TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: …either side of the sidewalk. (laughter) Like I said, I get (inaudible at 00:04).

CLIENT: Right, yeah. (laughter)

THERAPIST: So where do you find yourself?

CLIENT: So I have an almost one year old. That's where I find myself, which is just crazy, that Trae's turning one. Which I just can't believe. I feel like this whole year has just gone by so quickly and I feel like such a mix of emotions is coming w/ it. Which is nice, that I feel like it's all probably normal emotions nothing that I feel, like, weird, like, anxious feelings about. But just I can't believe…

THERAPIST: But it is a lot, huh?

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely.

THERAPIST: What is the mix for you?

CLIENT: I think I was, like, putting away from of his clothes and, like, pulled out of some his little newborn, like, socks and we found, like, this little newborn diaper. Like, that feeling that he's not, like, a little baby anymore is just crazy. But it's also really nice that I feel like as he's getting older it's, like, more and more of a personality that we're getting to know and that's becoming more and more fun. But it's just like letting go of the idea of him being this little baby.

THERAPIST: He's not going to be that little baby, that newborn, anymore. [00:01:13]

CLIENT: Yeah, which is just so weird to think about. And I feel like luckily breastfeeding has been going so much better, of course. (laughter)

THERAPIST: As soon as you're getting ready to feel comfortable with letting go of it.

CLIENT: Yeah, and he was sick last week and so, like, he just wasn't he was so congested so he couldn't really nurse very well. But he had been doing well, so, you know, before then. And then when he got sick I was like, "Oh, I wonder if we'll have trouble going back once he's better." And he's been great, even since he's been feeling better. So that is just it's felt so nice to kind of go out on a high that way, you know. (laughter) And it's almost, like, easier now to just, like, forget the hard times and I'm just trying to, like, focus on, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, focus on what's happening now. Enjoy it.

CLIENT: And so now it's made me feel better. Like, I feel like I can just approach it all so gradually too. Like, I feel like I'm ready to start weaning. I know he is and I feel like it's time to finally start taking his cues, when I feel like I've been trying to ignore them more (ph). (laughter). And wanting to get through the year. So I feel like I'm ready to start but it'll be nice to think that it can be kind of a gradual process and I can hang on to, like, the bedtime one for a while. But I feel like that's been emotional. [00:02:33]

I haven't really I remember kind of falling into the trap before I went to work of, like, thinking of like, "Oh, this is my last day with him." Like, I remember talking to you about it. "Oh, like, this is the last time we'll do, like, our little route for our walk that I love." And then, like, looking back on it, it wasn't like that at all. Like, I'm home with him one day a week. We do all those same things again. And I was, like, starting to catch myself feel bad (ph). Like, even last weekend I was like, "This is kind of like is this my last weekend day of, like, full-out nursing him all day, you know?" And I tried to just, like, not let myself think that way either because I know that I can keep the morning and the nighttime one and then the nighttime one for a while. Because I kind of did, like, feel myself thinking like, "This is, you know, the last before he turns one." And so it's been better to not think of it in those terms.

THERAPIST: I wonder if there's a way to mark some of those milestones without feeling like it's doom. There will be real legitimate the last time you do something, you know. Maybe it is the last weekend that you nurse, you know, all day long. But maybe that doesn't have to me, you know, it can be acknowledged without feeling like it's the end of an end. There is some loss and grief in that, you know, he will life will, you know, be differently gradually, not all at once, that something's going to be totally different. But, you know, when you look back at those infant socks and infant diapers. It is different. Those moments of him not being mobile and, you know, not big (ph) are different. [00:04:16]

CLIENT: I think we'll look back on those like, "Ah, I wish." (laughter) Yeah, but Todd was even joking, like, the other I think over the weekend. Like, we just had a nice day and then he was finally starting to feel better and nurse a while at night. And I just, like, started crying when Todd came in. We usually just read him a story before we put him into bed and Todd's like, "What's so sad about clap hands?" (laughter) (inaudible at 04:37) I was like, "I don't know." Like, I think I was crying because I was happy, I think, but, like, I just it was so funny that -

THERAPIST: Sentimental.

CLIENT: Yeah. All of a sudden, it just kind of, like, took me aback. I was like, "I don't really know why I'm crying (laughter) but I am." But I think part of it was just, like, a relief too that he was feeling better and wanting to nurse too. So that was good.

THERAPIST: It sounds like part of you is ready to let it go but part of you isn't. I wonder if the nursing kind of stands for more than just the nursing.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think it definitely does. Yeah, that it just, like, symbolizes him being a baby, like, a little baby too. But it is nice. I feel like I have lots of friends who have gone through this, so I feel like I'll be talking to them a lot more in the next couple of weeks too. I've already talked to them just to get tips and things like that, so I think it will be helpful. [00:05:31]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's really nice to lean on that support system.

CLIENT: Yeah. And one friend who keeps reminding me, she's like, "It's so sad and it's hard." She's like, "But then you are, like, free. You don't have to carry around your pump bag anymore. (laughter) You're not looking at the clock to be counting the hours." So, I think, will be really nice.

THERAPIST: What are you going to get? Thinking of, you know, partly, what is this thing you are giving up? But also, what are you getting that's in return?

CLIENT: So I do think -

(crosstalk)

THERAPIST: …more flexibility and freedom.

CLIENT: Yeah. I've started to because I've been doing, like, a couple extra pumping sessions, just to be trying to keep my supply up. So I dropped one of those and already it's like, "Oh, this is so nice." Like, I was so used to putting him down for a nap and scrambling to go pump, you know, and so even that has been good. So I feel like to look at it in a positive way [as well] (ph).

THERAPIST: And maybe use that time that you get back for yourself, to do something, you know. Take that 15 minutes and do something that you wouldn't normally have time to do for you, whether that just be sit and breathe and not do anything or, you know, write out an e-mail to a friend or call a friend or do your nails, you know. Take something back. [00:06:43]

CLIENT: That's a good idea, yeah. I know, because I've been thinking like, "I really will have all this, like, spare time (laughter) or (ph) down time."

THERAPIST: I'm sure you could easily fill with things that are not fun. But you've been managing to not use that time for work or chores before. So maybe steal that time back for something that's really for you.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, that would be nice. (laughter)

THERAPIST: You gave a lot of yourself to keep at nursing. It was a lot of work for you.

CLIENT: I know. It does feel good to have kind of made it. And now we still have some in the freezer so I feel like that will be nice to kind of help him get used to cow's milk. Like, it definitely did seem to have worked out when I felt, like, lots of different times wondering how is this going to be possible. So that definitely feels better. (pause) And I just feel like it's just been like, this time has been nice. Like, it's kind of both. Like, it's a little still weird for me because I haven't been so crazy with school and it almost feels like kind of like the calm before the storm because I know it's going to get really busy when I start collecting data. And I think I'm going to start April 1st, so it's coming up soon. And so I'm really excited about that but part of me is like, "Oh, I'm kind of getting used to this, like, lower key." (laughter) So that… [00:08:12]

THERAPIST: It'll be an adjustment when it revs back up.

CLIENT: Yeah, it definitely will. And it will be more time away from him, because I'm usually home with him on Mondays, but I'm going to have to be in the school every day. So it will be not quite as long days but it will be every day. So kind of getting used to that and we're going to send him one extra day to daycare. So just all the logistics of that and stuff.

THERAPIST: How do you feel about that?

CLIENT: I'm OK with it, because I know he does so well there and I know they love having him. So…

THERAPIST: It's a place he's used to. It's not like he's a adjusting to a new place.

CLIENT: Exactly. So that does feel good. And I feel like next year we probably will do three days there a week because I think my mom will only do one day. So it will be nice to kind of try and see how it goes. And we're going to switch back to two days for the summer, once I'm done collecting data. So it's kind of a short window anyway, so that makes me feel better too.

But it has been like, just thinking about this time, thinking like, oh, I feel like I need to enjoy it while I can because it feels like it's just weird. [00:09:16]

THERAPIST: So that same feeling as, like, that last week before you went back after tenure (ph) leave. (inaudible at 09:21) [soak up] (ph).

CLIENT: Exactly. It feels weird to have kind of, like, a manageable workload. (laughter)

THERAPIST: You haven't had a manageable workload for a long time.

CLIENT: No, yeah. And even, like, these past couple of weeks. Like, with last week with Trae being sick. I was home with him more, which was nice to be able to be home with him, but I didn't get as much work done. I kept thinking, like, "Oh my god, I have all this stuff to do. When am I going to get it done?" But reminding myself, like, I don't really have that much. But it's like so I'm kind of I feel myself, like…

THERAPIST: But when your time window is compressed it feels like a lot.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like, I feel myself now just being, like, a little antsy too. Like, knowing this is a downtime and having stuff I kind of wanted to get on top of. But then we kind of lost days last week and then this day my mom didn't come. So I feel like there are just, like, little things here and there that I've so it's like, I don't know, I feel kind of mixed about it all. Like, that it's nice to have this time but then am I, like, making the most of it too. But I think it worked out perfectly when he got sick, because I could be home.

THERAPIST: So you're not sure exactly what to use the time for.

CLIENT: I know, yeah.

THERAPIST: And it's interesting, that thought process that goes in your head, that time always feels very limited. It's this constant sort of equation going on in your head about, like, what are the moving parts and how am I supposed to be using them? Am I using them appropriately?

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely. And I think I still kind of, like, put that pressure on myself of times, like when I'm not with Trae I just want to, like, be as efficient as I possibly can to not have to waste time doing work when I am home. So now it's just been different because I don't have quite as much to do but trying to still make sure that I'm, like, being really good with my time. [00:11:08]

THERAPIST: So I wonder what would happen if you stopped evaluating and stopped, like, assessing whether or not you've been using the time most effectively or efficiently.

CLIENT: I know, because I am sure I know that I do that (laughter), that I'm always trying to make sure that I am. I'm sure nothing, like, it'll probably make me it would feel different because I think I always am, like, trying to make sure I am, like, maximizing my time away from home.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's like this pressure.

CLIENT: Yeah, but I think I'm probably going to feel better. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Yeah, it seems like you feel guilty about time away from him.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think I feel less guilty about it now that I've been getting used to it, but I still catch myself like, the other day I saw we went by, like, a yoga studio or something and I was thinking, "I really could be doing something like that on days when he's at daycare or with my mom. But I still just feel like that I don't want to commit to something like that during a time when he I don't know. Especially I feel that with like, when my mom is here because I feel like if she's, like, being so good to be helping us out, I really want to make sure that I'm doing something for school. Like, not to just do something for myself. But I [00:12:31]

THERAPIST: Have you ever asked her about that? Like, how she would feel about you using some of her sort of daycare time?

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't think I ever have, actually. And I'm sure she would be like, "Go for it." (laughter) But I still do feel that. Like, I'm just not sure when, like, that piece gets to fit in.

THERAPIST: Like, what the rules that you're giving yourself here.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think it will get better once the spring comes, whoever, you know. Who knows when that will come? (laughter) It that will be nicer because it's already staying light out for later. And I feel like then it will be warm enough that I can take him out for walks or start running with him. So that will feel nice to be able to kind of build in time for myself but with him. But right now I still -

THERAPIST: So what makes that more OK than having that time for yourself when someone else is with him?

CLIENT: Because I think then at least, like, I can take him out for a run and he's with me, you know, that instead of doing that when I'm away from him. Because I think I would feel like, "Oh, I should be using this time for work." Because I can't get work done when he's with me but I could go for a run when he's with me. So yeah, I don't know. But I do feel like it's definitely getting better. Like, I remember a point where I didn't even know when I could go get my hair cut at the beginning, you know. So I think I've gotten my hair cut since then, you know, and be able to schedule things like that. But it is still hard to just figure out when to do things like that. [00:14:12]

THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds like part of it is scheduling and part of it is, you know, whatever kind of rules you've imposed on yourself or the judgments you're making about how time is sort of allowed to be used.

CLIENT: Yeah, right, and they're definitely rules that I'm imposing on myself. Like, I don't know where, you know, where I even get those rules. (laughter) I don't know anyone else who has these rules.

THERAPIST: So I wonder where they do come from and what kind of beliefs you have about balancing parenting and work and me time.

CLIENT: I know. I think I haven't really figured it out yet either, for sure. Like, I think I'm still trying to I think I'm starting to get the hang of, like, balancing school and parenting but then it's like I don't know when the me time would really fit in.

THERAPIST: Is it even in the equation? [00:15:13]

CLIENT: Not really. I know. I mean, every once in a while I feel like Todd will be home with him and I'll go meet a friend or something but usually I'll schedule (ph). And I think it's also partly because most of my friends have kids too.

THERAPIST: [That's important] (ph).

CLIENT: Because we were joking the other night and Todd because he was meeting friends for a drink or something. He was like, "I feel like I get to do this more often. Like, how come you don't go out and, like, meet up with your friends at night as often?" I was like, "Because we all, like, are moms, you know. So I think it's just harder."

THERAPIST: So he has guy friends that are not dads yet?

CLIENT: He does but I think that it's the moms that end up staying home. We did do a mom's night the other night I guess last month but that just doesn't happen, like, as regularly. And so I know he would totally be supportive of that.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you both recognize that there does seem to be a disparity in how you spend, like, how you trade evenings or free time.

CLIENT: And then (inaudible at 16:10) part of me is, like, I don't mind it either. You know, like, it's nice to be home with him too so it's I don't know how much I'm, like, really I think if I were being more proactive to schedule nights out with my friends then I could make it happen, but I think we're all…

THERAPIST: But you're kind of hesitant to do that, whether it's because you don't want it or because you don't feel like it's OK.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I think that could be a good thing for me to, like, think more about now that he is, like, he's getting older. And I think also with breastfeeding. It was easy now that he was on a bottle. It's wasn't like that was preventing me from going out but…

THERAPIST: But if he's on milk it'll be even easier.

CLIENT: Yeah, it really will be easy. So maybe that will be something to think more about now that he's one. (laughter) Turning over a new leaf.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, the opportunity might present itself more. Things that you get when you give up nursing, that's one of those things, is that it becomes, you know, it's one of those freedoms that you don't need to be there necessarily or you don't' even need to carry a pump.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah, I think that would feel so different. (laughter) But yeah, it's almost like this is kind of a nice start too, to think more about just how, like, I can be even better about balancing everything.

THERAPIST: How balanced do you feel? So we kind of noticed that, you know, most of your balancing is these two things. There's not that me time. I didn't ask about couple time. But, I mean, if they don't feel like they're missing parts then that's, you know, that's OK. Maybe those things don't really need to be taking up much space right now.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I know, like, and Todd and I, we definitely hadn't had as much, like, couple time as we would want but when we were in Arizona we were able to go out a couple nights because Todd's parents were there. And now that my sister is here she's watched Trae for us a few times too. So it's been sporadic but that's been another thing that we were seeing (ph), that now that's it's even easier, just without having to worry about bottles and things like that, that we could be better about that too. Because that is. [00:18:25]

Sometimes, like, it'll be the end of the week and I'll just be like, "I feel like I miss you, like I haven't seen you all week." It just is, like, so busy, even though we are seeing each other. It just gets…

THERAPIST: But you're not focusing on each other.

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah. So I think that will be good too. And I know Todd would say that too. (laughter) He keeps saying, "We need to plan, like, an overnight or do something once Trae turns one. Maybe, like, the summer or something." So that, I think, would be good.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So that might be a way to conceal (ph) that piece of the pie.

CLIENT: Yeah. It just, like, feels like lots of things to look forward to, that things will change and there's a lot to look forward to. But I think there is a piece of me just thinking like, "Oh, I don't want things to quite change from him being a baby and to, like, almost a toddler either." And I feel like I've been feeling myself be kind of, like I don't know what the right word is. Like, almost, like, territorial of, like, the last days before he turns one. Like, even this week. And Todd's mom is flying up on Thursday. And my reaction to her coming, like, I totally surprised myself. Because we're having a party for Trae on Sunday and we definitely wanted them to come. But I think in my head I was just thinking like, "Oh, she'll join us for the party." But she's going to come on Thursday and stay with us. [00:19:52]

THERAPIST: Plus (ph) that's a lot of days.

CLIENT: And I felt, like and it's good because I can talk to Todd so easily about all of this. And I was, like, surprised. I was like, "Oh, then that means she's staying with us on Thursday and she's wake up. Like, she'll be with us when we wake up for Trae's birthday on Friday." And I was surprised that, like, I was so disappointed by that. And it was like I wanted that time just for us. And this is technically spring break, even though I've got, like, school work to do. We don't have classes, which is nice. So usually Friday is, like, my busiest day at school and we don't have class. So I was just like, "Oh, this will be perfect." And thinking, like, Todd was going to take a half day or something off.

And so I was like part of me was thinking I should be so thankful that she loves us enough that she's getting on a flight to come up here for his birthday. Like, that's really special that she's doing that but I think my initial reaction was like, "Oh, great." Like, I just I didn't want her staying on Thursday night for some reason. Like, it just hit me the wrong way.

THERAPIST: Yeah, there's something meaningful about there's something that you were envisioning about that actual day of being you and Todd and Trae.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think it was like -

THERAPIST: Rather than judge yourself for the reaction that you had, let's look at what does it mean what did the idea of that day being spent in that particular way, of waking up and having it be the three of you, what does that idea mean to you? What's the importance of that? [00:21:22]

CLIENT: I think even just, like, establishing, like, a little tradition or something. Like, my mom always used to set up our stuffed animals with birthday hats so when we'd wake up on our birthday, like, there was this, like, little stuffed animal party waiting for us. So even though of course he'll never remember that, but I was thinking like we'll do that and then we'll just have, like, a little time with him. And I know we can still do that but I just think, like, then it will be different because she's there.

THERAPIST: You've got a different dynamic when someone else is there, even someone else who is loved and included. It's gives (ph) a different dynamic.

CLIENT: Right, exactly. And I think we get along so well. I'm thankful for the relationship we have because I know that not all relationships with in-laws are as good as the one that we have. But I still was just, like, I felt funny about it. And I think part of me felt kind of, like I don't know. I think I felt, like, sad for my mom, even though she's with him two days a week. But I know she would have loved -

THERAPIST: This is a special thing.

CLIENT: to be there too. So then it's kind of weird thinking, like, so Todd's mom will spend this whole day with Trae. Does that make my mom feel kind of bad? Even though we've planned, like, we're going to do dinner all together on his birthday day and then we're having the party at my parents' house on Sunday. So there'll be plenty of time but I wasn't sure just because that [00:22:42]

THERAPIST: That it feels somehow unequal.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I feel like I have lots of, like, emotions kind of wrapped up in that too.

THERAPIST: So you're feeling protective of your mom and protective of your special family time.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I talked to Todd about it and he gets it, but he also was a little surprised that he was like, "It feels like your first reaction to her coming is being disappointed instead of being excited that she's coming." And I was like, "Yeah, I think you're right," (laughter) which I felt bad about, you know. And then it feels bad to admit that to him it's his mom, you know. But I definitely was feeling that and that kind of caught me off guard. And I'm still thinking that. And Todd and I talked about it last weekend. But I'm still kind of thinking…

THERAPIST: It still hits you. And I can see the tears in your eyes when you think about it. This first very special birthday not being the way that you envisioned.

CLIENT: Yeah. And it's not like it's going to ruin it or, you know. It's still going to be a great day. But I think was that I kind of had an idea in my head, right, and then…

THERAPIST: And it's interesting because somebody else kind of decided for you. I mean, the way you told the story, she decided she was coming up on Thursday. You didn't invite her Thursday, but this was her she planned it.

CLIENT: Yeah. And looking back on it, we could have been more proactive and suggested, like, "Oh, why don't you come" I don't know what day would have been better, you know. Even if it was in the middle of the day on Friday or something. [00:24:12]

THERAPIST: So you could have the wake-up the way you wanted it to go (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. And I know it's not even, like, a big deal, but it is kind of, like, hitting -

THERAPIST: It's a big deal to you.

CLIENT: Yeah, it is. And so once Todd realized I was kind of, like, upset about that, he was saying, "Well, we can try and take time just to go do something, the three of us during the day. Or, like, we can kind of carve out our own time too." But then I think it would be hard. Like, if she's staying with us for the day, like, you know, then I think that would make me feel worse in a way, to be like, "We're going to go to the children's museum but you can stay here by yourself," you know. (laughter) So I don't really know if that will work out.

THERAPIST: I think it's important to acknowledge what you're really feeling and not to tell yourself that it's not OK to feel that way. You feel disappointed. It sounds like you feel a little bit like she's barging in on something and she's kind of overstepping a bound. And so finding a way to try to honor a little bit of what you wanted. You know, maybe setting a like you said, it's not going to be exactly the same, but not letting that derail. If you want to continue your mother's tradition that you had or create a tradition, you can do that. And yes, it'll feel a little bit different, you know, maybe this year with somebody else there, rather than it being just, you know, your family. But not to allow that to derail the whole thing. [00:25:40]

CLIENT: And that's what I keep telling myself. I don't want to be, like, in a bad mood about it either. Like, it's his birthday and then it will be a fun weekend. So I don't want to, like, dwell on it either. But I just thought it was kind of…

THERAPIST: But you also can't dismiss that it's not going exactly how you envisioned.

CLIENT: Yeah, right.

THERAPIST: And that's a little bit sad. This is the only time you're going to get his first birthday too.

CLIENT: Right, yeah. And I think it's nice that we have so many people who want to share, but then that's also what makes it hard.

THERAPIST: He is yours.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. So we'll see how it goes. But it does feel nice that I know Todd knows how I feel about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, so you can maybe share and have a look or have a secret word so that you can check in with each other about it (inaudible at 26:25). This is kind of parts of this are hard.

CLIENT: Right. And I think it did it was weird too, because usually we're kind of on the same page. I mean, he loves his mother and gets along so well with his mother too but sometimes it's just hard. You know, when she's staying with us and we have a small apartment or whatever. But usually we're on the same page. We'll be like, "Oh, this isn't the best timing," or, like, we feel similarly about it. And this is, like, the first time that, yeah, that it just, like, felt a little different. Like, we reacted to it in different ways. And I think it kind of surprised me because then it made me realize how much it did mean to Todd that she was coming too. So that was kind of good for me to know. Like, I don't think I really thought that much about, like, what that meant to him that she was coming. I just thought about what it meant to me. (laughter) But I think that was a little different (ph).

THERAPIST: What do birthdays mean to each of you?

CLIENT: I don't think they mean quite as much to Todd as to me and maybe just because our families I guess his family's made a big deal, but he just isn't into it (ph). Like, for his own birthday he could care less if we're celebrating and I love celebrating his birthday. Like, I got all excited and planned something, you know. So I wonder if that has, like, something to do with it too. [00:27:47]

THERAPIST: Maybe some of it is about the birthday thing, but also I heard the planning word came up. And you clearly had some plans developed in your head, whether you had acknowledged them or not. And it sounds like you enjoy the planning process for his birthday. I think I remember when your birthday was, pretty recently, you had, like, an exam on it so you were celebrating a day later or something that was, like, kind of. You were a little bit disappointed not to be able to do it on your real (ph) day and so there's some meaning here to do the day and to planning.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think that's true because even now, like, my mom and my stepdad Todd, like, they love to try and make a plan with us on our birthdays or, like, right around it. And Todd's always like, "Why does it have to be that day? Like, we could see them next weekend." So maybe that is, like, something about the day to us that -

THERAPIST: But there's something special that you've always, you know, kind of paid attention to.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's true. So I know it will all work out. I feel like, even talking about it now, I can put things in perspective too, that it's not, like, this terrible thing and the fact that she even wants to come is a really good thing too, that she's getting on a flight and coming all the way up here. But I do think it was just because I I don't think I ever even, like, voiced to Todd what I was thinking, but just thinking of a nice, quiet day with him. So we'll see. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Well I hope you get some of that.

CLIENT: I think we'll figure it out. We can be strategic and make sure we get something like that. And then I was also I was thinking about last time, when we were thinking about using the jar, if I had anything to worry about. And it was so funny. Like, luckily I feel like I haven't had, like, too many things that have, like, popped up that I felt like would be worthy of the jar. (laughter) But I felt myself, like, being hesitant to even do it the first time. Like, there was one thing. I don't even know. It must have been, like, right after it was a while ago. But I was thinking, should I write this down and put it in the jar? Is this, like, going to start, like, that I need to write something down and put it in a jar. It was weird, like, minor (ph) reaction to it, but it also made me think I can't even remember what it was that was on my mind but I was thinking about what I would write and thinking, like, that's ridiculous. Like, I don't need to write that down. (laughter)

THERAPIST: So you were judging it?

CLIENT: Yeah, but in a way it kind of helped because I'm like, I don't need to write that down and put it in a jar. Like, that's not something -

THERAPIST: And did it go away? I mean, clearly it's gone away now because you can't remember what it was.

CLIENT: It did, so I think that -

THERAPIST: It's always interesting. You never know exactly what a suggestion is going to do and sometimes, like, if you brought home (ph), like, homework. And the purpose of it you know, it's not like school homework, where you know what the purpose exactly is and what you want people to learn from it. It's a little bit more ambiguous than that because sometimes the reaction to it is so much more informative than what I might have thought was going to happen. And yeah, I mean, so you find you use it in the way that ends up working for you. It's like [what presents] (ph). You're not exactly sure. So instead of being in a place where you can kind of put the worries away and help to evaluate whether or not, which is often something you ask yourself or at work you find yourself asking someone else, "Should I worry about this?" and it sounds like this process actually helped you to figure that out on your own, rather than checking in with someone else about whether or not it was worthy. [00:31:21]

CLIENT: There was one other one, because I told Todd about the idea before, like, anything came up. He's like, "I think that's a great idea. Like, let's get you a jar. Whenever you have a worry, just throw it in there and be done with it." (laughter) And so that one that I, you know, never needed to do anything about was fine. And then there was another one. I think also when Trae was sick I felt, like, just a little bit more, like, on-edge or something. I think just because we didn't know if he had an ear infection or what was going on. So that was an interesting time -

THERAPIST: Well, he's probably needier when he's sick (inaudible at 31:53) pulling more from you.

CLIENT: Yeah, because sometimes I would feel myself just feeling, like, a little not even anxious but, like, not like, unsettled I guess. And I would be like, "I wonder why I'm feeling this," and I'm wasn't even sure why, but I wondered if that was just kind of -

THERAPIST: Maybe it was just him being sick, things being off a bit.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so then there was, like, one thing that did come up and I checked w/ Todd. And he looked at me. He's like he said something that made me laugh. He's like, "You need to put that in the jar. Like, that's totally ridiculous." But then even, like, laughing about it, that was another one that I didn't need to worry about. So it has been funny that I -

THERAPIST: So you've got this jar that has nothing in it?

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: That's OK.

CLIENT: I haven't even chosen the jar yet. (laughter) But then part of me was wondering if I did put something in the jar, would (ph) then that be…

THERAPIST: Before (ph) you become too attached to it.

CLIENT: It's like I almost don't even want to have to deal with that, so I wonder if that was what, like, helped me even more, to get rid of the worry about…

THERAPIST: So that you didn't have to use this thing that you're afraid will become you don't want the jar to become another obsession.

CLIENT: Yeah, like with having to read before I went to bed or things like that. Like, it feels so much nicer now, not to have to worry about that, so I was wondering. [00:33:08]

THERAPIST: It's interesting. So my expectation or hope for you is that it would become a tool, an option a tool that you could use if you needed it. And your fear is that it'll become, you know, like a necessary part of your day or a necessary part of the process to let go of any worry.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I don't know what would happen, but it's funny I feel like that's what crossed my mind first, instead of thinking like, oh, this is a -

THERAPIST: What if this becomes a need?

CLIENT: Yeah. So I don't know. I'll have to see. (inaudible at 33:44) something…

THERAPIST: Well it's not, you know, not an obligation. You don't have to ever use the jar.

CLIENT: But having that thought of, "Should I put this in a jar?" Maybe that's all I need. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Maybe that's enough. Having that as it could be an option if you needed it you don't have to use it. But if there ever feels a time where you can't let something go by checking, then maybe it is something you use then.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think that was probably part of it too, that I kind of knew they were worries that popped up that were (ph) (inaudible at 34:11).

THERAPIST: Because there's no requirement to fill the jar (inaudible at 34:14).

CLIENT: Yes, that's good. (laughter) Good.

THERAPIST: That's a nice thought, for anything that you use. Here's an option that you have, you know, whether it be you know, if you're having trouble falling asleep reading sometimes helps you. So there's an option. It's not something that has to be part of the routine. But it's a tool you can take out if you need it, but it doesn't mean that you need to be using it all the time. And this could be the same way.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I still have found myself with that pumping session before bed. I still haven't cut that, when I know that I probably could by now. But -

THERAPIST: But something's making you hold on to it.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think part of it too is, like, knowing the more I can get in the freezer the better, so I might as well, while the pump is still out, I might as well just keep that, like, until. But now it's, like, until Friday. Like, you know, I don't want to have to be pumping once he turns one. That was my goal, then (ph) I'm done with the pumping. But I think it's funny that I've been really hesitant to drop that one. And I think part of it is, like, oh, I want to keep storing up the milk but I think another part of it is, like, oh, just going to disrupt my routine? [00:35:25]

THERAPIST: It's become part of your routine.

CLIENT: Yeah, and we talked about that last time, that, like, because I'm pumping then I end up going to bed so much later. So then that will just kind of change everything, which I think going to bed earlier is going to be so much better for us.

THERAPIST: And I think you'll probably find you'll enjoy the extra sleep. When you let yourself have it you will probably enjoy it.

CLIENT: I think I definitely will. And Todd is so good to usually stay up with me too and I know he will too, but…

THERAPIST: What if you just cut your pumping session down a bit? Rather than feeling like it's all or nothing. What if you pumped for a few less minutes? Or, you know, I don't know if you do a certain number of ounces. Cut down the ounces. What if you let yourself, rather than thinking you have to either give up the whole thing or keep it the way it is, what about giving yourself the option of altering it?

CLIENT: Yeah, that's a really good idea, because I think that would be fine. And I know not pumping, like, that I would be fine getting to sleep. But I think it's just, like, funny that it has just been on my mind, wondering what that would do, to just change things up. [00:36:27]

THERAPIST: Well, and there is a lot of change that you can't control and this is a change that is in your control. You get to decide when you change this and how you change it. And there's a lot of things that are going to be changing that you're not going to be able to control. They're going to change and you're going to adjust to it. But this is, you know, pumping, how you give up nursing those are things you have some control over.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's true. But I think that's a good idea, to at least, like, cut down a little bit on the time.

THERAPIST: It might feel less scary that way, to have it be gradual.

CLIENT: And it probably will be better for me, like, weaning wise anyways. (laughter) So it's probably (inaudible at 37:08).

THERAPIST: You know, some people have a really easy time with it. You're not going to know how your body's going to adjust.

CLIENT: I'm hoping it will be fine, because I feel like I'm not really producing a ton of milk right now anyway. I think my body is saying too, like, "It's time to be done," which feels good. Like, I think if I was still producing tons and tons of milk, like, would I be second-guessing myself? But it feels like on both sides, like, with Trae and with me. Physically, I think it's ready. It's just emotionally am I ready but, yeah. But I think all in all we're ready. (laughter) I know Todd's really ready too, to just, like, move past this phase and enter a new one.

THERAPIST: Well, I hope it will be a lot of fun for you, that there will be lots of good parts (ph).

CLIENT: Yes, me too.

THERAPIST: Anything else we should catch up on? [You want] (ph) to do some relaxation?

CLIENT: Yeah, I think that was everything. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Let me just check our schedule, because I know it's been…

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, I wanted to ask you too. [00:38:10]

THERAPIST: I've been realizing how soon April's approaching and making sure people have their spots. I think we were good [on that] (ph). So I have you for the 2nd at 3:30. So we did schedule for April, it looks like. And the 16th at 2:30.

CLIENT: So I know the 16th will definitely work. The 2nd, the only thing I'm not sure of is if I'd be able to get because I'd be at the school and I'm not sure what my (inaudible at 38:44) time was going to be, and that might be cutting it a little close. Because I didn't even know what the hours of the classes were, but now I do know that. So if there's anything later….

THERAPIST: I don't have anything that day. I have some (pause) I have some time on Friday the 5th. But you're at the school.

CLIENT: Well, that day I'm here but that's when I have the class that I am a teaching fellow for.

THERAPIST: I have an 11:30 and a 12:30 does that conflict with your class?

CLIENT: Yeah, but that's on (pause) I know it's hard, because now that I do know the hours of the school I think, like, later would be better. (pause) Or we could try, like… [00:39:39]

THERAPIST: I'm trying to see if I can finagle (ph) a later spot for you on Mondays and I don't know that I'm going to be able to do it. Let me see (pause) let me see if oh, wait. So on the 2nd… so why does the 16th work?

CLIENT: Because it's April vacation. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Oh, I'm like…

CLIENT: I don't have to worry about the school.

THERAPIST: Let me see if somebody who comes after you on Tuesday the 2nd can flip-flop with you. Because the one after that is a 4:20. Would that be -

CLIENT: [That would be] (ph) plenty of time.

THERAPIST: Let me see if I can flip-flop those for you.

CLIENT: Yeah, that would be -

THERAPIST: Because I don't have a lot of flexibility in my afternoons.

CLIENT: And luckily this isn't I'm not quite sure how long it will be but I think it's only the data collection will just last, like, about eight or ten weeks. So it's a temporary thing, but…

THERAPIST: All right. Well, I check about that and get back to you. I'm going to leave you where you are for now, just to kind of hold those two spaces. And the 16th was fine, you said, and then…

CLIENT: Yeah, because that's vacation. [00:40:55]

THERAPIST: So then we'd be on the 30th and let me see what I can do, in terms of flip-flopping some people. Because I think that 4:20 person might have a little bit more schedule flexibility.

CLIENT: Yeah, that would be perfect then.

THERAPIST: Somehow yesterday I looked at my schedule and I was like, "Oh my goodness, I haven't figured out April and April's here and it's looking packed." (laughter) And so all of a sudden I wanted to make sure that I confirmed with everybody. I'm like, before I move things and give people spots let me make sure that everyone has the spots they need. And then you'll be done with data collection after that, right?

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm thinking it will just be through April and May.

THERAPIST: Oh, good. I'm not going to worry about May yet.

CLIENT: Good.

THERAPIST: Let me get the I'll get back to you about those. I should probably (inaudible at 41:50) hear back in a day or two.

CLIENT: Perfect.

THERAPIST: All right, let's get you a few minutes to do some deep (crosstalk).

So close your eyes. Let yourself settle into a rhythm for breathing that feels comfortable, not forcing the breath but allow yourself to take full deep breaths. (pause) And as you breathe, began to scan your body, just noticing any places that you may be holding tension. Taking a deep breath into those spaces and allowing yourself to relax as you exhale. Letting go of tension, replacing it with relaxation. (pause) And repeat that cycle of inhaling and scanning your body, exhaling, letting go of the tension you notice, repeating it as many times as you need to.

Allowing yourself to shift and become more comfortable. (pause) also taking a moment to check in and notice what thoughts you're holding in your head. Acknowledge those thoughts without any judgment and whenever you're ready to exhale let those thoughts float away from you, allowing your mind to be empty, knowing that important thoughts will come back to you when you need them. Now letting yourself be aware only with what's in this moment. (pause) And perhaps letting yourself imagine a place or a feeling of being relaxed, calm, at peace, at letting yourself relax into that moment, that place. Letting your mind become absorbed by the details of that relaxing space. Letting yourself hear the sounds that would be there and letting your mind see the colors that are present.

Imagine the aromas that would be in your relaxing space. (pause) Let your body travel there. Know what it feels like to be there. (pause) Notice any places where tension may have refused to leave or has crept back in and let yourself use your next breath to relax more fully into this relaxing, peaceful place.

(silence)

And working at your own pace, allowing yourself to take a few more full breaths, memorizing what it feels like to allow yourself to be this relaxed, to let your mind be in a peaceful place, knowing that you can go back there by taking a few deep breaths, any time you wish. And when you're ready, let yourself come back to the room, carrying relaxation with you. See if you can hold on to that while you go out there.

CLIENT: Yes, I know. I can hear it on (ph) the window. (laughter) I think I gave you my check.

THERAPIST: Oh, that's right.

END TRANSCRIPT