You know, like, it feels…

THERAPIST: Well, it seems like you really believe in your idea and being able to hold on to that and be grounded with it, that you know why this is a good idea and why this is a good way to work at this and to look at this particular question. And if you can stay firm in that while also being open to what it is that he has to say and why is his idea different. So hearing that but not having that necessarily devalue your own, you know, your own idea. This is nothing that you came up with on a whim. They're (ph) good. It sounds like there's really good reasons and a lot of research that you've done into why this is your study. [00:26:02]

CLIENT: Yeah. I know it'd be good just to talk to him but it is then, like, also this feeling I have of, like, I don't want to have to talk him into liking it either, you know. And I'm not sure if that will happen. And part of me just feels like if it does then that's OK. Like, I just need to go for it if I have approval from everyone else. And this is more just, like, a practice round anyway before dissertation. Like, my advisor's view. He wants it to be good work but he's kind of, like, let's just get this going. Like, you just need to do it, you know, and kind of move on to the most important part of our program. So it's just like I don't know. We'll see what happens.

THERAPIST: I mean, you want him to really respect it and you.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. And I feel like I have that. Like, he's so good about, you know, he's really open in how he feels and, like, he's always been so good about supporting me and saying things that he's been impressed with, you know. So it's good on the flip side he is really open about saying things that he's not but that just, like…

THERAPIST: But it sounds like this is the first time that you've gotten that side. [00:27:12]

CLIENT: Yeah. I know, and I was trying to thinking about, like there have been other, like, little things. I actually was thinking when I first applied to the doc (ph) program and didn't get in. it was kind of that feeling. Like, I remember going to work after I found out and, like, thinking about telling him and just feeling, like, so disappointed that I'd have to tell him that I didn't get in that first time. And it was, like, that kind of a feeling of, I don't know, that he's just been such a good mentor and I do feel like I have disappointed him. Like, I haven't lived up to that kind of expectation.

THERAPIST: [It's hard to sit with] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, and I feel like, you know, now that we're home and just getting everything, like, reorganized and getting excited about the project, like, everything. Like, there's nothing to be feeling down about but this definitely has just, like, made me feel like…

THERAPIST: Well, it makes sense that you respond to that kind of feedback. And not knowing exactly what the feedback is too. You know, he told you some things but you haven't gotten the chance to get a full description and a full discussion with him. So I think it's perfectly appropriate that you feel disappointed you did not get the response you were hoping for. And his response is a really meaningful response and it some ways its more meaningful than your other members because he is such an important person to you. [00:28:39]

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think I was expecting the opposite.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you were expecting it to be easy.

CLIENT: He's a given. I don't have to worry about him at all. Like, I'd kind of even forgotten, like, I was waiting for his response, you know. I was so focused on getting the other committee members.

THERAPIST: It's funny that that's often the way it goes, but it's hard to know what to expect.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I feel like in the long run it's definitely good. Like, even to meet with him I'm going to have to defend my idea. You know, like, all of that is good.

THERAPIST: [It's good] (ph) practice.

CLIENT: Yeah. And then I didn't really get that much pushback from my other committee members. Like, it makes sense that there would be something that I'd have to revise but I just feel like with him it feels like more than just something.

THERAPIST: Right (ph), it's [not just the revisions] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. So mostly I feel like I can't really it's hard like, I just need to meet with him and talk [to him about it] (ph).

THERAPIST: You can't change anything until you meet with him. It doesn't do you any good to sit here and hypothesis what he'll say or how it will go. You need to just breathe through until you meet with him.

CLIENT: Yeah. So hopefully that will be sooner (laughter) than later.

THERAPIST: What will you do in the meantime so that you don't spend your time trying to make guesses about what will happen?

CLIENT: I feel like I have plenty just to keep me busy, in terms of work anyway. Like, it will be nice to finally turn this in and then I have a bunch of other little things that I need to do for his class on Friday, to just be preparing. So I almost feel myself, like, wanting to do an extra good job of prepping for this week just to, like, I don't know. You know, like, make up for it or something. It is definitely a weird feeling but…

THERAPIST: I think it's maybe important, you know, not to assume that you did a bad job. Just because he doesn't like it or doesn't like something about it doesn't mean that you necessarily did a bad job. There's nothing to make up for, in other words. It's not that you handed in something that didn't look like you put time into it, I'm sure. It sounds like, you know, potentially he's got some different ideas. But that's, you know, scholarly debate is different than, you know, poor work. [00:30:59]

CLIENT: Yeah, we'll see.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry you have this challenge thrown at you.

CLIENT: I know. It would be but then I feel like then it all would have gone a little too smoothly anyway, right? So…

THERAPIST: Your dissertation is supposed to be hard. (laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah, I know.

(crosstalk)

Yeah, I know. So I guess this is good to -

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's part of the process.

CLIENT: Yeah. Get me ready for the dissertation part too. So I'll see. But it's like now I just feel like it's more waiting. Like, there's just it's hard to be so patient and I feel like you're relying on people to get back to you. And my advisor has not been good about getting back. So it's just like I feel like I'm just getting frustrated trying to be -

THERAPIST: There's a lot of management.

CLIENT: Right, exactly. Just trying to be patient through all of this and knowing, like, it's so time sensitive too that if I really want to be able to do this I have to get (ph) in there and just start collecting the data before the school year is over. [00:32:04]

THERAPIST: Well, luckily the public school year is going to [be a little] (ph) longer.

CLIENT: I know. (laughter)

(crosstalk)

So that's good, yeah. But I feel like it's hard. I have, like, my to-do list and I just, like, want to get that stuff done and then it's, like, just waiting is hard. But…

THERAPIST: And you don't have control over that piece.

CLIENT: Yeah. So we'll see.

THERAPIST: Well, is there anything else you want to process? I'm thinking we (ph) turn to relaxation so you can get in the mood to wait. (laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I think that sounds good. I think those are, like, definitely the biggest things on my mind. And I also I did want to ask you though, and this can be later, once we get closer to weaning. But when I've been doing all that reading about it I read that some women, like, experience depression or signs of depression once they start weaning. So then I was like, "Maybe I should stop reading too much about this." But I wasn't sure if that was just, like, their word for saying feeling sad, because I know that's normal, that I'll feel sad that, like, this time to be, like, our time together is done. Or is there, like, a chemical thing that, like, you need to…

THERAPIST: I don't think it's anything you need to worry about. So, you know, there are some hormones that get released when you breastfeed that promote, you know, feelings of well-being. You know, it's like Oxycotin. (laughter) So, yeah, that's going to change, you know, because when you stop breastfeeding you won't be producing that oxytocin that makes you feel good. But, no, I don't have any concerns. You didn't have any postpartum depression so, you know, I would be more concerned if you had a really difficult time postpartum. Then we might say, you know, let's watch carefully. And of course we will. You know, you'll watch your mood and you've got a really supportive network. So you might notice, you know, some changes because you won't be going through those cycle of producing the oxytocin, you know, repeatedly as you breastfeed. But I don't think it's going to be a dramatic difference for you. And it's not, you know, it's not that common for people to have an actual depression. On the bright side, you might also notice that your libido goes up. (laughter) [00:34:30]

CLIENT: That's a good thing (inaudible at 34:31).

THERAPIST: You know, that's a nice counterbalance. So that as one hormone changes it's helping you to feel bonded and warm and connected, other hormones that are (ph) being suppressed in the same way. So, you know, it's something that you pay attention to your mood anyway. If there was anything that was worrying you or concerning you, you have places to bring it. So we pay attention but there's no worries to predict that anything is going to happen.

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. Then I was like, "OK, you can stop reading about this. You don't need to, like, keep (laughter) searching for…"

THERAPIST: No need to. I don't think you need to, you know, be looking for anything scary.

CLIENT: Good, OK.

THERAPIST: So let's do we're meeting next week at 2:30?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: And then copay and then we'll let you relax.

CLIENT: Great. I've got a check in here somewhere.

THERAPIST: Thank you. (inaudible at 35:36)

CLIENT: Yeah, did you get better from the last time I saw you or is this something new?

THERAPIST: It's a new thing, I think. So I've had I think last time I saw you I was probably just getting over the flu.

CLIENT: And you had a sinus infection too, right?

THERAPIST: Yes. It's (inaudible at 35:52) and although I'm several days past infection. And then I had laryngitis all last week. I didn't have anything that went [along with it] (ph)...

CLIENT: Wow.

THERAPIST: This is just the remnants of that.

CLIENT: And your job depends on your voice. That's probably not very good.

THERAPIST: And when I'm home I have two talkative children. Sometimes (inaudible at 36:17) I need some time when I can't talk. (laughter) Like, I'm fine in the morning because I haven't talked all night (ph) but by this time in the day I've been, you know, talking for hours. (inaudible at 36:27) so that you can actually have a soothing voice.

CLIENT: (laughter)

THERAPIST: All right. So let yourself close your eyes, find a rhythm of breathing that feels comfortable. Letting yourself take full inhales and exhales. Begin (ph) to scan your body, noticing any places that feel tight or uncomfortable, breathing into those places and then letting go of that tension as you exhale.

(silence)

You can repeat that process as many times as you need to. Scanning your body, becoming aware of where you're holding tension and letting it go as you breathe. Also take a breath to check in with your thoughts. Notice the thoughts that are in your head, acknowledge them without any judgment, then let them go, knowing that important thoughts will come back to you as you need them. Right now you can be in the moment and let your mind be empty.

And let yourself use an image to take yourself to a relaxing space, real or imagined. Let yourself hold that imagine in your head, allowing yourself to imagine the details of that space. Imagine the sounds you would hear if you were there, letting yourself really hear them. Imagine the sights that you would see, letting yourself notice all of the details the colors, the shapes.

Let your body relax into that space, imaging what you would feel. What temperature it would be. What textures you would notice. Let all the tension melt away as you let yourself enter this calm, happy space.

(silence)

Continuing to breathe with (ph) comfortable space at a comfortable pace, allowing yourself to be in that imagined space, letting your body relax a little bit more with each breath. Letting your mind be empty of everything except what you notice about this space you've chosen to be in, letting that fill all the space in your head. [00:40:04]

Scan your body, noticing any places where tension may have crept back in, any spaces where you may be holding some tension. Allow yourself to shift however you need to, to breathe into those tight spaces and to let them relax as you exhale. If there's difficulty letting go of any of the tension, you can use the tension and relaxation that we often use. Think about breathing in and tightening those places even more. Exhaling and letting it go.

Repeating that process as many times as you need to, to let yourself be fully relaxed. And then letting yourself take a few more breaths. Holding on to this relaxation and letting yourself come back to the room whenever you're ready. [00:41:42]

That was a little different way of doing it. We haven't used imagery for a long time. I think we used to use it a long time ago. Were you able to get into a space that felt comfortable for you?

CLIENT: Yeah, it was nice just (inaudible at 42:00) Arizona. (laughter) Thinking about the beach.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's sort of what prompted me to do it (ph) for you. You had a ready (laughter) some ready examples in your mind.

CLIENT: Yeah, that was nice.

THERAPIST: Sometimes it's good just to practice different ways of allowing yourself to get to that kind of relaxed place. We use the physical (inaudible at 42:17) in relaxing a lot, so your trip prompted me to think of letting you use imagery to do it as well. Well, I will see you next week.

CLIENT: Good. And 2:30?

THERAPIST: At 2:30, yes.

CLIENT: Good.

THERAPIST: I'm pretty sure that's what we said. (inaudible at 42:35) Yes.

CLIENT: Great. And hopefully you'll be feeling better by then.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

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