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THERAPIST: I’m totally bundled up because it was snowing and now it’s not really that cold out. I’m carrying around all these extra layers.

CLIENT: It’s hard to predict.

THERAPIST: I know. I couldn’t believe it was snowing this morning.

CLIENT: I know, after such a warm weekend.

THERAPIST: It was so nice on Saturday. We went for like a long walk to the library and I felt like it was just so nice to have a glimpse of spring.

CLIENT: Although we knew it was just totally a tease because we heard Wednesday or Thursday there was supposed to be snow.

THERAPIST: You’ve just got to enjoy it when you can.

CLIENT: I know. We definitely did. We took advantage of it, so that was good.

THERAPIST: I’m glad to hear that.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I felt like last week was such a long week because Trae was sick again. This has been a bad stretch for us. I think that’s a part of having kids that no one prepares you for is how often they get sick and then like how I just like –

THERAPIST: (Unclear) you. [00:00:59]

CLIENT: Yeah. Everything and you’re feeling so badly for them but then figuring out work and school and what to do and everything. It’s just so hard to balance it all and figure it out.

THERAPIST: You have less consistency than you thought you were going to have.

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And you feel like with him, this winter especially, he’s had like one every month. Yeah. This one, the doctor thought was just like a mild case of croup or a bad virus, but he’s getting like all these things I’ve never heard of. (Unclear). Now we know what croup is. Like all these things I never knew. [00:01:31]

THERAPIST: A lot of them you only get once.

CLIENT: Yes, that’s what everyone keeps telling us. So that’s good.

THERAPIST: And he’s like done with the infant mouth.

CLIENT: Yes. He’ll never get that again. Same with roseola I heard.

THERAPIST: Oh really? (Cross talk)

CLIENT: But I just like, he started to get sick not this past weekend but the weekend before and Brian was out of town so I felt like I tried to make it such a low key weekend and we were going to try to get together with friends but he had a temperature so I cancelled, I didn’t make any plans. And we were thinking of going home and I didn’t do that just because I wanted him to like not get sick because I kind of knew something was coming and then he didn’t go to day care on Monday and then the rest of the week he was out and had such a high temperature. And thankfully he’s so good. Like he stays in pretty good spirits when he’s sick. But he was up a lot of the nights so I felt like Brian and I weren’t getting a lot of sleep and it just was hard. I think it’s a harder schedule this semester, too, because Brian’s teaching three nights a week which is so demanding for him and also hard for us. (Cross talk) Yeah. Because I’m home with Trae and I love coming home and having that time with him but it’s just hard to do on your – like that time of night is the hardest thing really. Just getting him fed and bath and –

THERAPIST: And you’re just getting home from your day, too.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So you’ve had a whole day and you’re totally on.

CLIENT: So I feel like just by Thursday and Brian was good – we could have traded off one day and my mom was still able to watch Brian on Tuesday but by Thursday when I was home with Trae, like I just look forward to Thursdays having that day but part of me was like, ‘this is going to be such a long day like inside the house again,’ because he was still not feeling well and Brian wouldn’t get home until late and I just felt myself being like feeling –

THERAPIST: Restless.

CLIENT: Restless, for sure. Yeah. And so in the end it was still cold out but it was really sunny and my friend had called to see if we wanted to go to the library and I was like, ‘Trae’s still sick and I don’t want to risk you or your son getting sick,’ but I texted her back and said, you know what? We could at least go for a walk with you to the library so at least like we got out. Like I just felt like I needed to get some fresh air and part of me was hesitant because it was cold still but I just like bundled him all up and I think that was good for both of us. I was kind of joking like I told my friend, ‘oh it will be good for Trae to get some fresh air and then when I actually met her I said, you know what? It’s actually good for me.’

THERAPIST: It was probably good for both of you. I mean the temperature of the air does not cause his illness.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean, he had a virus.

CLIENT: Fresh air. Being exposed to fewer viruses, is probably good for him.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah.

CLIENT: So I feel like that’s a part of it that’s hard like when I am home with him like I love just getting out and doing stuff and not having to be cooped up and not seeing other people and so it was hard like just a hard stretch to be home and then have the days feel so long.

THERAPIST: (Unclear). [00:04:40]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) being off from school and be stuck at home.

CLIENT: I know. Yeah. Yeah. But then there are also times when I feel like we’re so busy and have so much going on like sometimes it is nice to just have to be home on the other hand, but that stretch especially I think because Brian had been gone that week so I just hadn’t seen anyone because Trae was sick and –

THERAPIST: You were feeling isolated.

CLIENT: Yeah. But I didn’t really, it wasn’t like I was feeling anxious about that or anything, but just something that I know (unclear) especially on that Thursday when I sensed myself like getting in a bad mood in the morning with Brian like just knowing it was going to be a long time before I saw him again. And so that strategy was good – just getting out of the house and being able to talk to your friend for a little bit and walk.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Being isolated is tough and a couple of days in a row feeling like you’re not out in the world.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It’s a little bit too much for you.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so thankfully he’s back to his old self now and we had a nice weekend of seeing friends. So I think now it feels so much better so it’s funny to even think back to last week when I was feeling just like -

THERAPIST: Such a difference.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Just being able to get back into normal life again.

CLIENT: Right. And I think just knowing he’s better, too, because you just worry and we thought it was croup but we weren’t quite sure because it wasn’t like a consistent croup sounding cough so they weren’t really sure what it was so now just knowing this –

THERAPIST: Whatever it was.

CLIENT: He’s back. So now I think we’re just looking forward to good weather when all these illnesses can pass, although who knows, (unclear) getting sick at any time of the year.

THERAPIST: Winter is probably worse. Partly just because you are inside so much.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And being outdoors in the fresh air helps to kind of cleanse, you know?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But when you have a group of toddlers inside and they’re all touching the same things and I think inside play for them at day care is just more swapping of toys and spit and when they’re more outdoors spending time on the playground they’re less likely to eat the slide then they are all the little toys (unclear). But I also think one of the reasons that you’re finding this year has been especially hard for him is that you’ve finished breast feeding so he’s not getting a lot of the immunity – you gave him a lot that year, and he’s much more mobile this year, so he’s coming into contact with so much more than he did that was within his reach, but now he goes everywhere. [00:07:10]

CLIENT: I know, yeah. And with him, he didn’t even get sick until he was around nine or ten months old. Like I remember thinking, oh we’re so lucky. We have like this baby with such a good immune system.

THERAPIST: You gave him such good immunity.

CLIENT: And then it slowly flew away. We keep saying, at least a lot of these things he’ll not get twice.

THERAPIST: I don’t know how much is scientifically backed, but I’ve heard a lot of parents say, year one is actually worse than the first year in terms of illness and I think you’re just exposed to so much more and a lot of people stop breast feeding after that first year or maybe some of this wears off and most of the immunity you get right at the beginning.

CLIENT: Well yeah, that’s been our experience too.

THERAPIST: So then a study of like three –

CLIENT: (Laughs) And you know he’ll turn two on the 22nd which I can’t believe so that will be like I don’t know what to think – another milestone although I feel much better with this one for some reason. I felt like turning one was like really hard and just felt like that transition from baby into toddler and now it feels like he is certainly a toddler now so it doesn’t feel like –

THERAPIST: He’s going through a stage quite as much.

CLIENT: Yeah. And so I think I felt so much of a mix of emotions last year. This year I feel so much more –

THERAPIST: It had a lot more built up around it in our culture really, puts a big emphasis on it and it’s hard to know how to respond to something that has so much hype whether it’s good or bad – it’s big.

CLIENT: Yeah. So this is probably a little bit more -

THERAPIST: Easier.

CLIENT: More relaxed. Although I’m still trying to figure out his party and where – we finally decided where we’re going to have it but now we’ve been like trying to figure out – there’s all these people we wanted to invite but on the other hand wanting to keep it small and kind of low key, so Brian and I have been trying to figure that out because we have a lot of friends who we haven’t seen in a while who have kids who live kind of far – not far, but not really in our neighborhood. So just trying to balance that. I’m not so sure it makes sense to invite everyone.

THERAPIST: What do you want?

CLIENT: I know. I think I do. The other thing is I think we’re having it at the Amherst Public Library which I love the idea of and I didn’t know you could do that, but they’re like an open space – it’s like a playground. And when I talked to one of the librarians she was like, you can certainly come.

THERAPIST: I’ve been to like a zillion parties at that playground.

CLIENT: Have you really?

THERAPIST: It’s a popular spot.

CLIENT: And then we can go inside which would be perfect like if it’s cold out. But I just don’t want it to be too big like I’d think we were taking over the place either, if it’s a library. So I think that’s like – whereas I think Brian feels like just invite everyone and we’ll see. Whoever can come, can come. But I think I have that hesitation of if other families are going to be at the library I don’t want us to bring in like a whole ton of people, either. So we still have to figure that out. But other than that I feel like it –

THERAPIST: Just pray for nice weather.

CLIENT: I know and then it all will be solved. Yeah. And we’re not doing it until the very end of the month so hopefully, (cross talk).

THERAPIST: You’ll have a little bit more of a window.

CLIENT: Yeah. But it is, it’s just so funny to think now we have like a two year old which I just can’t believe.

THERAPIST: Almost.

CLIENT: Yeah. It is just funny. It feels like it has this year totally flown by. It’s just crazy how it just goes before your eyes like so now it’s also like reminding ourselves to just be like enjoying the moment too. Like I feel it’s another reminder of how quickly the year goes by.

THERAPIST: What stands out most to you as a mom of most two year olds?

CLIENT: That he can communicate so much with us. Like I just love that. Like even if I say, ‘what do you want for lunch?’ And he’ll tell us and sometimes he’ll say pancakes and that’s totally random but like he’s able to communicate so much with us now and I just think that’s so cool. And like before he goes to bed he likes to sing Rock-a-bye Baby but he’ll replace baby with like all the things or all the people he’s seen like he’ll rock-a-bye like my mom or rock-a-bye Daddy. And then he’ll say rock-a-bye dinosaur or like teapot or whatever’s on his mind and it’s just so neat that now we have that window.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It’s been so much fun. And I feel like with me and Brian both and education too. Just to see how –

THERAPIST: To watch that development that we’ve been talking about and seeing it in other people’s kids.

CLIENT: Right. It’s amazing to see it all. So that part has been really fun. And not as fun now that he knows how to say the word “no” and throws food everywhere. [00:12:52]

THERAPIST: Another form of communicating. (Laughs)

CLIENT: Yes. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: It’s hard to be appreciative of those.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I feel like now he’s feeling better. It’s just nice to – I feel definitely a sense of relief that last week is over. And I feel before he started getting sick and waking up so much in the middle of the night I had trouble falling asleep, like the night before he kind of got sick, and so that – I feel like there’s always like – my sleep – is always on my mind, too. And it was just kind of like that one night that I had trouble sleeping but then like him not sleeping so I was just up a lot and then I think I kind of got into the routine of being up a lot. So the other night I had trouble falling asleep just because I was waiting for him and so I think that’s hard when (cross talk).

THERAPIST: Settled back. It’s a trust that this is routine and get settled back into the regular routine.

CLIENT: And I don’t even – the first thing that I did have trouble falling asleep, I wasn’t even quite sure what was bothering me but I just kind of felt –

THERAPIST: I wonder if you felt something was off.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And couldn’t quite put your finger on it because it wasn’t quite enough yet.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It could be totally random and coincidence. It may be nothing. Or maybe you sensed, kind of anticipated that something didn’t seem quite right and that was enough to get you off kilter.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I just felt like I was – once I am awake I let myself kind of wander and even our refrigerator kept kicking in and making this noise for like a few minutes and then it would turn off and then I got myself listening to that and thinking, oh, it’s making noise – I better fall asleep before it turns off. And then it would turn off. And I would think, ‘oh finally it’s quiet. I better fall asleep on this stretch.’

THERAPIST: Putting a little pressure on yourself.

CLIENT: It was so weird. Like we’ve lived in this house for like six or seven years and why am I listening to the refrigerator, you know? That same noise has probably been present forever. So now it’s like – even last night I caught myself thinking – it’s off now, but when I go to bed is it going to pop back on? And so I think – and I have been able to fall asleep since then so it hasn’t – the refrigerator hasn’t been too much of a problem. But, those kind of noises at night I think are things that used to bother me a lot.

THERAPIST: Because you’d be scanning the environment.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And so I think – remember we had used a tool kind of deciding what you were going to think about, what you were going to focus on? So if you give yourself something to focus on, something like going to your imaginary place or going to your camp and the cabin, where you know it is peaceful and imagining the quiet of being some place far away. Choosing what to focus on because when you don’t do that you start to scan your environment for things that might be problematic and that’s not – you can always find something and that’s not conducive to being relaxed. So I think just at a time when it’s a little bit trickier because you’ve had some obstructions or you’re feeling a little uneasy, is before you go to bed you’ve made your plan for like I’m going to take some deep breaths and I’m going to think about drifting off to the place in my head and then you just focus on that to soothe yourself to sleep rather that leaving it up to chance.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think I have gotten better than that. I think it was just an off night that I let myself like –

THERAPIST: You had an off night and then you had lots of real interruptions and now you need to just let go of that. You need to practice a little bit to get you back into your regular rhythm.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I almost found myself like annoyed with myself that I even picked up on that, you know? It felt like something, those kind of sounds I remember during like a few summers ago, like our fan would drive me crazy because the fan speed would change all the time like with the wind coming in the window like that was something –

THERAPIST: And you’re really sensitive to environmental –

CLIENT: That last summer that was fine. So it was just like, ‘why did I pick up on that?’ Like almost annoyed with myself that like here is a new thing that like will pass through my mind as I’m getting ready for bed – listening to a silly refrigerator, you know, like.

THERAPIST: Well, you get to be in control of that. It doesn’t have to be a “will I” it’s, ‘I’m going to let that pass.’ It’s not something I need to pay attention to, like deciding what’s most important in the environment and what you just let go. So you can notice it and choose to let it go. And trust yourself that you have control of that – that it doesn’t have control over you.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. And I think it will get better. It just has been a hard stretch of being up and down, up and down from bed and everything. So hopefully I can take control of it and it won’t be a problem.

THERAPIST: I have faith in you.

CLIENT: Yes. And I feel like there were like other little think of now, I let myself wonder – am I feeling alright about this but then I kind of got confirmation that I did not need to worry about it. One of my friends asked me to write a recommendation for her and it was, you had to respond to specific questions. And she had gone through this big surgery last year. She had brain surgery and part of it was, ‘what qualities do you admire?’ And so I had written in one of the sections how she had been through so much in the past year, just kind of vaguely and just kind of how she has this great perspective and all this and after I submitted it I got this bad feeling of like, what if that was something – her experience with the surgery was something that she wanted to be kept private. But she had a whole Facebook page about her surgery so I knew it wasn’t private, but it was almost like I let myself worry, should I not have made reference to that when I submitted the recommendation for her and I almost sent her an e-mail the next day saying like I was going to send her what I had written but I was like, ‘I think I’m being silly.’ I know this is something that she had talked openly about and she had to ask a whole bunch of people for references so I’m sure other people probably mentioned it even more explicitly than I did. So I held off on sending her an e-mail and then by the end of the day she sent me an e-mail like thanking me for the reference. And that just like felt good because I think that was something that I was worried about and it might have even been that same night that I had trouble falling asleep like just something on my mind that I knew like I didn’t have to worry about but I kind of let myself. [00:20:19]

THERAPIST: So I wonder what stops you from trusting yourself. Because you felt better once you got confirmation from her.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But what’s keeping you questioning your own instincts?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I think just because it was a medical thing maybe that wasn’t – and they asked about how do you know her in school but also as a friend so it was kind of getting personal qualities too. But I think I just second guessed myself on like if she was thinking of that as something that wasn’t for public knowledge. I didn’t know if I kind of overstepped her boundaries in sharing information. Even when I did write it I was kind of intentional about saying like all you had been through. I really didn’t say anything.

THERAPIST: You left it a little bit vague.

CLIENT: But then even that like after I sent it I was like, ‘oh, I wonder if I should have put anything in there at all.’ So I think just because it was maybe like I guess some people would think of that as a personal thing that they wouldn’t want to share but I kind of knew that she wasn’t thinking of it as a private thing, so.

THERAPIST: Yeah. There’s a lot of evidence that you used to back up your decision of what to write. She was open about it on Facebook. You did keep it somewhat vague so that she could spin it one way or another if she gets asked about it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: So it certainly wasn’t a thoughtless process for you. But there’s something, you’re not quite trusting and there’s you know – I can hear why, where the doubts come from but I guess what I don’t – what I’m struggling to understand is what makes you not a good enough judge in your opinion to decide completely and be at ease.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But you made your decision. You put it in but you still second guess it. And that’s certainly not – and that’s the case with other things in the past, too. This is not a onetime thing. It’s sort of a theme. You wait for someone else to give you confirmation that what you do is okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don’t know why that is. And I wonder if that was the night that I was awake and so I wonder if I was feeling off anyway, so that was a moment of weakness that then I did let myself latch onto it and worry about it. But yeah, I’m not sure why I can’t just trust that I judged that that was okay to (cross talk).

THERAPIST: I made a good decision in this scenario.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It might be kind of a mantra to kind of practice. Because there’s lots of evidence that you’re a very competent adult.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: And you can trust that – your thought process is good enough to make a decision and allow yourself to be comfortable with the choices that you make.

CLIENT: I know and I do feel like that is like the theme of like, ‘oh, did I do this?’ That like I could have hurt someone else’s feelings. Like did I do this and it has these unintentional consequences?

THERAPIST: What areas of your life do you feel most secure in? Where do you not need somebody else to say what you’ve chosen is okay?

CLIENT: I feel, I mean, just in our personal life, like with Brian I feel like I never do second guessing. I’ll just – you know, we talk about it. I can’t really think of an example. But that’s something I don’t ever feel like I question but then if I do say something or do something that might come across in the wrong way we talk about it and –

THERAPIST: So I don’t have to sit with it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I think it like pops up most with school, like school-related stuff like I second guess. Either interactions with students or even like with my – thankfully, I haven’t been writing many papers lately which is kind of nice because I’m done with course work but like submitting papers and worrying like if unintentionally like, plagiarized something or I feel like those are the things that –

THERAPIST: When you were working at (unclear) was that similar for you? Did you second guess the work that you were doing there or was that seen as a separate place for you? [24:32]

CLIENT: And you know I think maybe I did every once in a while but I don’t know I feel like though like I don’t know feeling that that sense didn’t happen until I started my program. I feel like I just can like – that first time I started being in – (unclear) I feel like I can just locate a lot of it to that, not that I didn’t have feelings where I would second guess myself or feel anxious before that, but I feel like –

THERAPIST: That is sort of questioning your confidence really feels like it came with that first semester.

CLIENT: Yeah. Which is weird for me to kind of like be able to pinpoint –

THERAPIST: It was a really unique experience to feel like so out of depth.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I think I like – there are certainly times before that when I would question different, you know, like different things, but I don’t feel like I felt the intensity of it since before that first semester.

THERAPIST: Somehow we need to find a way to sort of close the chapter on that semester because things are leaking out a little bit from that semester that semester that are lingering longer than they need to because in so many ways you’re in such a different place and have been for many semesters.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But that second guessing yourself, not being able to completely trust your own judgments in these areas is lingering.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I’m not sure why. Is it just me needing to tell myself that was a good decision? I don’t know how to make it better either.

THERAPIST: Maybe that’s the practice to get into – just start saying no I’m going to trust that. This is the decision I made. Here are my reasons. I’m going to trust it. To start practicing being your own validation. And seeing with that practice, can you let go of some of this lingering doubt and worry that gets in your way? If you weren’t thoughtful about your decisions then I wouldn’t be challenging you to do this. But you’re not missing that piece. You’re not making impulsive decisions that you’re regretting later. You’re making thoughtful decisions. Generally, somebody else comes along and confirms that it was an okay choice and you feel better. So we can skip over that period where you’re anxious waiting for somebody to confirm it because the history shows us that you’re doing a good job making thoughtful decisions. So you can affirm your own choice.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And that’s maybe, something to become aware of in the coming weeks. If you find yourself in that place where you are second guessing it to give yourself permission to say, no, I made that choice and it was a good one.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And see if you can let it go there.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think that will be good. Because it is, I think I just kind of let myself just kind of play that game like she didn’t want to share that or –

THERAPIST: And you can always create a bunch of what-ifs, but are they serving a good purpose?

CLIENT: Right. Like no, in know, I feel like I can let myself create a million of them and it’s not useful at all.

THERAPIST: I mean that’s often the test that I use in listening to the self-talk – is what I’m doing adaptive or useful in any way? And if fit’s not then letting it go if being –

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